Electric power steering

Hi guys. Completely new here, but I'm here on the recommendation of John V. Whether that is a good thing or not I guess only time will tell!

Whilst I don't do rally (I love the sport but don't compete) I'm building up a car (1968 Volvo 142) and am trying to get around the non- power steering problems, as the RHD cars never got PAS. I've been thinking of using a 164 PAS box, but have been told the geometry isn't good- although as it's just a worm drive box I can't see how- so have started looking in the direction of racks.
I've just found out that the 240 rack is too wide so I've been toying with the idea of an Escort rack or the possibility of an electric power steering column.
I'm told it's a common thing to do over here on MKII Escorts, yet I can find no info on the idea.
As a mechanic my nkowledge of steering geometry isn't perfect (you really don't need it day to day!), but I seem to recall the ends of the rack need to be in roughly the same position as the orignal drop arms and thaat the arm angles need to be roughly the same as the originals to prevent bump steer.
This car is not going to be a rally car, by the way, but rather a street/strip hot rod.

I understand that Rally Anarchy is a site dedicated to the rally enthusiast but I've also heard that it's a got place to get real advice from people who've BTDT rather than listening to oft repeated and frequently incorrect internet mantra.

Any advice, insults or inspiration are welcome!!!

Oh yeah- hi John V, hi John Lane!

Hello Mark,

Lektrik power steering? I recall seeing such foolishness in BMW's but not much else. I've not worked on enough of them to speak for pros or cons on it.

I have dealt with the flurry of arms steering in those 140 series cars and can attest to just how horrible the steering is as standard. All that shit to wear out + the world's shittiest steering ratio.

Your understanding of things for preventing bump-steer is pretty spot-on.

I would cobble a rack into it with a suitable ratio. Here in the States we can order up racks out of the 'Circle-Track' catalog. Look at www.colemanracing.com for ideas.

I'd also bet that you are not the first on the planet to realize that the steering in the 140 is shit. You may do well to look at what others have done. Mebbe search the INtersnet for wayyyy bitchin 140's rallying back in the day.

Have fun with it.

John Lane

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JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

electric power steering is becoming very common over here on loads of small hatchbacks- it's unusual to see a new car wih a proper pump.
Most people seem to use a Vauxhall Corsa column and then buy a box to give a false speed signal to the steering ECU (now there's a scary thought- an ECU that controls your steering!).
I've been thinking about it though and it's quite likely that a Volvo 360 rack would be narrow enough- I'll measure one up next time I'm at the breakers. Besides, a good old fashioned hydraulic rack just gives me an excuse to put more braided hoses in the engine bay!!!!

I looked into the in-column electric power steering units a little bit after seeing an article in Racecar Engineering. The problem seems to be that in the states you can only really high end stuff. I could not stomach $6,000 for a steering quickener so I stopped looking.

It's getting more and more common here too, although they seem to put it in the rack, not the column.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Andrew_Frick Wrote:
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> I could not stomach $6,000 for a
> steering quickener so I stopped looking.
>
>


http://www.stockcarproducts.com/steer4.htm
I've seen it used on a number of rally cars.

Sorry I should have said I stopped looking at an electric steering quickener. I have seen the Howe Steering units on cars as well.

The problem with those units is that they are just a quickener and still require a power rack and its associated pumps and lines. The electric units combine the power assist and the quickener into one unit that only needs power. And then you can put it into a manual rack.

-------------------------------------------------------
> electric power steering is becoming very common
> over here on loads of small hatchbacks- it's
> unusual to see a new car wih a proper pump.
> Most people seem to use a Vauxhall Corsa column
> and then buy a box to give a false speed signal to
> the steering ECU (now there's a scary thought- an
> ECU that controls your steering!).

I've been screwing around with a column-style Koyo unit out of a Chevrolet Cobalt.

I guess there is a Delphi units in the Malibu & Maxxs.

I would suspect that one or the other are the exact same units in the Vauxhall's overseas (being GM and all).

Do you have any more information about those ECU replacement boxes? I've struck out on getting the unit I have to work 'stand-alone', as it requires GM-NET interfaces to even get it to work at all. Was hoping to just go with linear steering rates, perhaps adjustable via a potentiometer versus the dynamic assist that the speed sensors would provide.

There's a bit of info about the Corsa B power steering unit here:

http://users.telenet.be/jov/opeltuners/data_misc/miscdata.html

Or there's a thread on the Opeltuner's forum about fitting the unit here:

http://opeltuners2.proboards84.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1176190800

HTH,

Bob

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Opel is a 4-letter word...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10498579@N07/sets/

FWIW, Cobalt = Saturn Ion = Astra.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

360 rack might be just the ticket....or just buy an uglier, but much much much better steered 240...though flexier in the chassis.

What kind of ratios are the 360 racks? Hopefully some came power?

the 142E I learned to drive on had quite possibly the slowest steering I've ever felt (short of my uncle's '65 ford F250 with the Alaskan camper on the back) in a car. My neighbor's '72 142E that I am thinking of buying (rust free, original blue paint in good shape B23 powered car) has an almost new PAS box with a ratio very close to the older style 240 PS (3.5 turns I think) that is livable. The feel of the newish box with newish arms and joints is better than any 140 I have ever felt. That isn't saying a heck of a lot. It doesn't have the like 1/2" of play that many with the manual box could just about roll off the showroom floor with, but "numb" definitely would not be an understatement. Not so much play, though a touch, and generally pretty good feel once set in a turn. Assist and ratio are fine for a street car. Not sure if the box is the same for RHD or LHD. I think I saved a PS box for a 140 even though I have an 81 240 and no longer drive a 140 series. One day I think I'll have a 140 again.

The steering and parts availability were the reasons for not looking at more 140s when choosing a 240. I have plenty of 240 mechanical and body junk and can get plenty more, which makes it a great rally car. The 3.3 turns and feel of the late 200 rack is so above and beyond a 140 it isn't even funny. The 2.5 turn guts for a 240 rack have me intrigued.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2007 04:37AM by fridgewagon.

Yeah you really can't say enough bad things about the 140 series steering.

But I still love them.

Parts availability is no where near that of 240s either, but you can still get everything you really need for them (at higher cost of course).

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Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

hudson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah you really can't say enough bad things about
> the 140 series steering.
>
> But I still love them.
>
> Parts availability is no where near that of 240s
> either, but you can still get everything you
> really need for them (at higher cost of course).

OOooooh really?
I knew a place 22 years ago that made quick gears for the steering box, but didn't know it was still available and the car needs quicker steering, in fact that is the biggest fault of the 140.

Where do you get your quick box internals?
(neener neener!)
>
> Andrew McNally
> Hamilton ON
> 27

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:

> OOooooh really?
> I knew a place 22 years ago that made quick
> gears for the steering box, but didn't know it was
> still available and the car needs quicker
> steering, in fact that is the biggest fault of the
> 140.
>
> Where do you get your quick box internals?
> (neener neener!)

Hahha John.. I think we're in agreement here! I knew you knew of a place that at one point made faster gears.. but of course doesn't anymore.

It's not like putting a rack in is rocket science. A rack is better than a box anyways

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Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish