E36 BMW chassis parts list

So I purchased a beater BMW 318i this weekend on a whim. So car will just putter around town for now. But if I was going to start moving it toward being a stage car what updating / backdating stuff should I be looking for? Or if the OEM stuff is junk and there is some trick aftermarket part that has fixed BMWs mistake. There is some worn out stuff on the suspension so I see no sense in replacing something with new if there is a better part I should be changing to.

You go on the BMW forums and they are going on and on about bushing offsets, and big brake kits, and angel eye headlights. Much of this does not apply for rally. Trying to stay away from turrets and different manufacturer top mounts as those type of modifications would be done when installing a cage or other full tear down. This would more be small projects that could be tackled in a weekend.

If this has already been covered before please point me in the right direction. I am thinking the main categories for those that are rallying E36s.

Front Suspension:
- Keep OEM knuckles from a non-M car as they have a common brake connector
wheel bearings?
A-arms?
Top mounts?
Sway bars?


Rear Suspension:
What links need to be replaced / upgraded?
- subframe reinforcement is recommended
subframe mounts?

Brakes:
- All stock 4 and 6 cylinder cars will fit under 15" wheels. M brakes will not fit.
Or full aftermarket gear?
Do other things need to be swapped along with it?
Dual master cylinders? ABS delete?

Rear Diff:
Supra?
M3 diff?
Available LSD?
M3 hollow axles?

Chassis:
- Weld in chassis strengthening is recommended as well as front sub frame re enforcements.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2014 10:12AM by Andrew_Frick.

Quote
Andrew_Frick
Rear Suspension:
subframe mounts?

Rear Diff:
Available LSD?

I'd check front arms, ball joints on inner and outer like to fail.
Inspect all your bushings on rear arms.

Eventually you'll want some of the Turner motorsports reinforcement stuff. Front strut tower double skins and rear subframe mount reinforcements anyhow.

I'd stick with the stock front control arm bushing (M3 is offset) just for price. When you're ready for rally struts, JVAB 50s have a nice offset top mount to get the camber and caster you'll need.

Rear suspension is trickier. Kern's been running the setup Jari had, with a blown rear shock. Got a set of E30 convertible rear springs which are rumored to be stiffest option. Not sure what he's planning for shock. I'm hoping to figure out a coilover solution with JVAB in the near future for the rear of the multi-link cars.

Stock brakes with decent pads are plenty for Chumpcar so should be plenty for rally.

I'm working on a few specific products for BMW rallying. Sump Skid plate and crossmembers will be available for sale within the next week or two. Brake kit stuff isn't too far behind. Gas tank protection will be up soon as well.

If you're going to daily it, stick with the 4 banger for fuel economy. Engine swaps in these are relatively straightforward so easy to upgrade in future.

Diffs. The stock LSD is a clutch type, though relatively mild. Some 5 series cars have the clutch pack diff so that is a junkyard option. M3 ones tend to go for $350+. You can find ring and pinions from 2.93 up to 4.27 for the "medium" (188mm ring gear) case in E30, E34, and E36 cars, mostly six cylinders. I know the Compact came with the "small" (168 mm ring gear) case diff, not sure if the full size four cylinders did, but should be pretty straightforward swap.

I find much more annoyance from things like broken door latch mechanisms and falling windows on these cars than anything.

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Grant Hughes

Thinking about selling the Focus, Andrew?

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General wisdom on BMW forums is that if you had a 6-cyl you needed a medium case diff. Jari told me that most of the cars overseas keep the small case diff so that they have access to the higher ratios without getting into "M" parts. That was what prompted my supra diff swap and a 4.3, but I would never recommend the hassle of that swap to anyone after driving the car.

I'm not convinced that these cars need crazy high rear end ratios since the gears are a bit wonky. With a 4.44, I was launching the 328i in 2nd gear at 100AW and transits with 65mph speed limits sucked (1:1 5th gear). On stage, I used 2nd-5th gears.

I'd need to pull out a gearing calculator, but I sorta wonder if a low 3.xx would be nicer. Hopefully you'd be able to launch in 1st gear, and use 1st-4th on stage and then have 5th gear for transits.

If your car came with solid front discs (the 1995 and 1996 Ti models did), the quick upgrade is to the vented discs and rotors that all the other E36s came with (excluding the M3 since those won't fit under 15s). At hilclimbs they brakes don't see a ton of abuse, and at rallies I'm not going deep enough into the corners to really put the hurt on the stockers yet.

Dave

Quote
DaveK
General wisdom on BMW forums is that if you had a 6-cyl you needed a medium case diff.

So much general wisdom on all forums anymore is so misguided by parking lot pounding and road race that it's hard to tell what is a valid consideration. Look at what they say you "have" to do on a road race BMW E36 car, none of which we have done to the Chumpcar and we've got probably 20 hours of track time on that car by now. Though I am about ready to do the rear subframe reinforcements.

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Grant Hughes

Quote
DaveK
General wisdom on BMW forums is that if you had a 6-cyl you needed a medium case diff.

So much general wisdom on all forums anymore is so misguided by parking lot pounding and road race that it's hard to tell what is a valid consideration. Look at what they say you "have" to do on a road race BMW E36 car, none of which we have done to the Chump and we've got probably 20 hours of track time on that car by now. Though I am about ready to do the rear subframe reinforcements.

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Grant Hughes

Quote
DaveK
General wisdom on BMW forums is that if you had a 6-cyl you needed a medium case diff. Jari told me that most of the cars overseas keep the small case diff so that they have access to the higher lower ratios without getting into "M" parts. That was what prompted my supra diff swap and a 4.3, but I would never recommend the hassle of that swap to anyone after driving the car.

I'm not convinced that these cars need crazy high lower rear end ratios since the gears are a bit wonky. With a 4.44, I was launching the 328i in 2nd gear at 100AW and transits with 65mph speed limits sucked (1:1 5th gear). On stage, I used 2nd-5th gears.

I'd need to pull out a gearing calculator, but I sorta wonder if a low higher 3.xx would be nicer. Hopefully you'd be able to launch in 1st gear, and use 1st-4th on stage and then have 5th gear for transits.

If your car came with solid front discs (the 1995 and 1996 Ti models did), the quick upgrade is to the vented discs and rotors that all the other E36s came with (excluding the M3 since those won't fit under 15s). At hilclimbs they brakes don't see a ton of abuse, and at rallies I'm not going deep enough into the corners to really put the hurt on the stockers yet.

Dave

lower Dave. 4.44 is lower than 3.36

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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Quote
john vanlandingham
lower Dave. 4.44 is lower than 3.36

Damnit...teh maths have failed me again!

What is this subframe reinforcement thing?

All I have heard online (which is the ONLY place I've heard it) is that the part where the rear subframe attaches will rust out. Well, if anything is going to rust out, it will happen here, and I've never seen an E36 with any kind of rust issues, other than a -ti that had its front swaybar mounts disappear. The lack of extreme body rot is one reason why they interest me. The other reasons involve F-Cup videos.

Was it a running change in the E36 production or was it strictly aftermarket? (Is there any benefit to trying to find a '99 over a '95 for example)

For the difference in price, right now in 2014, it doesn't make sense to not look for an M3.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2014 06:49PM by Pete.

Quote
Pete
What is this subframe reinforcement thing?

All I have heard online (which is the ONLY place I've heard it) is that the part where the rear subframe attaches will rust out. Well, if anything is going to rust out, it will happen here, and I've never seen an E36 with any kind of rust issues, other than a -ti that had its front swaybar mounts disappear. The lack of extreme body rot is one reason why they interest me. The other reasons involve F-Cup videos.

Was it a running change in the E36 production or was it strictly aftermarket? (Is there any benefit to trying to find a '99 over a '95 for example)

For the difference in price, right now in 2014, it doesn't make sense to not look for an M3.

Not sure about chassis changes. Here's a pic of the rear reinforcement bits added (note that the Compact or 318Ti uses an E30 based rear end so this does not apply):



Going for an M3 has two potential downsides to be aware of:

• 1996-1999 are over the Group 2 displacement limit with 3.2L engines
• M3 brakes don't fit under 15" wheels and have different spacing on brake bracket than any other E36

Hard to believe that the M3s in your area are near the price of the other cars. I'm suspecting some more searching will find better deals on the non-M cars. In Colorado a suitable 325 can be found for under $2k whereas the M3 are still commanding $5k for a really beat one with an automatic.

Dave

I'm not looking at the retail market. I'm also specifically interested in 3-liter models only, which is where my pointed questions re: running changes are coming from. Brakes and such don't concern me, as I'm mainly considering _{running it in Stock Rear rallycross}

The -ti rear suspension has some interesting kinematics going on. It looks like the subframe mounts are built on the Fleshlight principle. They can move up and down something like two inches. On throttle the diff forces the subframe up on its slidey mountings and makes the instant center higher for traction. On brakes the braking forces shove the subframe down and drops the instant center in the weeds to eliminate brake hop. Neat way to tame a swingarm suspension's deficiencies but anything that relies on a lot of bushing compliance is doomed to maintenance issues. It does work nice when everything is new.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Quote
Pete
I'm not looking at the retail market. I'm also specifically interested in 3-liter models only, which is where my pointed questions re: running changes are coming from. Brakes and such don't concern me, as I'm mainly considering _{running it in Stock Rear rallycross}

The -ti rear suspension has some interesting kinematics going on. It looks like the subframe mounts are built on the Fleshlight principle. They can move up and down something like two inches. On throttle the diff forces the subframe up on its slidey mountings and makes the instant center higher for traction. On brakes the braking forces shove the subframe down and drops the instant center in the weeds to eliminate brake hop. Neat way to tame a swingarm suspension's deficiencies but anything that relies on a lot of bushing compliance is doomed to maintenance issues. It does work nice when everything is new.

I don't get the "stock" rallyx rules anymore, but sort of a bummer to be stuck with 17" wheels, no?

No idea what your'e talking about with the TI rear end. Nothing regarding the mounting points is supposed to move. To me, the TI rear end looks better than having those spindly looking multil link rears...that in factory configuration aren't even a solid beam...they're two 'c' channels facing eachother that you can flex with your hands. Suppose it was because it was better for those to bend/break than tweak mounting points. Anyway, stoutness (real or perceived) was my main reason for grabbing a 95 hatchback.

Dave

The subframe bushings on the ti look like they have a lot of vertical play, by design. Telling is that BMW elected to not use a guibo on the rear, so they probably expected a lot of monkey motion to happen at the diff end. They also went to a lot of trouble to attach the sway bar to the body and not the subframe. Attaching the swaybar to a subframe that deliberately moves up and down is non-beneficial.

(Regarding Stock class... IMO a stock M3 on 17" snows would be faster than my RX-7 regardless, and it would have the benefit of probably not running $80-90 per run to keep fed. When I did the math, I realized that I needed to get a different car or maybe take up a cheaper hobby, like plinking with a Desert Eagle...)

---

Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Quote
Pete
(Regarding Stock class... IMO a stock M3 on 17" snows would be faster than my RX-7 regardless, and it would have the benefit of probably not running $80-90 per run to keep fed. When I did the math, I realized that I needed to get a different car or maybe take up a cheaper hobby, like plinking with a Desert Eagle...)

^ Haha!

Quote
Pete
The subframe bushings on the ti look like they have a lot of vertical play, by design. Telling is that BMW elected to not use a guibo on the rear, so they probably expected a lot of monkey motion to happen at the diff end. They also went to a lot of trouble to attach the sway bar to the body and not the subframe. Attaching the swaybar to a subframe that deliberately moves up and down is non-beneficial.

Hmm, I replaced all the bushing on my car since it had 240k on it. Haven't seen any ill effects from going with stiffer material and I would bet it cut down on any up-and-down back there. The driveshafts for all E36 use a guibo at the transmission mount. Depending on when the car was made, some use a CV-style joint at the rear diff, and others use a U-joint. None to my knowledge used a guibo at the back end.

M3s have front sway bars attached to the shock vs. the control arm for the other E36s. No idea what that means though. I've removed all the sway bars from mine and I think it handles pretty good...but I've got coilovers, so that wouldn't fly in stock class and the factory springs are pretty soft.

Dave

So what type of bushings are people using for the rear multilink? And for the subframe mounts? Looks like everything from stock to bearings are available. Are the solid subfame mounts a good plan for rally?

Grant you had mentioned stock A arms. I have read that the M3 ones have larger ball joints. Is this is a good upgrade or not?


I am going to edit the first post as more information is discussed. Let me know if there are any errors.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2014 10:14AM by Andrew_Frick.