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My Galant VR4 build thread

Posted by Paddy1337 
unfast
Chris Clark
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Re: My Galant VR4 build thread
June 16, 2014 08:50PM
I'm surprised you didn't talk him into a putting a Volvo drive train in it. That turbo will be real easy to swap when the runners break.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: My Galant VR4 build thread
June 16, 2014 11:52PM
Quote
unfast
I'm surprised you didn't talk him into a putting a Volvo drive train in it. That turbo will be real easy to swap when the runners break.

Nothin wrong with the Misterbitchi 4G62, so that'd be silly..
Once he goes broke running ANY turbo 4wd, then maybe he'll realise why so many guys are into RWD cars.



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zeeto
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Re: My Galant VR4 build thread
June 17, 2014 07:49AM
Quote
unfast
Is that a evo engine? If so, why?

Looks like it's for a totally different car.

Quote
Paddy1337
I'm looking forward to it. Sadly, since my deployment took me past Sandblast, it put the GVR4 on a backburner to my Evo (which does not see dirt these days).
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heymagic
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Re: My Galant VR4 build thread
June 17, 2014 10:09AM
Maybe he is working on the EVO with that engine?
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Morison
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Re: My Galant VR4 build thread
June 17, 2014 10:51AM
unfortunate the cage main hoop placement will limit the car to short people...



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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: My Galant VR4 build thread
June 17, 2014 10:54AM
Quote
heymagic
Maybe he is working on the EVO with that engine?
Yeah probably.
Thing is I stressed as I do with every person that says they want to build a car and start smashing into trees that it is very expensive to build and run a rally car, especially a turbo 4wd rally car that "you cannot serve two masters".....Very difficult to be pissing thousands away on TWO way wicked cars....

Even if they are in essence the same basic cars 'cept for body..

It drags the process out and increases the liklihood of a stalled--and eventually abandoned project.
Do one thing well.



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heymagic
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Re: My Galant VR4 build thread
June 17, 2014 01:48PM
Quote
Morison
unfortunate the cage main hoop placement will limit the car to short people...

Crap..I didn't even notice that..getting old. Is that one of those kits that Charles used to sell ? Main hoop should have been back at the rear seat kick-up ideally and I agree with John on the door bars being a bit too high. It'll pass tech I'd guess but not quite optimal for room.
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Morison
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Re: My Galant VR4 build thread
June 17, 2014 02:32PM
Quote
heymagic
Crap..I didn't even notice that..getting old.
I'll bet that I wouldn't even be able to get in that car if it had wing seats in it.



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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.
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Paddy1337
Tim Patrick
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Re: My Galant VR4 build thread
June 17, 2014 06:31PM
that other engine is for my Evo yes. The Evo is primary in my world, and it does very, very well for what I use it for. But it's not rally, hence this being the first time it popped up on this forum. Not rallying, I believe that Evo manifold is going to hold up pretty well, it's 321SS, welded professionally, but it IS my first try with TUBING rather than PIPING. So it's really me testing something new, which I do a lot of. I'll research, ask advice from those I trust, but at the end of the day I like seeing and experiencing things for myself. Changed many things over time on that car, and it's why it performs so much better than its competition.

ANYWAY, haha, back to the Galant. As far as cage, I've certainly shared what you guys have said with my builder. I'm skinny, and have no issues. The cage builder is planned to be codriver, so if he made something he can't get in/out, that's on him. If it's safe enough for him to get in himself, I feel safe in it, especially considering he's willing to do that not behind the wheel. If he can't get out easily, that's obviously a real concern.

The current DSM turbo on the Galant is bad-ish. It's eating oil. So it needs to go, and I can get a pipe manifold for cheap, that will be flanged for a plethora of turbos, and quick/easy to replace if I have a spare. Pipe manifolds I have never had crack. Not from tons of abuse. That also gives me the option to easy testing if I don't like what my turbo choice provides. I like to test, and measure changes... I even have a dyno at my disposal.

I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation, John. And it very much solidified me keeping the Galant build tame, pretty much on all fronts. Most of what needs done is all the safety, suspension, and making sure I have a reliable engine/turbo/trans. I figure I'm 99% done at this point (sarcasm). Hell, I'm even selling my kart right now which will be one less distraction, and a couple grand to waste on the Galant.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: My Galant VR4 build thread
June 18, 2014 12:25AM
keep it up man..
I still say you oughtter do what's needed to get a Evo whatever trans in there..Getting hard to find the old transfer boxes for the ones that sat the other way round, and many of the gears and synchro hubs etc are rare or NLA...
Your crew can do good fab---and Mitsubish did almost everything for you by already doing it...

(I beat a whole pile of Talon/Eclipsed cars in the mid 90s in some Nationals with an ancient Saab with a little 1730cc cast iron pushrod motor that was tired--and by a whole pile I mean virtually every one and even beat the reigning National Champion in Pee Ghee Tea--caught in under 5 miles... It wasn't cause I had more motor......and heaven forbid I would ever suggest I know anything about driving, oh noeye rolling smiley. I beat them because their car had a huge flaw bolted to that superb motor that just pissed all that power away.)



John Vanlandingham
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Paddy1337
Tim Patrick
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Re: My Galant VR4 build thread
June 18, 2014 04:41PM
I truly believe it'd be cheaper to buy a ratty Evo 8 and build it, than to get a new/backwards Evo motor and drivetrain and electronics in the Galant.

Let me learn on the Gaylant, wrap it round a tree, and the next will be an Evo. Running Evos that were bought and quickly ruined by kids are selling down close to 10k these days. Ratty, and only good for a race car in my eyes, but they'll keep getting cheaper. Shells go for as cheap as i bought my Galant, depending on what's included as far as axles, diffs etc.

I know you'd recommend lose the AWD and the turbo for another car altogether, but we both know that's not happening. What I HAVE considered on a subsequent build is making the first N/A Evo I have ever heard of winking smiley
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john vanlandingham
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Re: My Galant VR4 build thread
June 18, 2014 05:33PM
Quote
Paddy1337
Running Evos that were bought and quickly ruined by kids are selling down close to 10k these days.
I know you'd recommend lose the AWD and the turbo for another car altogether, but we both know that's not happening.





What I HAVE considered on a subsequent build is making the first N/A Evo I have ever heard of winking smiley

Well that's only because a done "other car" could be right around 10k and in the right hands be as quick as an Evo and more reliable..

And why would you create self made problems going N/A Evo... A car that heavy will want lotsa motor--which can be done but costs moolah, and if you make a hot n/a motor , it'll want shorter final drive and close gears that I think is easy to find..

Turbos are magic...Why throw away magic when its already there and the whole package works so fantastic?



John Vanlandingham
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Paddy1337
Tim Patrick
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Re: My Galant VR4 build thread
June 18, 2014 05:38PM
guess it depends on what I learn with this first turbo. Restrictors are uncharted territory for me, and I am scared. Compared to most other topics, info around them seems pretty tightly held.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: My Galant VR4 build thread
June 18, 2014 07:22PM
Quote
Paddy1337
guess it depends on what I learn with this first turbo. Restrictors are uncharted territory for me, and I am scared. Compared to most other topics, info around them seems pretty tightly held.

Yep..we know some things like motors with bores around 85mm can tolerate stupidly high compression, and the max "pounds per hour" a 34mm hole can flow, but critical things like cam profiles to generate lots of exhaust velocity---which translates in spool ---are hidden/secret or people don't know....

1st 34mm restrictor motor I build was for Dave Hintz, local fast guy and all around nice guy at his request I called a guy I know who worked at Ford Motorsport for years mapping and then opened his own place...his first question was what motor. Subie 2.0---he said Oh a big bore. So we run max 9.1 to 9.15 comp...next he asked he said the most critical question "what management and what are you doing to limit max boost?"
I didn't know what Dave planned and said so...
He said that is the most critical thing because we bring in boost so early and it comes on so hard that limiting it exactly is the critical thing---or they go bang"
And told me of spraying a Subie motor around the dyno room just 10 days before---a 14,000 Pound Sterling motor.

The Fords in his day used a little block in line between the plenum and the waste gate actuator where normally there's a simple solenoid (a steel ball in a case with an electromagnet that gets a signal from ECU, it becomes an electromagnet and the steel ball lifts dirverting manifold pressure to a port with a 2mm restrictor so it limits what the actuator "sees" and you get the 2 bar boost you want) which had a couple of fuel injectors used as metering devices... The amount of manifold pressure they "pass' to the waste gate actuator being precisely controlled by the ECU....very accurate..

Whatever the case there is a lot of "unknowns" even 20 years after having the fucked up rule...

You know I could shoot a note to a guy I know who has built the heads for a guy who won GpN at Swedish rally like 12-13 times in Misterbitchis and ask if you'd like. Most of the Swedes share info very freely. More info is usually good especially when coming from people who have done this shit.



John Vanlandingham
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Paddy1337
Tim Patrick
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Re: My Galant VR4 build thread
June 19, 2014 03:44PM
I'd certainly be appreciative if you'd drop the Swede a line. I'd be double appreciative if you translate what he says for me winking smiley If it matters, the long term plan (or near term if my motor doesn't check out in inspection) is stroking it to a 2.3L from the 2.0L. The change in spool up is insane with the change. My Evo has killed 4 transmissions from spooling up too fast, so I know EXACTLY where you were coming from. It's a "2.4L", and it literally just twists shafts and tubes apart, aftermarket stuff too.

I won't be doing that crazy boost control setup you described but it sounds highly developed. We'll be using a Series 1 AEM ECU. Decent control, but low on the price scale. Real good with triggers, and relays, and for combining all data into 1 datalog. Will also be crucial for electronic boost control as well.

Tons of off-the-shelf cam options for these 4G63s, most all about high RPM power. But that means used "smaller" cams go up for sale cheap all the time.
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