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VW Mk2 control arm reinforcement

Posted by Mr. K 
DG_Rally
Dave Grenwis
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Re: VW Mk2 control arm reinforcement
July 18, 2014 02:41PM
Quote
DexterVW
So the Passat stuff bolts into your subframe all the same but needs Passat knuckle, which has slightly more material on it..

Why do you say it needs the passat knuckle? I've got the mk3 knuckles with passat arms and they work fine together. I haven't tried but don't see why the mk2 knuckles wouldn't work.



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danster
Danny McGee
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Re: VW Mk2 control arm reinforcement
July 19, 2014 06:37AM
The difference in wheel position within the arch suggest a mismatch in components.
The heavier construction Passat arms that are designed to take an upright / knuckle with the lower balljoint, strut mounting lugs and CV all positioned on the centreline of the knuckle are a different shape from the mk3 GTI/VR arms which are designed to take an upright / knuckle which has the bottom balljoint positioned forward of centreline of the knuckle.
Therefore if one tries to mismatch components of these two types it does not centre the wheel in the arch.
I guess Dexter has now solved the issue by installing the complete mk3 GTI / VR setup.



Disappointingly not yet a Jackass



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2014 06:41AM by danster.
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DexterVW
David Baker
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Re: VW Mk2 control arm reinforcement
July 21, 2014 07:22AM
Quote
danster
The difference in wheel position within the arch suggest a mismatch in components.
The heavier construction Passat arms that are designed to take an upright / knuckle with the lower balljoint, strut mounting lugs and CV all positioned on the centreline of the knuckle are a different shape from the mk3 GTI/VR arms which are designed to take an upright / knuckle which has the bottom balljoint positioned forward of centreline of the knuckle.
Therefore if one tries to mismatch components of these two types it does not centre the wheel in the arch.
I guess Dexter has now solved the issue by installing the complete mk3 GTI / VR setup.

That makes sense... I went to the shop yesterday and wrote down all the part number to search and see exactly what I had. And yes.. Mk3 uprights with Passat arms do not work. Sorry for the confusion guys. Thanks for the help :-D
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Robert Culbertson
Robert Culbertson
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Re: VW Mk2 control arm reinforcement
July 21, 2014 10:24AM
For clarification, the standard mk3 uprights will work but the vr6 ones will not.
The mk2 and mk3 uprights mount up exactly the same.
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Kurt Thiel
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Re: VW Mk2 control arm reinforcement
July 26, 2014 08:43PM
Just my 2 cents, stock OEM arms with the rubber bushings. Stock control arms need the flexibility of the rubber bushings to absorb shock. I have seen your car and it is very impressive, you are definitely a top notch fabricator. The problem I see is every thing is rigidly mounted and your car has no give in the suspension that equals broken stuff. Ps forget the hard bushings rubber is better. Tectonics sells stiffer rear bushings that are still rubber. See you at Galway cavendish. Kurt
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john vanlandingham
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Re: VW Mk2 control arm reinforcement
July 26, 2014 08:56PM
Quote
Kurt Thiel
Just my 2 cents, stock OEM arms with the rubber bushings. Stock control arms need the flexibility of the rubber bushings to absorb shock. I have seen your car and it is very impressive, you are definitely a top notch fabricator. The problem I see is every thing is rigidly mounted and your car has no give in the suspension that equals broken stuff. Ps forget the hard bushings rubber is better. Tectonics sells stiffer rear bushings that are still rubber. See you at Galway cavendish. Kurt

KURT! NEVER GOT YOUR EMAIL....Ya musta spelled my address wrong..It's a Gmail and its
janvanvurpa then at the you know...



John Vanlandingham
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Kurt Thiel
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Re: VW Mk2 control arm reinforcement
July 27, 2014 07:19PM
John, It was nice talking to you after all the years . I am still interested in the stuff we talked about and I have been meaning to contact you. I didn't find your email but no problem, I will call. I really enjoy our long discutions and bouncing ideas back and forth. Cheers, Kurt.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: VW Mk2 control arm reinforcement
July 27, 2014 08:25PM
Quote
Kurt Thiel
John, It was nice talking to you after all the years . I am still interested in the stuff we talked about and I have been meaning to contact you. I didn't find your email but no problem, I will call. I really enjoy our long discutions and bouncing ideas back and forth. Cheers, Kurt.

Coolio..Rememeber with a tiny bit of creativity we can make the struts AND the shocks to that when you wad the Golf up into a ball kickin ass on all the young äuns stuff, we can change top mounting and ears on the bottom tubes to mount them up on a nice 240 Volvo..



John Vanlandingham
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Mr. K
Chris Krepski
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Re: VW Mk2 control arm reinforcement
July 28, 2014 09:09AM
Hi Kurt,

Thanks for the compliments on the car :-)

Funny enough, the solid rubber bushings were the original setup. I thought to try polyurethane bushings since a control arm needed replacement after clocking a rock on the last stage of Lanark, so 2 new poly-bushed Febi arms went in. After the Black Bear experience, we're putting VW arms with solid rubber bushings back in. I have to stop hitting stuff on the last stage too haha :p

I agree with you that a little compliance in there is needed. The solid rubber bushings did the trick for 6 rallies, and it looks like they move more freely up and down too.

As much fun as it is to chase you and the Focus posse, Galway is too soon and the budget too tight. Hope to see you all at Rallye Défi in September.

Cheers,
Chris

Quote
Kurt Thiel
Just my 2 cents, stock OEM arms with the rubber bushings. Stock control arms need the flexibility of the rubber bushings to absorb shock. I have seen your car and it is very impressive, you are definitely a top notch fabricator. The problem I see is every thing is rigidly mounted and your car has no give in the suspension that equals broken stuff. Ps forget the hard bushings rubber is better. Tectonics sells stiffer rear bushings that are still rubber. See you at Galway cavendish. Kurt
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Towona
Tony P
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Re: VW Mk2 control arm reinforcement
October 23, 2014 02:57PM
Just to bring up the passat LCA + Mk3 (non gti/VR6) knuckles combo again... does the passat LCA require a switch to the longer MK3 axles? And by Passat, we are talking the B3 (88-92) yes?



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DG_Rally
Dave Grenwis
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Re: VW Mk2 control arm reinforcement
October 23, 2014 04:34PM
Quote
Towona
Just to bring up the passat LCA + Mk3 (non gti/VR6) knuckles combo again... does the passat LCA require a switch to the longer MK3 axles? And by Passat, we are talking the B3 (88-92) yes?

Yes. MK3 Tie rods would be a good idea too.



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2014 04:35PM by DG_Rally.
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Robert Culbertson
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Re: VW Mk2 control arm reinforcement
October 23, 2014 05:17PM
90-97 4 cyl Passat cv axles will work. Control arms from 88-97.
Definitely will want the inner tie-rods (outers are the same)
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danster
Danny McGee
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Re: VW Mk2 control arm reinforcement
October 23, 2014 05:33PM
Tony, not sure what rack you use but just a heads up.
The steering tie rods for PAS and manual steering racks are different where they screw on to the rack. Male for PAS, and female for manual.
So manual tie rods needed for a manual rack, and PAS tie rods for a PAS rack, the tie rods are not interchangeable between the two types.



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Chris Eyre
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Re: VW Mk2 control arm reinforcement
October 23, 2014 05:57PM
Quote
Towona
Just to bring up the passat LCA + Mk3 (non gti/VR6) knuckles combo again... does the passat LCA require a switch to the longer MK3 axles? And by Passat, we are talking the B3 (88-92) yes?

The Mk3 non gti VR6 knuckles I understand to be the same knuckles as Mk2 and Passat 4-stud B3 or B4 knuckles.

When using Passat wishbones/LCAs with Passat/Mk2/Mk3 non gti/VR6 knuckles, always use Passat driveshafts.

The driveshafts all have different lengths for these installation.

These arms come from B3 and B4 Passat which is the same suspension-wise: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Passat_(B4)





Maybe, just maybe, it’s down to the driver.

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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2014 05:59PM by Chris Eyre.
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DG_Rally
Dave Grenwis
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Re: VW Mk2 control arm reinforcement
October 23, 2014 06:39PM
Quote
Chris Eyre
The Mk3 non gti VR6 knuckles I understand to be the same knuckles as Mk2 and Passat 4-stud B3 or B4 knuckles.

When using Passat wishbones/LCAs with Passat/Mk2/Mk3 non gti/VR6 knuckles, always use Passat driveshafts.

Mk3 non vr6 knuckles are not the same as Mk2, in North America anyway. The pickup points are the same but they are different in appearance and brakes are bigger.

Mk3 driveshafts work just fine. Mk3 non vr6 control arms and passat 4 cyl control arms have the same dimensions. So no need to go crazy with lengths. Finding old passat driveshafts will prove to be a chore so mk3's are my preference.

Mk3 inner tie-rods are longer and work just fine mk2 power racks, thats what I'm currently running. I used mk2 tie-rods on my manual rack but there was not much room for adjustment, a tad sketchy as you'll be running out of threads. Manual racks are rare in NA so that doesn't apply to most.

On my Mk2 I have B3 passat 4 cyl control arms, mk3 driveshafts, mk3 tie-rods, mk2 power rack, mk3 knuckles and JVAB struts. Not that it matters but I'm running an 02a and its got a welded diff. It works great, I just did LSPR with no issues.



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