Rally seats I have yet to see a decent head wing vs. no head wing discussion. I like them as they prevent stuff like this: [img]http://nocoastmotorsports.net/Images/headbouncy.JPG[/img] On the other hand, I know of two women who have suffered decent head trauma following accidents with a headwing seat. One, Krista, the head trauma was potentially better than the alternative. The second was a friend at a hill climb, went off road into a field at ~80 and nosed down and bounced back and forth, no roll, and the driver was 100% fine in a non-headwing seat whereas codriver was airlifted to Denver with head trauma from ping ponging between the wings. I know I personally will only use seats with them in my rally car but thought I'd see what others thought. https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101522#msg-101522 Wed, 08 Apr 2026 06:22:00 -0500 Phorum 5.2.15a https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,102332#msg-102332 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,102332#msg-102332 at this time i have about $2k in the car and i still need a cage]]> tdrrally Rally Chat Wed, 29 Oct 2014 15:16:10 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,102322#msg-102322 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,102322#msg-102322
They are larger seats, I'm 6'2'' 200, my dad is probably 6'2'' 230. We both fit in them comfortably.

If you're small you may need to add some bolster to the sides, my wife is 5' 110 and she looks and fits in the seat like a little child.]]> czwalga Rally Chat Wed, 29 Oct 2014 11:55:24 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,102321#msg-102321 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,102321#msg-102321
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tdrrally
$400 is not cheap !!!

to many folks in this country that is a weeks pay on a good week

I meant cheap in the grand scheme of things when it comes to rallying. I agree, $400 is a lot of money, even in a "middle class hobby" sense.]]> HiTempguy Rally Chat Wed, 29 Oct 2014 11:17:16 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,102299#msg-102299 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,102299#msg-102299
to many folks in this country that is a weeks pay on a good week]]> tdrrally Rally Chat Tue, 28 Oct 2014 19:54:36 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,102298#msg-102298 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,102298#msg-102298
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tdrrally

but there needs to be a lower cost option out there!

Its called "bimarco" and their FIA seats are swell. Hard to complain at under $400 shipped, get a groupbuy together like on of our Alberta guys did.

Also, I just bought a Momo START fibreglass seat from the USofA. $450us with free shipping is pretty damn good for a seat that will last 5+ years if the rules hold out. As an added bonus, it fits me perfectly :D]]> HiTempguy Rally Chat Tue, 28 Oct 2014 19:29:34 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,102297#msg-102297 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,102297#msg-102297
and the amount of cash they gave the FIA i would guess

i have used and alloy stock seat for a rally, and a fiberglass shell seat for a few
lesson learned

but there needs to be a lower cost option out there!]]> tdrrally Rally Chat Tue, 28 Oct 2014 18:55:00 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,102293#msg-102293 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,102293#msg-102293
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tdrrally
so what's the difference between a plastic, fiberglass or aluminum seat with a cover and a fiberglass seat with a cover and an fia stick?

The ability to race in NASA or CARS?]]> NoCoast Rally Chat Tue, 28 Oct 2014 16:46:30 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,102280#msg-102280 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,102280#msg-102280 tdrrally Rally Chat Tue, 28 Oct 2014 14:56:57 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,102141#msg-102141 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,102141#msg-102141 bknblk2 Rally Chat Fri, 24 Oct 2014 15:44:00 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,102069#msg-102069 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,102069#msg-102069
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MattWatson
After crashing twice in Bobsleigh and sliding on my head (literally, you push your head into the ice to try to get your shoulders off of it) for more than 2 minutes combined time, you would be surprised at how little damage shows up on a helmet.
Being 6' tall and after climbing into countless tight fitting cars with painted cages, interiors, and surrounded by roll cage padding.... I can assure you helmets get scuffed up in normal day to day use.]]> Morison Rally Chat Thu, 23 Oct 2014 12:52:26 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,102001#msg-102001 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,102001#msg-102001
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Morison
Are you suggesting I must have some form of brain injury?

Yes, the car has winged seats on both sides. The helmet shows surprisingly little more scuffing than before.

After crashing twice in Bobsleigh and sliding on my head (literally, you push your head into the ice to try to get your shoulders off of it) for more than 2 minutes combined time, you would be surprised at how little damage shows up on a helmet. Ony my first crash you could only tell because I broke a vent. The second crash a scrape showed up because I went airborne and landed.

Also: the cheaper the helmet, the less damage shows up. We had a driver that ran Formula Ford before he started sliding and he crashed twice and ruined two 700$ helmets in his first week... he bought something a little cheaper after that.]]> MattWatson Rally Chat Tue, 21 Oct 2014 16:09:25 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101616#msg-101616 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101616#msg-101616
Yes, the car has winged seats on both sides. The helmet shows surprisingly little more scuffing than before.]]> Morison Rally Chat Fri, 10 Oct 2014 13:35:12 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101615#msg-101615 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101615#msg-101615 MattP Rally Chat Fri, 10 Oct 2014 13:30:46 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101614#msg-101614 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101614#msg-101614
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MattP
Stu didn't have winged seats in the Subaru ,when I recovered it I took a look at his helmet there were at least 2 big strikes from the cage to it. Even if you have winged seats if the belts aren't properly fitted and damn tight you will still bounce around like a demented hula girl.
Fixed that for you...
In an accident, even with properly fitted and tightened belts, you'd be shocked at how far the body will move.]]> Morison Rally Chat Fri, 10 Oct 2014 13:25:49 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101613#msg-101613 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101613#msg-101613 MattP Rally Chat Fri, 10 Oct 2014 13:20:52 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101612#msg-101612 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101612#msg-101612
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imnotcrazy
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heymagic
NASA only requires FIA seats for NRS logged cars, not for RA logged cars.
How does the CARS 10 years apply (Yea, I could dig in the rule book, but its a simple question easily answered here by those in the know)? Only to CARS log booked cars or to any car running one of their events?
At present, CARS measures competitor and vehicle safety gear based on the license being used by the driver. (Canadian residents MUST run on a CARS license)
So, if you have a RA license and are running on a 'permit to compete' in Canada, your NASA logbooked car, and your personal safety gear, would have to meet RA standards.]]> Morison Rally Chat Fri, 10 Oct 2014 13:10:48 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101609#msg-101609 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101609#msg-101609 tdrrally Rally Chat Fri, 10 Oct 2014 12:33:28 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101607#msg-101607 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101607#msg-101607
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heymagic
NASA only requires FIA seats for NRS logged cars, not for RA logged cars.
How does the CARS 10 years apply (Yea, I could dig in the rule book, but its a simple question easily answered here by those in the know)? Only to CARS log booked cars or to any car running one of their events?]]> imnotcrazy Rally Chat Fri, 10 Oct 2014 12:20:24 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101600#msg-101600 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101600#msg-101600
I don't think wings should come into play on a rally road, they should just be there. Maybe you hit one once in a while but no ping pong while still rallying, only when the shit hits the fan. I can see it being a bit different in the desert stuff as their range of motion is a bit (well lot) more. We need to be able to see out of the damned cars in traffic and since a rally is 1/2 to 2/3 transits that has to be considered. We don't have spotters and aren't all going the same way. Tight wings would likely be a wrong answer then.

Cars with the main hoop to 1/2 lateral bar could have that area modified to be a wing of sorts. A bit of sheet steel or carbon fiber and some of that good sheet foam padding. The inside area could be dealt with by those nets and offsetting the seats from each other.

One issue I've noticed with some combinations is you can't hardly get in or out of the cars. Between the wings, 1/2lat support, A pillar support, door bar and steering wheel it gets stoopid tight sometimes. The Sube wagon that Eric Lyden built was one of those. I don't know how he got in or out. Must be a tall skinny thing because I could barely make it work without a helmet on.]]> heymagic Rally Chat Fri, 10 Oct 2014 10:40:00 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101596#msg-101596 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101596#msg-101596 stgallagher Rally Chat Fri, 10 Oct 2014 09:07:36 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101595#msg-101595 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101595#msg-101595
Being one of the foolish folks who prefers to sit on the correct side of the car, I've had an opportunity to sit in a bunch of the differnet seats out there. Of all of those, the only wing seats that seem to fit well are the RaceTech XLs, the original OMP HTE 400, and the Momo XLs. I'm 5'11, but blame my birthing hips for lack of fitmet into the "manlier" "petite" European driver model sized carbon fiber buckets.

I've not sat in the OMPs at speed, but have in the RaceTechs and Momos. At Black River this year, I ran a the Momo for the first time in our GC Subaru, and had a moment of ping-pong as well due to the undulation of the road [read L5/kick R6/kick L5-/jump]. While I don't specifically remember the level of padding on the RaceTech, having run RWV and Sandblast with them, I don't remember the ping-pong being an issue. At ESPR, the same Momo was in an E46 M3, where we saw no issues throughout both days.

For the Momo, there's somewhere between an inch and an inch and a half to each side of my XL Peltor G78, so we're not talking a ton of range of motion nor time to build up the p. That said, the event was signifigant enough to make me take metal pause as my head prepared to play pumpkin chunkin, and then realize that perhaps I should keep reading the story book I had in my lap.

Sans more padding [moar is more betterer, right?] to change the Youngs Modulus of the side of the seat, and thereby reduce the ping-pong, I don't know what I'd change. However, I'm not so sure the ping-pong is a function of hitting one side and rebounding, so much as the car itself seeing high +/- roll rates through the event. I suppose more stage mileage will tell, but first we need to put a motor back together after playing melt the piston.]]> X Monâ„¢ Rally Chat Fri, 10 Oct 2014 08:17:36 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101594#msg-101594 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101594#msg-101594
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tdrrally
this is the seat i really want to use
this seat has shoulder wings and is designed for racing

http://www.mastercraftsafety.com/performance-seats/racing-seats/3g.html
last time i spoke tho master craft they told me the seat was fia approvable but they did not want to pay the fia. i don't blame them for that at]]> tdrrally Rally Chat Fri, 10 Oct 2014 07:06:50 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101593#msg-101593 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101593#msg-101593 Doivi Clarkinen Rally Chat Fri, 10 Oct 2014 04:32:42 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101592#msg-101592 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101592#msg-101592
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heymagic
Ya, you're actually a bit lucky the damage was repairable also or at least improvable. Any suspicions that arthritis will follow? I've had that off and on since childhood. Sucks.

Both sides of the fambly, and early for them..me, since there were so many broken bones, ripped ligaments, torn cartilages all over the place BUT I was in significantly better shape than average---and the whole nature of my existence--AND the character trait i admired most was endurance---I never noticed the rheumatoid stuff....till after some of the spine shit was rebuilt and that pain disappeared---then I noticed... right should, right hip, wrist on right (previously broke both bones at the wrist....
Every day wifey is off we go for long walks at good pace.. usually around 1h 45m or more..., feel much better after...]]> john vanlandingham Rally Chat Thu, 09 Oct 2014 23:12:29 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101590#msg-101590 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101590#msg-101590 heymagic Rally Chat Thu, 09 Oct 2014 22:17:25 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101589#msg-101589 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101589#msg-101589
Can't get people to think, much less think ahead.]]> john vanlandingham Rally Chat Thu, 09 Oct 2014 21:10:33 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101588#msg-101588 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101588#msg-101588

I'm sure there are great seats that aren't FIA approved but I would be careful on what I bought. Fleabay clones maybe not so much. Something used in SCORE or similar heck ya. I will still personally look at winged seats. Depends on the seats. I sat in some that the wings were low enough to press my shoulders. I'm not tall but pretty stocky. Skinny butt and big shoulders and chest. Seats (and helmets) are so iffy on the fit..and the fit is critical really to both comfort and safety.

After my above mentioned Datsun roll a couple friends went together at Xmas and bought me a Kevlar based Simpson (maybe Bell ..been a few decades) helmet. OMG was that thing light compared to the normal old Bell I had. Quality helmets are really a consideration in my book.

Irregardless of one's personal opinion on the winged/non-winged seat I'll put forth a couple things to think about. We race fairly small cars, during a roll or side impact you will very likely hit the cage, window, B pillar and or your partners helmet. The farther your head travels before impact the greater the impact and more cranial damage as well as neck muscle, tendon and vertebrae damage. Distance usually increases speed and force, think shove versus punch. Maybe the ping pong thing can be reduced with tighter wings, maybe it is a bigger risk..I doubt the latter but I don't know. All of this safety stuff gets weighed ..risk against cost against effectiveness. Rally forever has tended to set a minimum standard and some people still fuss. Just like the padding thing, or misplaced header bars or 1/2 laterals that are too far inward. We continually gain insight into the actual damage done to brains by impacts. Damage may take years to show up..look at Ali for a great example. Brilliant mind, amazing athlete and a horrible demise to Parkinsons. It's your head and sooner or later it will get bumped. I don't have a good answer on what you should do effectively protect it, but do the best you can and hope like hell it works.]]> heymagic Rally Chat Thu, 09 Oct 2014 21:05:24 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101585#msg-101585 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101585#msg-101585
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wvonkessler
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tdrrally
my question is why does nasa rallysport require fia seats?

Because at the time the rule was adopted - which was when NRS published its first ruleset, there was no requirement in rally for certification of seats - simply a requirement by the SCCA that seats be fixed back, which could let folks use all sorts of abominations in their cars, including such fine products as these:



(Don't laugh, I saw them used in more than one rally car)

The FIA provided a true certification based upon testing for minimum threshold of safety, was widely used within the racing seat industry, and especially so in the rally realm.

would it be possible to get a waiver for an other seat?
from other sanctioning bodies like score or the like]]> tdrrally Rally Chat Thu, 09 Oct 2014 18:56:22 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101572#msg-101572 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101572#msg-101572
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tdrrally
my question is why does nasa rallysport require fia seats?

Because at the time the rule was adopted - which was when NRS published its first ruleset, there was no requirement in rally for certification of seats - simply a requirement by the SCCA that seats be fixed back, which could let folks use all sorts of abominations in their cars, including such fine products as these:



(Don't laugh, I saw them used in more than one rally car)

The FIA provided a true certification based upon testing for minimum threshold of safety, was widely used within the racing seat industry, and especially so in the rally realm.]]> wvonkessler Rally Chat Thu, 09 Oct 2014 15:32:32 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101569#msg-101569 Re: Rally seats https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,101522,101569#msg-101569 NoCoast Rally Chat Thu, 09 Oct 2014 15:03:26 -0500