Let's pretend I have a Volvo 242
Posted by Jard
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Godlike Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Raceconsulting
2014-05-17 Rally Karlstad Official final Class results B-förare 2 WD 18 starting Pos No Dc Driver/CO-Driver Club/Country Make/Model SS 1/SS 4 SS 2/SS 5 SS 3/SS 6 Pen/Total Diff P/L 1 132 B Björn Engström Borlänge MK Volvo 240 3:43,6 7:14,3 2:45,1 Kent-Åke Stenbäck Forshaga MC 4:17,0 6:59,8 46,5 25:46,3 2 127 B Mikael Wiberg Storfors MK Volvo 940 3:48,7 7:16,6 2:49,6 7,6 Weine Larsson SMK Karlskoga 4:15,0 6:58,6 45,4 25:53,9 7,6 3 128 B Tom Thomasson MK Ratten Volvo 240 3:43,5 7:20,3 2:46,5 2,3 Dan Levin MK Ratten 4:17,0 7:02,4 46,5 25:56,2 9,9 4 130 B Michael Larsson Rönne MK Volvo 940 3:47,2 7:15,9 2:50,1 4,9 Alan Karlsson Laxå MK 4:20,1 7:02,4 45,4 26:01,1 14,8 5 134 B Emil Karlsson Hällefors MK Volvo 940 3:50,4 7:26,3 2:50,7 15,1 Magnus Hermansson Hällefors MK 4:19,0 7:04,4 45,4 26:16,2 29,9 Entrant: Kjellbergs AB 6 120 B Janne Eriksson Säffle MC BMW 325 4:01,8 7:40,0 3:01,1 1:06,9 Håkan Johansson Säffle MC 4:30,0 7:23,1 47,1 27:23,1 1:36,8 7 115 B Niclas Åkerland Dals MK Volvo 242 4:06,3 7:41,5 2:57,9 1,2 Rolf Isaksson Dals MK 4:30,0 7:20,8 47,8 27:24,3 1:38,0 8 124 B Lars-Eric Fredriksson Degerfors RC Volvo 242 4:00,9 7:38,4 2:56,5 4,1 Håkan Carlsson Degerfors RC 4:33,0 7:32,7 46,9 27:28,4 1:42,1 9 131 B Niklas Solenö Katrineholms MK VW Golf III 3:55,0 7:47,0 2:56,3 5,8 Olle Erixon Katrineholms MK 4:27,0 7:40,2 48,7 27:34,2 1:47,9 10 118 B Mikael Tengelin Nora MK Volvo 242 4:02,0 7:43,8 3:00,4 10 5,0 Per-Erik Andersson Ludvika MS 4:32,0 7:23,8 47,2 27:39,2 1:52,9 11 116 B Anders Weststrand Forshaga MC Volvo 242 4:05,8 7:51,2 3:04,8 13,4 Stefan Örstrand Forshaga MC 4:36,0 7:26,2 48,6 27:52,6 2:06,3 12 126 B Daniel Johansson Munkfors MC Volvo 240 3:47,6 16:22,1 2:49,9 7:09,8 Jonas Holm Laxå MK 4:10,0 7:06,5 46,3 35:02,4 9:16,1 133 B Niklas Blomkvist Munkfors MC Volvo 242 3:47,0 Gustav Johansson Fryksdalens MK Brutit 125 B Torbjörn Eriksson SMK Karlskoga Volvo 242 3:52,7 Arne Johansson SMK Karlskoga Brutit Entrant: BJUHRS BIL AB 123 B Pelle Berg Munkfors MC BMW 3:53,3 Conny Isemo Munkfors MC Compact M3 Brutit 121 B Mikael Johansson SMK Trollhättan Volvo 242 3:53,4 Andreas Karlsson SMK Trollhättan Brutit 119 B Peter Lövgren Götene MK Volvo 242 Peter T Modig Vara MK Brutit 129 B Henrik Carlzon MK Kopparberg Opel Kadett GSI Håkan Eliasson MK Kopparberg Brutit Entrant: Ledin Motorsport 2wd A drivers: http://www.raceconsulting.com/rally/resultat/resultat.jsp?tavling=706&urval=granskad.deltar.tavlingsklass20666&rubrik=Klassresultat&underrubrik=A-f%C3%B6rare%202%20WD 2wd C drivers Raceconsulting 2014-05-17 Rally Karlstad Official final Class results C-förare 2 WD 10 starting Pos No Dc Driver/CO-Driver Club/Country Make/Model SS 1/SS 4 SS 2/SS 5 SS 3/SS 6 Pen/Total Diff P/L 1 144 C Pontus Lönnström Nora MK Volvo 4:02,1 7:39,3 2:50,4 Mikael Lönnström Nora MK 242 4:19,0 7:06,1 46,2 26:43,1 2 142 C Emil Huss SMK Örebro BMW 4:08,9 7:57,3 2:57,0 1:18,7 Erika Hermansson SMK Örebro 325 4:44,0 7:26,3 48,3 28:01,8 1:18,7 3 143 C Thomas Dahlström Stenungsund MS VW 4:16,3 8:15,3 3:10,2 1:09,0 Gunilla Rydin Stenungsund MS Golf III 4:51,0 7:49,1 48,9 29:10,8 2:27,7 4 139 C Inge Olsson Kils MK Bil Opel 4:34,0 8:57,2 3:23,5 1:56,3 Anders Larsson Kils MK Bil Kadett Rally 5:02,0 8:16,7 53,7 31:07,1 4:24,0 5 138 C Lasse Jägerström Stenungsunds MS Volvo 4:34,6 9:54,4 3:35,9 10 2:16,7 Margaretha Jägerström Stenungsunds MS Amazon 5:28,0 8:52,4 48,5 33:23,8 6:40,7 6 146 C Lennart Martinsson Sotenäs MK Volvo 4:16,3 8:06,2 3:21,2 1:23,5 Monica Martinsson Sotenäs MK 244 10:44,0 7:33,3 46,3 34:47,3 8:04,2 Entrant: KAREV 141 C Tony Rämsten Gnesta MK Opel 4:27,6 8:34,0 3:15,8 Frida Olofsson Hässleholms MK Astra Brutit 145 C Martin Nygård KNA Solør Ford 3:50,2 7:27,5 Mats Nygård KNA Solør Fiesta Brutit 140 C Thomas Andersson Storfors MK Volvo 3:54,3 7:38,2 Tobias Grammer Storfors MK 242 Brutit 147 C Stefan Larsson Stenungsunds MS Volvo 4:17,6 7:40,2 Rustan Hagstedt Kils MK Bil 940 Brutit Valid HTML 4.01! John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
mellow65 Oliver Klozoff Super Moderator Location: Oregon Join Date: 09/10/2008 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 480 Rally Car: Nada |
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heymagic Banned Senior Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
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john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Godlike Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Depends on who listens to who and who stupid the owner is and how much fun they desire to have and how much they themselves are willing to do. I'm sure you have seen the build threads for Eric Evert and Justin Mason...Eric is 20 I believe but after an 8 hour day he goes out in the garage and works on the car... Just one example is the adding of rear turrets or towers.....never done car fab, he discussed alternatives and took good advice and did his own simple tube design... Others have said it takes 80 hours...when somebody else was doing it.. Sean Medcrofts Xratty, now owned by the New and Improved Dave Clark is said by owner and speccies to be "wicked fast".. The motor is stock, the clutch is stock, the gearbox is a Borg Warner T5 from a Mustang V8 which can be found for between $250 to $650 and the sinle biggest change is a Toyota Supra diff installed using a Sooper Bitchin Supra diff kit---the big strong diff cost $75, the kit--which was designed to be as easy as possible to install and uses unmodified Xratty half shafts and CVs---with the provision to bolt in much large Ford Cosworth 2wd CVs (the size of 911 turbo) if the need arises---cost $345 retail. It has some unknown turbo and some intercooler... The Volvo motor is identical in most important respects. They have same 96mm bore, same 80mm stroke, same head bolt spacing, same intake valve size, Fords exhaust is 38mm, Volvo is 35mm... Volvo block is about 18mm taller and its rods are either 13mm longer or 20mm longer depending on early or late motor (Ford 132mm, early B21 and B23 are 145mm and later B230 is 152) BFD. Clutches are Ford 228mm, 215mm early and 228 later....Provision for using the exact same 228mm Kennedy pressure plate--a good PP that is available with real torque ratings some 200 ft/lbs up too 360 ft/lbs in 4 steps--always rated with organic disc.. In areas blessed with organisers who eschew the Rally America and their moronic rule banning any turbo motors--even stock ones---while allowing with complete impunity ANY level of normal aspirated ---smarter guys can have plenty of fun with the stock turbo motors.....thanks to the cheap sub $200 cost of an alternate final drive....My personal diffs, a 3,9 to go with the 4wd drive train currently in the car and the 4,3 one to go with the nice T5 in the box waiting to go in, cost $50 and $32.75 respectively for the whole lump--gearing AND LSD---and that's the major mod to make them fun. Should a guy decide to build a hot n.a. motor, a real motor, then a set of custom pistons for any 4 costs the same, should a guy decide to swap in better rods, 4 rods cost from $300-400 As we all know in a n.a. motor the real big costs are in the head....and there a lot of the costs are again same no matter what... A set of 48 DCOEs or ITBs cost the same for a Volvo or a Ford or a Toyota or a whatever. There are many alternates to spending $1200 on hand porting--BOTH Xratty and Volvo can use the SAME Volvo 16v head... last one I pulled was a provisional "just in case he decides to go n.a. so he can me in Gp2" I pulled for Sean Medcroft and its still in his garage and it cost for everything including intake and exhaust manifolds, cams tesioners, cam cover only $125 Stock it will outflow anything a Volvo 8v or Ford 8v can ever do... A real competition cam ground on a new raw core costs the same for a Volvo, a Ford, a Toyota, a Nissan, a BMW... So it is untrue that it must take a shitload of money for a Volvo to go good---particularly go good enough for our events and our competitors.. EVERYTHING takes some money---and so the question of what TOTAL cost comes down to initial cost of the car, and the cost of the major upgrades. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Godlike Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
That was B class, chosen because there may be a couple of US drivers that might be able to get into the top half of the fild if they're having a good day.. Here's overall: http://www.raceconsulting.com/rally/resultat/totalresultat.jsp?tavling=706 What that shows is while plenty of Volvos are beating plenty of EVOs, the first BMW is down in 44th place, the next in around 68th... What it shows is when there lots of drivers with similar skills and lots of cars well prepared, there's no big BMW 'dominance", it's just another car---but more expensive to buy and to keep running. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
heymagic Banned Senior Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
Well first off, you're dull as hell when we can't get you wound up.
2nd, I kinda like you when you just explain stuff nicely. 3rd..DCII..his first car was the old Rally Taxi , a battery powered BigFoot truck would be wicked fast to him. But, the OPs question had nothing to do with Merkurs 
And yes a Volvo can go fast, just not stock. I was really bummed to hear Jardevall blew a stupid turbo and couldn't run. Why the lack of backup I never heard. We all like fast cars, irregardless of branding. I would like to see a Volvo show up that was as cleanly built as Seans that could run like the wind. No one ever said racing was cheap and no one certainly ever said that the cheapest option was either the only or the best. Personal choice and individuality , it's what makes every one of us unique and special. Answer a question please..the Volvo twin cam/2300 Ford block swap. Was that deliberate collaboration or just a fluke of nature ? |
NoCoast Grant Hughes Junior Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
It's not a direct swap. Requires some aluminum welded on and it's a little more than just a straight swap. There's stuff to figure out like cam gears, tensioners, etc. I have a modified head ready to go sitting in the closet upstairs for "future" use. Grant Hughes |
heymagic Banned Senior Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
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john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Godlike Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Requires? Again depends on if you listen to whoever said they saw whoever actually do it or if you take the easiest way---just buy the predone one and tensioners and belt from Pyro Pete in Conneticut, or if you refine the original idea to make the block of alloy bolt on.... All told not really very hard---or much eaiser depending. You choose the easy way--and you pay lots more---because of time.. The Ford block is maybe 15-17mm longer behind last cylinder, big water leak if top of block is left exposed so it must be covered up to prevent leaks--big leaks. So far everybody has done what everybody has done and welded a block of aluminum on..Easy to do but requires a skilled head welder and realistically probably all 16 seats and guides---since the head relaxes when warmed up that much...then it need surfacing both sides... Sean Medcroft and I were discussing how to stop the leaks without welding and we sort both thought we keep water and oil in all sorts of things with covers that are bolted on...no real reason we could consider that...but that's using the niggin and comes from being famikliar with motors, welding procedures for aluminum heads and worrying about seats falling out and guides loosening---worries confirmed by the local 35 year veteran of repairing all kinds of fuel drag heads and blocks when those thing pop--and man they pop good. Still its just external easy shit...Far easier and far cheaper than trying to make the 8v Volvo or 8v Ford flow anything in a n.a. application.. As for the 2 having the same bolt spacing: all Volvo basic machining dimensions such as block deck height---231,7mm and bore spacing and head bolt spacing, even Main bearing size---curiously its 2.500" not some metric size----all go all the way back to the old B18 from maybe 1960/61 so it came first...who can say.. We're just happy they are so similar... John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
mellow65 Oliver Klozoff Super Moderator Location: Oregon Join Date: 09/10/2008 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 480 Rally Car: Nada |
This is true, and I fully agree with the fact that if you don't know how to do any of the fancy stuff, just leave it stock, or at least stockish. A certian volvo, aka mine, someone really should never had taken it to that level. You reminded him, I reminded him, but meh, it is what it is.
Did he go to a t5 after he killed the t9? But I might slightly dispute the $75 toyota diffs, the last two I bought were still under $200, but at least when I go looking they always seems to pull good money.
And from there no one will dispute the volvo for still being a starting point. I do wish there was a better way of progressing with a car, like starting with a bone stock car and rallying it on borderline stockish shocks but then move to a decent stuff one later. The only down side to that is you generally tie your strut boxes into the cage, and well after the fact they normally frown on changing the cage. "Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty" |
NoCoast Grant Hughes Junior Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
The easy way. That no one has ever yet to do... Grant Hughes |
SteveL Steve Leitch Ultra Moderator Location: Ocean Shores, Washington Join Date: 01/25/2009 Posts: 280 Rally Car: Can't decide which to use... |
I'm fairly certian Don Haulsee(sp?) has done it, (no welding on the Volvo head) by using plugs and external oil drains. It aparently is in one of his '76 Capris... SteveL This is the point in the killing spree when you really should turn the gun on yourself |
NoCoast Grant Hughes Junior Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
Oh yeah, I think I saw that one a few years ago. Mine's going to continue sitting in my closet until I have the money and motivation to build it into what I want it to be. Grant Hughes |
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