Advanced Suspension Geometry and Design

Quote
Cosworth

Quote
buerckner
By reducing the body movement we effectively turn more of the weight transfer from braking into loading the tyres with obvious benefits to front grip and turn in.

This is not true. Adding anti-dive puts the forces into the ball joints not the springs, and that makes the tires skid quicker under brakes. I'm sure you gained some benefits but not from braking in rough terrain. UNLESS the car was gaining so much camber that would give you less foot print, therefore less grip. Otherwise more antidive is generally no bueno in rough bumpy surfaces.

Maybe I've got the theory wrong but in those two cars it's faster.

But I fail to see how forces in a Macpherson strut setup aren't then applied to the springs, and not sure what you mean by "making the tyres skid quicker"
Also I didn't say the geometry made it better over bumps but the softer spring did.

EDIT
Sorry I think get what you mean by added antidive put forces into the ball joints not the springs, Do you mean the because the spring is compressing less it has less force acting on it(which makes sense) and the force removed from the spring is now has to go elsewhere into the control arm pickups on the body/ball joints bushes etc? Of which I would have though included the tyres/ground.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2014 01:07AM by buerckner.

I believe what happens is it binds up the susp in rough situations. Compresses the softer spring then stays bound up while braking, eliminating travel to soak up the bumps. As soon as the tire skips a bump you loose all grip. If the road were smooth the wieght would stay planted until the surface lost grip and then you would skid the tires.

With no anti dive I believe the tire would soak up the bumps stay in contact with the road and you could still be hard on brakes with out locking them up. At least until the surface lost grip.

On Ice you would have almost no wieght transfer do to no grip so you would constantly be locking your tires.

---

First rally 2013
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Total rallies as driver 6
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Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
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blowfish



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2014 08:25AM by Iowa999.

Anti dive affect is ONLY when brakes are applied. The brakes are what bind the ball joints.

In a upper and lower control arm set up. You can have the lca lower in front and still have anti dive by having your upper angle the opposite the lower.

With postive caster and a strut, the front of the lca lower would make anti dive.

Hitting the face of the tires in a bump would seem smoother but its small if even measurable, compared to what happens when you hit the brakes.

---

First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts

instead



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2014 08:26AM by Iowa999.

Quote
Iowa999


(If we can somehow morph this into a discussion of how left-foot braking really works, I'd be very happy.)

Start your own thread about the secrets of what really happens with LFB and let the adults TRY and have a discussion about gravel and basics of how suspension works.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2014 11:06AM by john vanlandingham.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Start your own thread about the secrets of what really happens with LFB and let the adults TRY and have a discussion about gravel and basics of how suspension works.

Fuck off.

Quote
Iowa999

Quote
john vanlandingham
Start your own thread about the secrets of what really happens with LFB and let the adults TRY and have a discussion about gravel and basics of how suspension works.

Fuck off.

Why not start your own "secrets of Left Foot Braking:" thread rather than ruining Paulinho's thread?

Why not?

Then you could share your insights and brilliance endlessly.

And so many who had high hopes of a thread could be free from the mental masturbation that you bring, which is all you bring, are all so sad now.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

and



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2014 08:26AM by Iowa999.

now



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2014 08:26AM by Iowa999.

she



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2014 08:27AM by Iowa999.

Quote
Iowa999
OK, I'll bite.

The reason is that the torque-based part of anti-dive is directly related to the value of LFBing.

I disagree. It is directly related to application of the brakes not which foot you use to do it.

has



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2014 08:27AM by Iowa999.

No in bed on pain pills was pointing out the obvious just hoping to prevent what has been interesting reading, however unusable in application, from being something I don't want to read anymore....

Like an argument.

Here is how left foot braking works: it's a bandaid for something the car does or doesn't do the way you want it too.

no



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2014 08:27AM by Iowa999.