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DirtySpeed
Not sure this should be my 1st post. Here we go.

I'm the founder of StatelineRallycross.com entering our 3rd season in Northern IL and 1st season in Arkansas with both timed events and head to head rallycross events.

We along with Indiana Rallycross have been doing "rallytrials" for a few years. I knew there was more to Rallycross than what most SCCA events offered. We started SLRC to help Drivers enjoy longer courses without cones.

I hope you will take time to see out page, FB page and come out to enjoy our events.

Where would be the best place here to post info about our group and events?

I wish SCCA and the other Rallycross programs the best, Dustin

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RALLYRS
RallyTrials Courses
1 RallyTrials courses shall be placed on relatively level, smooth dirt or gravel surfaces and shall
avoid incorporating significant elevation changes or abrupt high-speed turns. Course design
should normally provide a combination of flowing turns connected by short straight
sections.
2 Maximum speeds on straights should not normally exceed 60 miles per hour for the fastest
vehicles.

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Anders Green
Interesting. RallySprint limitation: "Maximum speeds on straights should not normally exceed 70 miles per hour for the fastest vehicles."

Not the average for the stage, just an instantaneous 70 mph. How long would it take for a "medium strength" turbo awd car to reach this? It seems like it would take most "proper stages" out of contention?

Anders

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Anders Green
Interesting. RallySprint limitation: "Maximum speeds on straights should not normally exceed 70 miles per hour for the fastest vehicles."

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RALLYRS
So SCCA posted their RallyTrials and RallySprint rules:

http://cdn.growassets.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/011/662/2016_RallyTrialsRallySprint_Rules.pdf?1450124498

I was happy to see they went with Time Trials Rules(just a 4 point roll bar) for the RallyTrials.
Honestly it's just a slightly faster rallyx-no need for full cage...

But...Bummer that the RallyTrials couse design can't have elevation changes..that probably wont bode well for using that trophy truck course I posted above...

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Josh Wimpey
John, You may be right but the economy for blue collar dudes has been in steady -- if not dramatic -- decline for over 20 years. Couple that with increases in costs to run (for a variety of reasons) and you get dramatically fewer people moving into the sport through this route. Even lowering the costs back to late 1990s specs and safety requirements won't bring many of them back to the sport.

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NoCoast

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Josh Wimpey
The economy for blue collar dudes has been in steady -- if not dramatic -- decline for over 20 years. Couple that with increases in costs to run (for a variety of reasons) and you get dramatically fewer people moving into the sport through this route.

Not to mention the increased cost of living in USA without a matching raise in income.
I contend that many engineers and other desk jockeys are blue collar workers sucked into a white collar economy. Rally attracts them as they want to build things and work with their hands and see physical manifestations of their labors.

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Josh Wimpey
John, You may be right but the economy for blue collar dudes has been in steady -- if not dramatic -- decline for over 20 years.

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Josh Wimpey
The economy for blue collar dudes has been in steady -- if not dramatic -- decline for over 20 years. Couple that with increases in costs to run (for a variety of reasons) and you get dramatically fewer people moving into the sport through this route.

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webkris

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Josh Wimpey
Even lowering the costs back to late 1990s specs and safety requirements won't bring many of them back to the sport.

A few points that often get piled together:

1. We ALL know that car racing & motorsport is inherently expensive - compared to MOST other hobbies there are a lot cheaper things to do than "Spec Miata", "Formula Ford", "Nitro Dragster" or "Stage Rally". The every-man argument that "Racing is expensive".

2. We agree that competing at the top of the field in the open or unlimited class "PRO" is usually 10X - 100X more expensive than any amateur or club effort in the same sport. This also gets lumped into "Racing is expensive".

3. Realize that marketing the sport with only the top of the field and keeping those costs in the "$250K - 1M" by encouraging the advancement of the pointy end and thus discouraging participation by the amateur or club efforts lands in "Racing is expensive".

So -
1. Consider that restoring WWII aircraft is also expensive.
2. The size of your checkbook is and always will be a factor in racing.
3. Some promoters and racing organizations are more interested in the team that can write an $80K check and do many national events, then getting 30 guys with $15K cars on the track at 1 or 2 local races paying with PayPal.

My argument would be that "rally is NOT more expensive" in the last 20 years.
It would be that the promotion and marketing of rally, shifted 20+ years ago to attract the top dollars - and even after 20 years of this, times when manufacturers and big team efforts would come and go, there just aren't "that many people" that are interested in rally AND that can write big checks every season.

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john vanlandingham
A little reflection would lead one to the inescapable conclusion that there are many many many times more working class people than doctors, lawyers, injur-nears, etc.

I'm willing to bet that there are a hell of a lot more "every-man teams" that would be interested in this sport if it was actually marketed to them (with classes and championships geared specifically towards them). :) *cough... *grassroots

- Kris

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Josh Wimpey
Even lowering the costs back to late 1990s specs and safety requirements won't bring many of them back to the sport.

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NoCoast
The problem is, most are buying way too nice of cars, usually with a car payment. They might come out to a rallycross once and then they decide it's too rough on their car or too much commitment so they bail.
Next year I am going to put some new younger college students that are interested in rally into my Impreza rallycross car. My 20 year old cousin and his friends, local engineering school's car club members, etc. I made the comment the other day, every engineering or computer science student is a potential future customer. Figuring out how to get the black tie industries more interested in rallying instead of track/vintage would be good too. Doctors, lawyers, and such. We have a fairly concentrated group of blue collar entrepreneurs, engineer types, and really smart vets as primary rally base around here the past few years.

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NoCoast
Having stage rallyists actively involved in the rallycross community leads to a higher percentage of transitions.

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KTurner

I autox regularly (with the rally car), I don't understand the serious autoxer.