john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Super Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Kevin the coolest car in ever made by humans, the Escort MkI and MkII in 99% of all their exploits beating everything in the entire world, it was done with leaf springs.... I am not suggesting you get rid of those.. I am gently suggesting that the leaf springs be controlled by shocks mounted in a good position and without funny angles that change drastically and suffer increasing or decreasing force on them from the angle change... Ed posted a link to roller front mounts---which is exactly what Ford did to mitigate the axle position change as the leaf gets effectively longer or shorter---which pushes the axle around which doesn't seem like something I'd want happening on any surface in a car I was trying to drive in control with vigor. So keep the leafs, just think about getting the position of the shocks so the damping is predictable and consistent (basically so that the shocks are near 90 to the links at the "average" position, or "in the most up and down portion of the arc that the stuff swings in" Just a thought. It may be different from what you've done in the past, and you say you've made the stuff work and you like it but that doesn't mean you may not like it more if you do it better--just like bringing the tubes to the tower is better than looooooooooooooooooooooooooong tubes going to a weak trunk floor (I mean come on man look at shit from a side view..trunk floor is skinny ass sheetmetal sticking way out horisontal...Draw a big fat arrow representing BIG FORCE at the very end of a long flat piece of metal----the longer the horisontal metal sticks out the more the BIG FAT FORCE will be able to deflect the metal... Now thinking of a tube 35-40% of that length and it goes to the vertical wall of a tower. Clearly its stronger and better for making the cage forces dissipate somewhere strong---and the shock loads coming into the structure (body and cage) to be dissapated or (the fancy engineering word is "resolved) into the cage...That is why people do that when they think it thru--although most just do it because that's what they've seen and then rationalise a buncha reasons why) But whatever. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
phlat65 Sean Medcroft Junior Moderator Location: Edmonds, Washington Join Date: 02/12/2009 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,802 Rally Car: Building a Merkur |
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NoCoast Grant Hughes Infallible Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
I think the bend will be biggest concern since most rule books I've looked at specify straight. Though can't say for sure on the road racing ones since I usually just look for what I have to do differently and don't really like getting creative with the roll cage. Creativity often leads to cutting in my experience.
Grant Hughes |
kwesley Kevin Wesley Senior Moderator Location: Michigan Join Date: 02/28/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 46 Rally Car: 1976 Dodge Dart Lite |
I had a bit in my response about the shocks and dropped it, should have left it I guess. The upper shock mount is getting moved to get the shock closer to 90. If you look at the pics on page 2 of the thread, the first still had the upper mount and the next trunk pic with the down stays has that area cut out. Will end up with something like this awesome sketch I just did... The wheel tub is even with the outside edge of the frame rail. Since the car will have the most tire possible for asphalt road course stuff, I can't do the turrets outside the rail and in the wheel tub. No room for the tire, unless it was a narrow gravel tire. The shock will end up on the inside of the leaf as vertical as possible. Not sure if they are going to mess with the lower mount or not. I think it is over far enough now to get it vertical. Hard to tell from the pic and I'm not there unfortunately to check it out. Thanks, Kevin Wesley |
DG_Rally Dave Grenwis Junior Moderator Location: Minneapolis, MN Join Date: 08/16/2012 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 125 Rally Car: '92 VW Golf |
To be clear, your back-stays end at the wheel well and don't have a bend. The offending back-stays that were on my car went practically to the taillights and had a bend (similar to those on Kevin's car above). Dave Grenwis - DG Rally - www.dgrally.com |
alkun Albert Kun Elite Moderator Location: SF Ca. Join Date: 01/07/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,732 Rally Car: volvo 242 |
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kwesley Kevin Wesley Senior Moderator Location: Michigan Join Date: 02/28/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 46 Rally Car: 1976 Dodge Dart Lite |
Mike Hurst approved all the cage changes, so sounds like it's good to go. I am having them put the "V" into the rear backstays since the roof has the "V" bar arrangement. Mike said it wasn't necessary based on RA rules, but NASA clearly says that element is required. So, no big deal, in it goes.
Here are some updated pics of the progress... Trans cross member... The rear back stay gusset... Downtubes in engine compartment... Upper shock mount bracing. This will allow the bump stop to be moved to the shock body. It was on the lower control arm and has always been an issue limiting travel when the car is lowered. Motor mounts... You can see my electric column in this shot. It will get a Saturn Vue/Corsa/etc... electric column, Howe Racing 2:1 quickener and all hooked to a stock 24:1 box. If I want to speed it up more, I can use a fast ratio pitman/idler and it will be down near 10.7:1. They've sorted out the under hood bracing... Mike Hurst took a look at what they planned for the seat mounts and signed off on those as well. Still waiting on pics, but should have some more stuff in the next few days. Thanks, Kevin Wesley |
NoCoast Grant Hughes Infallible Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
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Clayto Clayton McCrary Infallible Moderator Location: Olympia,WA Join Date: 07/04/2013 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 161 Rally Car: XRatty purchased. Now build it!! |
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Mark Lewis Mark Lewis Mega Moderator Location: Hickory, NC Join Date: 09/19/2013 Age: Fossilized Posts: 2 Rally Car: Searching for a build |
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alkun Albert Kun Elite Moderator Location: SF Ca. Join Date: 01/07/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,732 Rally Car: volvo 242 |
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kwesley Kevin Wesley Senior Moderator Location: Michigan Join Date: 02/28/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 46 Rally Car: 1976 Dodge Dart Lite |
I had my days with L bodies many years ago and rallied a Neon for a couple years. This will be way more fun and serve multiple disciplines. It will be quite some time before it hits gravel. Probably not until late 2015 or 2016 most likely. I am looking forward to tarmac with it though. That will be fun. Thanks, Kevin Wesley |
kwesley Kevin Wesley Senior Moderator Location: Michigan Join Date: 02/28/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 46 Rally Car: 1976 Dodge Dart Lite |
Still making progress. Should still be done in plenty of time to make it to the track this year.
Finished underhood bracing... Trans Tunnel and Seat Mounts. Tunnel is removable for trans service. Raised driveshaft tunnel... They have the fuel cell done as well, but haven't loaded the pics yet. I'll update once those show up. Major fab work is starting to dwindle down. They still have to do the electric steering mount, rear shock mounts, trunk floor, bumper brackets, dash and console. Not a ton left for them and I should have it back to me in the next couple weeks. Thanks, Kevin Wesley |
mke723 Mike Lindenfelser Infallible Moderator Location: Minnesnowta Join Date: 10/17/2012 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 154 Rally Car: 1995 Impreza L |
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urr Andrew Sutherland Godlike Moderator Location: Studio City CA / Camas WA Join Date: 02/22/2008 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 275 Rally Car: Subaru, EVO, Honda, Husky |
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