Construction Zone
Don\
Welcome! Log In Register

Advanced

Mk2 vw transmission ratios?

Posted by Kurt Thiel 
Kurt Thiel
Infallible Moderator
Join Date: 07/26/2014
Posts: 25


Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
July 27, 2014 04:34AM
Mk 2 vw 020 transmission ratios? Final drive ratio? Any suggestions? Should I give up on the 020 gearbox and get something stronger?
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Pete
Pete Remner
Mod Moderator
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Join Date: 01/11/2006
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 1,927


Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
July 27, 2014 09:09AM
Can you even get 020 diffs anymore? All I ever see are Quaife.



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Rallymech
Robert Gobright
Senior Moderator
Location: White Center Seattle
Join Date: 04/27/2008
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 1,287

Rally Car:
91 VW GTI 8V


Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
July 27, 2014 10:51AM
Kaaz and Gripper have units available.



Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
MattP
Matt Pullen
Senior Moderator
Location: Calgary
Join Date: 10/22/2013
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 257

Rally Car:
2002 Ford StRanger


Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
July 27, 2014 11:08AM
This might help,

http://www.4crawler.com/Diesel/VW_020_transmission.shtml



Yes, it's a Ranger.
Xr4Ti, it is rwd and was made in Germany.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
LBvr6
Kevin Anderson
Junior Moderator
Location: Oceanside, CA
Join Date: 07/27/2014
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 2

Rally Car:
87 VW gti


Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
July 27, 2014 01:17PM
Quote
Pete
Can you even get 020 diffs anymore? All I ever see are Quaife.

Diff applications

Hello everyone, I just found this site and happy that I did. I'm starting a car build with an '87 gti and have done a bit of research on what gear box I want to use. I've decided to stay 020 at the moment because of budget.

But, once the car is "complete" I'll be switching to an 02A using 02J shift tower, cables and shifter. The first motor for the car will be N/A and I may run the final drive from a MK4 2.0 8v. Using an 02A opens up a lot more variation. Not sure about your location but I have more access to 02A/02J than I do 020.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Elite Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,994

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
July 27, 2014 02:03PM
Quote
LBvr6
Quote
Pete
Can you even get 020 diffs anymore? All I ever see are Quaife.

Diff applications

Hello everyone, I just found this site and happy that I did. I'm starting a car build with an '87 gti and have done a bit of research on what gear box I want to use. I've decided to stay 020 at the moment because of budget.

But, once the car is "complete" I'll be switching to an 02A using 02J shift tower, cables and shifter. The first motor for the car will be N/A and I may run the final drive from a MK4 2.0 8v. Using an 02A opens up a lot more variation. Not sure about your location but I have more access to 02A/02J than I do 020.

First welcome.
Second--this forum requires a full first and last name SOMEWHERE and location, so "Oceanside, CA" not "Socal"

Second why not say Hi! and tell us who ya are and what you do what you've done, ya Noez an Introduction...

Then you might tell us why if you've a been a VW watercool foo wait, water cooled FAN, that's it FAN since 10-11 years ----you've "done some research" what detail of that research you found----just because its "what everybody says" doesn't mean its right, or even sensible...

And please, I pray to you, please don't tell me you're thinking of using a VR6 motor---its been done, its no point....(if you were, and i only ask because your cutsie-name has VR6 in it---we may as well start trying to talk sense into you now)

So whaddya done?? Any racing of any kind?



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2014 02:30PM by john vanlandingham.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
LBvr6
Kevin Anderson
Junior Moderator
Location: Oceanside, CA
Join Date: 07/27/2014
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 2

Rally Car:
87 VW gti


Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
July 27, 2014 02:44PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
First welcome.
Second--this forum requires a full first and last name SOMEWHERE and location, so "Oceanside, CA" not "Socal"

Second why not say Hi! and tell us who ya are and what you do what you've done, ya Noez an Introcduction...

Then you might tell us why if you've a been a VW watercool foo wait, water cooled FAN, that's it FAN since 10-11 years ----you've "done some research" what detail of that research you found----just because its "what everybody says" doesn't mean its right, or even sensible...

And please, I pray to you, please don't tell me you're thinking of using a VR6 motor---its been done, its no point....(if you were, and i only ask because your cutsie-name has VR6 in it---we may as well start trying to talk sense into you now)

So whaddya done?? Any racing of any kind?

Not meaning to high jack the thread but I'll make it quick. I have an '86 gti with a vr6 - hence the screen name and that is my screen name for other forums. My daily is a '91 8v and just got my '80 Rabbit diesel road worthy. I own 2 caddy's and other project/parts cars as well. I've done road racing and autoX but no rally. But that is why I am here!

Back to gear boxes. I have a parts hoard of 020's for my mk1/2/3's, some 02J's, a few 02A's for my vr and a couple 4cyl versions as well. The 02J and 02A are different but have some interchangable peices. It takes some work to fit a hydraulic clutch into a mk2 but not impossible, like you said it's been done before. I personally like switching out to mk3 subframe, b3 passat front cross, vr axles, vr control arms/knuckles, running mk3 motor mounts, yada yada when going to a hydraulic clutch. It all depends on what parts you have access to. I don't like going to an 02A without having the supporting componets. I've never been a fan of the cable conversion.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
fliz
Chad Eixenberger
Super Moderator
Location: Grafton, WI
Join Date: 02/01/2007
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 484

Rally Car:
1988 VW Golf #687


Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
July 28, 2014 03:50PM
I still have 020.

I run AUG box w/ a .91 5th swapped in.

4.46 final drive purchased through a group buy JVL set up a few years back.

Kaaz diff, runs great on stage but hasn't ever driven me out of a stage w/ a broken axle.

I've broken a couple 020 boxes, stripped out second and third. Current build has been reliable except for a bent synchro collar that forced me to run half a rally without second gear.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
DexterVW
David Baker
Mod Moderator
Location: Rhode my Island
Join Date: 11/20/2008
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 290

Rally Car:
95 GTI TDI


Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
July 29, 2014 02:09PM
I thought it was 7 broken ones to one good one... at least thats the average around these parts. :-)

Good luck with the build LBvrSex
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Kurt Thiel
Infallible Moderator
Join Date: 07/26/2014
Posts: 25


Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
July 29, 2014 08:30PM
I wonder how many of these broken gear boxes came from cars that have rigid motor mounts and not the stock style rubber mounts? It seamed like I never had transmission problems until I stiffend up the mounts to keep the engine from bouncing around.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
hoche
Michel Hoche-Mong
Mega Moderator
Location: Campbell, CA
Join Date: 02/28/2006
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 1,124

Rally Car:
Golf, Golf, RX-3



Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
July 29, 2014 09:54PM
I personally have never broken an 02O or had problems with it.

YMMV.



Self-righteous douche canoe
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Kurt Thiel
Infallible Moderator
Join Date: 07/26/2014
Posts: 25


Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
July 30, 2014 06:54AM
I have had 3 go bad in one season. I talked with Jon Nichols ( the quick VW at the time in the late 90s) and asked him how much he spent on his Gemini gearbox and he said 15 k Canadian . That wasn't a option . I have not had any gearbox issues with the new car yet (after 5 events)but I am sure that I may because of past experience with them. Even my road race golfs, I have several, would have issues after several races.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
wildert
Brian Klausen
Mega Moderator
Location: Denmark
Join Date: 03/21/2006
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 388

Rally Car:
VW Golf GTi 16V


Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
August 11, 2014 09:35AM
Just to chime in.
I have been rallying a Mk2 for over 10 years now. Started as a stock 8V GTi (euro), and progressed from there.

The first iteration had a slightly warmed over cam in the 8V, and I got a 4.64 FD along with a Quaife in the 020. This tranny was carried over to when I built a 16V, which has been upgraded.

I used the 020 2Y with the 4.64 and Quaife for something like 6-7 seasons - possibly 8 or 9 - can't be bothered to check smiling smiley, and it did well.
The latest iteration of the 16V turned out just under 175 hp @ ~7300 rpm on the crank.
Last year it finally gave up - I had a collar go crooked so we lost 1st.

It was a fairly decent box for the budget, but having to open it up, I wanted an upgrade while I was in there.
First of all the 4.64 meant that 1st was just about useless and second, the 16V was becoming a bit cammy, so the ~2900 rpm drop from 1st to 2nd, and the ~2400 rpm ditto from 2nd to 3rd, was not too funny. Obviously the drops in the higher gears are not really all that good either, but still better since that is how it goes.
Third, the topspeed @7500 rpm in 5th was something like 195 kph (just under 120 mph or so) - much too high for what we need. Even the S2000's do around 170 kph on their tall gearing with almost double the power we have.

I looked into different gearsets, but for 020's you'll mainly see 6 speed sets which I couldn't use due to class rules, and/or dog-based sets which I didn't want due to price of parts, maintenance, etc. Also: it was honestly a bit too much mony for me smiling smiley.

For 02A's you get much more to chose from, but since I am on 020 now, I would need a new donor box + a new diff + the gearset. That would be even more expensive, though a real good solution both in the future and now (one of the guys from my club has one from SQS - awesome...).

I did manage to come by MTS Motorsport (www.mts-motorsport.com - NOT .de) in Germany. They produce a range of different solutions for 020, 02A, 02J and other brands. For 020 they do new 3rd, 4th and 5th in a range of ratios - and this became interesting.
With the use of a 3,92 FD from a diesel box (that you can actually buy from MTS as well), that has the tall 1st same as the GTI "CR"-boxes (close ratio - yeah right), and the tall 2nd from those as well, and carefully choosing 3rd, 4th and 5th from their range, I was able to come up with a transmission that has ratios very close to MTS' own dog set, and SQS' synchro set for 02A. Only difference in ratio is that 1st is low for a motorsport box, but it is still taller than 1st in my old 4.64 FD box, so still an improvement for me.

I still have the 2900 rpm drop from 1st to 2nd obviously, but from there the numbers are: 1557, 1473 and 1000.

I made a chart to compare (it assumes 7500 rpm redline and it is in kph).


The replacement gears are wider, and with bigger "teeth", so an improvement in strength as well, though obviously not in 1st and 2nd.

Obviously there is always something better out there, but it gave me ratios close-to-true motorsport CR gear set, for around a third of the price (the replacement gears - on an exchange-for-stock-basis are 350€ a piece).
Obviously there are other benefits to the real deal, but since I haven't had issues with the 020 holding up to the power, I consider it a good compromise.

So does it work? Absolutely - no other changes to the car, and we are a lot more competitive in our class now - a lot. So much so that others have been asking us what we've done to the car.

So - to answer the question: what to go for? It depends on your budget, what you have, etc. But I feel that there are options in many price ranges for the 020 as well.

If you are starting out from scratch I would base things on the 02A for sure - but if you for instance have a diff already for the 020, then don't be scared of staying there.



Brgrds
Brian

Please Login or Register to post a reply
Kurt Thiel
Infallible Moderator
Join Date: 07/26/2014
Posts: 25


Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
August 12, 2014 02:59PM
Thanks Brian, This was very helpfull. Kurt.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
wildert
Brian Klausen
Mega Moderator
Location: Denmark
Join Date: 03/21/2006
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 388

Rally Car:
VW Golf GTi 16V


Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
August 12, 2014 03:23PM
You are very welcome.

And by the way: I have solid mounts, and have had them longer than the short FD - still only one transmission failure in at least 100 events (shorter - much shorter - than what you know, but hard on the drive line with tight bends, etc.).



Brgrds
Brian

Please Login or Register to post a reply
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login