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Mk2 vw transmission ratios?

Posted by Kurt Thiel 
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
August 12, 2014 05:32PM
Quote
wildert
You are very welcome.

And by the way: I have solid mounts, and have had them longer than the short FD - still only one transmission failure in at least 100 events (shorter - much shorter - than what you know, but hard on the drive line with tight bends, etc.).

Hej Wildis, I just sent the Tyskarna a note about final drives.. I didn't read hard you post---and it was yesterday and that's a long time ago..
Did you say you got a few of their gears? Like a "half kit? Can you say again maybe with their part numbers?

You know what would be fun? Can you plot the stock 020 "GTI" ratios in your chart as a baseline....That would help people graphically see what they are starting from.
So few of the newbs understand the interplay between box ratios and final drive.



John Vanlandingham
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wildert
Brian Klausen
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Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
August 13, 2014 09:09AM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Hej Wildis, I just sent the Tyskarna a note about final drives.. I didn't read hard you post---and it was yesterday and that's a long time ago..
Did you say you got a few of their gears? Like a "half kit? Can you say again maybe with their part numbers?

Yeah - I got new 3rd, 4th and 5th.
In the 020, 1st is machined from the actual pinion shaft, and IIRC 2nd is machined from the input shaft. That is why it gets expensive to get all 5 gears in new ratios.

But 3rd, 4th and 5th slide on and off the shafts in pairs, and thus can be changed - either one, two or all three of them.

I don't remember exactly the parts numbers I got, and I'm too lazy to look them up. But the selection is here: http://www.mts-motorsport.com/epages/61752271.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61752271/Categories/Getriebetechnik/Gangpaare/%22VW%20020%20/%2002K%20Getriebe%22

Note - 4th comes in two varieties, depending on whether it is a "16V" box (24 mm. inputshaft) or regular box. MTS produces 4th gears for both.

Quote

You know what would be fun? Can you plot the stock 020 "GTI" ratios in your chart as a baseline....That would help people graphically see what they are starting from.
So few of the newbs understand the interplay between box ratios and final drive.

Sure. I changed the speed to mph for you guys.
What I got is the orange line.
Stock 16V box is the yellow line.
My previous config - 2Y w. 4.64 FD is the blue line.
And the grey line is just for reference a full motorsport gearset from MTS as well. Dog engagement and all. It actually matches one of SQS' sets quite good.



Lastly I fiddled the spreadsheet a bit, so you can download it here:
http://files.lbrt.dk/Transmissions-US.xlsx

The change from kph to mph and general translation was real quick, so please report any errors.



Brgrds
Brian





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2014 09:12AM by wildert.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
August 13, 2014 10:15AM
Quote
wildert
Quote
john vanlandingham
Hej Wildis, I just sent the Tyskarna a note about final drives.. I didn't read hard you post---and it was yesterday and that's a long time ago..
Did you say you got a few of their gears? Like a "half kit? Can you say again maybe with their part numbers?

Yeah - I got new 3rd, 4th and 5th.
In the 020, 1st is machined from the actual pinion shaft, and IIRC 2nd is machined from the input shaft. That is why it gets expensive to get all 5 gears in new ratios.

But 3rd, 4th and 5th slide on and off the shafts in pairs, and thus can be changed - either one, two or all three of them.

I don't remember exactly the parts numbers I got, and I'm too lazy to look them up. But the selection is here: http://www.mts-motorsport.com/epages/61752271.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61752271/Categories/Getriebetechnik/Gangpaare/%22VW%20020%20/%2002K%20Getriebe%22

Note - 4th comes in two varieties, depending on whether it is a "16V" box (24 mm. inputshaft) or regular box. MTS produces 4th gears for both.

Quote

You know what would be fun? Can you plot the stock 020 "GTI" ratios in your chart as a baseline....That would help people graphically see what they are starting from.
So few of the newbs understand the interplay between box ratios and final drive.

Sure. I changed the speed to mph for you guys.
What I got is the orange line.
Stock 16V box is the yellow line.
My previous config - 2Y w. 4.64 FD is the blue line.
And the grey line is just for reference a full motorsport gearset from MTS as well. Dog engagement and all. It actually matches one of SQS' sets quite good.



Lastly I fiddled the spreadsheet a bit, so you can download it here:
http://files.lbrt.dk/Transmissions-US.xlsx

The change from kph to mph and general translation was real quick, so please report any errors.

Hör du Brian-putten, sötisen kära Wildis-ert min, är det bara mig som är så gammalt och styv och dum i pannan att jag måste har all ting som jag är van----eller är det nåt som fattas på x axis?

Du har nu MPH upp o ner ^ but shouldn't there be something like RPM on the > this axis?



John Vanlandingham
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wildert
Brian Klausen
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Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
August 13, 2014 10:38AM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Hör du Brian-putten, sötisen kära Wildis-ert min, är det bara mig som är så gammalt och styv och dum i pannan att jag måste har all ting som jag är van----eller är det nåt som fattas på x axis?

Du har nu MPH upp o ner ^ but shouldn't there be something like RPM on the > this axis?

Det kommer an på hvordan grafen skal bruges. Det kom sig af at jeg primært ville se fald af motoromdrejninger fra gear til gear i mit regneark, samt at jeg sigtede efter ca. 170-175 km/t som topfart i femte gear på et 195/50-15 dæk. Så grafen viser hastigheden af bilen i hvert af de fem gear ved en fast motorhastighed.

Det gør i bund og grund det samme når det mest handler om at sammenligne gearsæt.

And in case that the Danish was a bit hard to read:
It depends on how/what you want to use the chart for. In my spreadsheet I specifically wanted to examine the drop in rpms from gear to gear in different configurations. At the same time I was aiming for a top speed of around 170-175 km/t in fifth on a 195/50-15 tire.
Thus the chart shows the speed of the car in each of the five gears, at a set engine speed.

It sorta does the same thing in showing the different gearsets for comparison.



Brgrds
Brian

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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
August 13, 2014 11:35AM
Quote
wildert
Quote
john vanlandingham
Hör du Brian-putten, sötisen kära Wildis-ert min, är det bara mig som är så gammalt och styv och dum i pannan att jag måste har all ting som jag är van----eller är det nåt som fattas på x axis?

Du har nu MPH upp o ner ^ but shouldn't there be something like RPM on the > this axis?

Det kommer an på hvordan grafen skal bruges. Det kom sig af at jeg primært ville se fald af motoromdrejninger fra gear til gear i mit regneark, samt at jeg sigtede efter ca. 170-175 km/t som topfart i femte gear på et 195/50-15 dæk. Så grafen viser hastigheden af bilen i hvert af de fem gear ved en fast motorhastighed.

Det gør i bund og grund det samme når det mest handler om at sammenligne gearsæt.

And in case that the Danish was a bit hard to read:
It depends on how/what you want to use the chart for. In my spreadsheet I specifically wanted to examine the drop in rpms from gear to gear in different configurations. At the same time I was aiming for a top speed of around 170-175 km/t in fifth on a 195/50-15 tire.
Thus the chart shows the speed of the car in each of the five gears, at a set engine speed.

It sorta does the same thing in showing the different gearsets for comparison.

Det är inte 'vanskligt' att läsa, inte ett dugg o lika lätt som norska, men fie fan va svårt det är a snacka dansk...herre gud!



John Vanlandingham
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Kurt Thiel
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Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
August 14, 2014 07:49PM
Ok this is what I can come up with swapping gears from transmissions laying around the shop. 1st 3.45 2nd 1.94 3rd 1.42 4th 1.13 5th .91 with a 4.46 r/p thoughts or ideas?
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john vanlandingham
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Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
August 14, 2014 10:37PM
Gotta go pain, Kurt but got an answer from the Saxons, they have 'em in stock and can do Pay-pal. UPS so sendd me your mailing addy and zip for finger out UPS chargesd... oh and the price listed include MST--their VAT so I think its 15% added so it'll be less.

I'll look at gears later..

OH they do have ssome used stuff, I'm gonna ask 'em if any good used anything.

No point in going to crazy if your going back to fambly roots and doing a "nice' car.



John Vanlandingham
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wvonkessler
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Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
August 14, 2014 11:42PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
No point in going to crazy if your going back to fambly roots and doing a "nice' car.

No Volvo. Shame. That Group A is still in Thiel hands.



"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?"
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wildert
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Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
August 15, 2014 04:38AM
Quote
Kurt Thiel
Ok this is what I can come up with swapping gears from transmissions laying around the shop. 1st 3.45 2nd 1.94 3rd 1.42 4th 1.13 5th .91 with a 4.46 r/p thoughts or ideas?

That is basically a 2Y (16V box) I think, with the tall 2nd.
Obviously it really depends on what you are going to do with it, and your engine characteristics.

All of the below is based on a 7500 rpm rev limit, which is my reality.

You will get a nasty almost 3300 rpm drop from 1st to 2nd, but if it is for stage rally, and the roads in 'Murica are as fast and straight as I keep hearing, then that may be of less consequence, since you'll only see 1st at the start line of each stage.

On the plus side, the drop from 2nd to 3rd is only 2000 rpm. For a box made from stock parts, that could be much worse.

I don't know the redline of your engine, but the topspeed at 7500 rpm with a 195/50-15 wheel (which is possibly small compared to your reality - thus you will get even higher top speed) is in excess of 120 mph - is this really relevant?

If you only rev to 6500 (8V maybe?) then the numbers get better.
1st to 2nd is "only" 2850 rpm, and 2nd to 3rd is just under 1800 rpm. Top speed is around 110 mph with the 195/50-15 tire.



Brgrds
Brian

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wildert
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Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
August 15, 2014 04:41AM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Gotta go pain, Kurt but got an answer from the Saxons, they have 'em in stock and can do Pay-pal. UPS so sendd me your mailing addy and zip for finger out UPS chargesd... oh and the price listed include MST--their VAT so I think its 15% added so it'll be less.

It's 19% added - so if you subtract 16% (multiply by 0.84) from the amount incl. VAT, you'll get the ex VAT (Mwst) amount.



Brgrds
Brian

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Kurt Thiel
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Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
August 15, 2014 07:24AM
It is 9a 8 v box with different second and fifth. It is close to the 8v ms box except 1st . I cannot do anything with first gear without major expense.
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derek
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Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
August 15, 2014 12:29PM
I used the Gemini VW Motorsports Box and found the 108-110 MPH top speed at 8,500 RPM more then plenty for most of the US and Canadian Roads. Sure the Race Track at Portland International was a bit boring on the rev limiter but only for 30 or 40 seconds - and the rally is won or lost in the woods not the Micky Mouse stages.

The 3.xx 1st is worthless I think mine was 2.1 or some thing like that with a 4.2 final, 5th was 1.2 so the whole box was supper short.

It took a lot of digging but I found the 020 Gemini box for $3250 used. It was truly fantastic. They are out there somewhere. I never broke it with solid mounts - but it was the motorsports box.

I like what Widert has done.



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john vanlandingham
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Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
August 16, 2014 09:41AM
Quote
wildert
Quote
john vanlandingham
Gotta go pain, Kurt but got an answer from the Saxons, they have 'em in stock and can do Pay-pal. UPS so sendd me your mailing addy and zip for finger out UPS chargesd... oh and the price listed include MST--their VAT so I think its 15% added so it'll be less.

It's 19% added - so if you subtract 16% (multiply by 0.84) from the amount incl. VAT, you'll get the ex VAT (Mwst) amount.


As they might say; Neunzehn propcent! Gott im Himmel! Verdammte scheisse!. neunzehn procent!!!
Rauberei!

Or some such bullshit.



John Vanlandingham
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wildert
Brian Klausen
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Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
August 16, 2014 03:20PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
wildert
Quote
john vanlandingham
Gotta go pain, Kurt but got an answer from the Saxons, they have 'em in stock and can do Pay-pal. UPS so sendd me your mailing addy and zip for finger out UPS chargesd... oh and the price listed include MST--their VAT so I think its 15% added so it'll be less.

It's 19% added - so if you subtract 16% (multiply by 0.84) from the amount incl. VAT, you'll get the ex VAT (Mwst) amount.


As they might say; Neunzehn propcent! Gott im Himmel! Verdammte scheisse!. neunzehn procent!!!
Rauberei!

Or some such bullshit.

It is 25% in my neck of the woods - so no complaining...



Brgrds
Brian

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Josh Wimpey
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Re: Mk2 vw transmission ratios?
August 18, 2014 12:49PM
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6878352-FS-VW-Motorsport-8V-gear



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