First Rally car, what to get?

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

Hatman — Sat, 21 Oct 2017 11:24:53 -0500

Nope I'm still here. Unfortunately Irma has eaten up my funds for a rally at the moment. So I'll be sitting on the sidelines for while. Thanks for all the help so far. It seems like whatever I get just get it and start driving. Then worry about upgrading later.

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

DanielSL — Fri, 20 Oct 2017 21:34:04 -0500

Well, he didn't come to last month's RX with his buddy that does both AX and RX. But his buddy did bring another AX convert to try it out. CFR next event is a night RX tomorrow, so keeping our fingers crossed we will see him tomorrow.

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

p0inT92 — Fri, 20 Oct 2017 21:23:17 -0500

Havent been here for a long time, but neither has Robert apperently, i hope you guys didnt scare him away.
Hope he didnt buy a Subaru like some people suggested.

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

Snidewhips — Sat, 09 Sep 2017 23:03:44 -0500

rallyx. anything for cheap
rally, any thing durable cheap and plentiful.
have good working knowledge of both fabrication and wrenching.
make sure its fun.
sincerely
a guy who caught alot of flack for his moves and doesn't regret one of em.
project "genny" 2010 Hyundai Genesis coupe 3.8 coming to a stage near you in 2018
what up ra addicts hope all is well

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

Aaron Luptak — Tue, 05 Sep 2017 14:54:11 -0500

On Honduhs (specifically 88-00ish double a-arm ones).

Not a bad option for scca rallyx. Potentially very good if you want to go "all-in" squishing cones on dirt (you're at a disadvantage to things that came with an LSD in Stock. Prepared is probably where the cars would be strongest, in Modified the original starting car doesn't matter too much as there won't be much left of it.)

Biggest problems have been breaking CV joints with lots of steering angle. Pretty much everything else has fallen in the noise of normal-honda or normal-old-car problems.

For stage-

Probably the most off-the-shelf options for Gearing & LSDs of any FWD car in the past thirty years - but even the cheapest options are a bit more expensive than what JVL advocates for the Volvo.

The front suspension should be off-the-shelf capable of all the travel you can use without spending $$$$$ on CV joints. Definitely not the strongest design out there, with lots of cast pieces that are hard to effectively reinforce, but it doesn't seem to fail significantly more or less than any of the other options, under the handful of runners out there.

The rear suspension isn't so promising - using the stock design twist-bushing effectively works against suspension travel as you get away from the nominal position. Spherical or poly replacements should help, but raise potential durability concerns. Lots of pivot points, front toe arm will start hitting the body once you get enough droop, etc.

There's been a handful of folks running them in the US fairly successfully, as far as I know without doing any huge development work to deal with the shortcomings of the suspension. They also make a pretty regular showing in some of the Irish Tarmac stuff, no idea on details behind any of those.

I hear they make pretty good garage shelves too. :(

(The later strut-based cars have seen some success in the Finnish F-Cup series as well, but again no idea on details)

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

Robert Culbertson — Fri, 01 Sep 2017 22:15:54 -0500

I'm all for the volvo, but I have a slight bias. E36 isn't terrible, but they do have their issues (as do most cars).
Buy a POS for rally-x that you hate. Drive I like you stole it and invest minimal amounts of money. Than immediately realize that stage rally would be a better option, and then go do something fun with a RWD car and hang out with the cool kids :)
Seriosuly though, stage rally is to heroin as rallycross is to some crappy shake. It's way better, and it will ruin you.

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

john vanlandingham — Fri, 01 Sep 2017 19:18:44 -0500

Quote
Hatman
Yeah sorry about the Honda love, but I've owned more of those than anything else but I willing to branch out. Integras are just as fine in my eyes. What were the civic's breaking? I owned a 2001 LX and passed it on to my dad. It had 280k miles on it and still run, just starting to have a slight oil leak and still on the original clutch. (rev matched shifts for it's entire life.)

BMW's would be cool. A little more outlay of cash at first. I also have a BMW "guy" in my corner who knows the early 2000's car like the back of his hand. Kinda why they were on the list.

Again I will be frank..That Daniel guy is, politely put, a total bullshitting moron...
Read his thread and look at all his brilliant ideas and his reasoning...All either deep cover trolling--but he's too stupid for that, or he's certifiably mentally retarded.

There are now in USA a number of guys with E36s and some have had some good results with them HERE..But there i a plethora of problems even at the modest prep and speed of the US guys...
Among others:
*-repeated engine failures---oil pump and dropping valves
*-gearboxes refusing to shift and insanely expensive parts and pointlessly difficult gearbox repair process. (Daniel took 9 months to bolt two junk shocks on to his car, he does not to complicated things like build engines or repair boxes or diffs)
*repeated inner stubshaft failures--cleaning splines off.. The "Big" diff halfshaft splins are about 29mm dia..About the same things as cars weighing 6000-800 lbs less from other Euro brands. NO upgrade available)
*) repeated failures of the cast iron rear knuckle lower shock mount...typical German fucking injur-nears with their love of single shear shock mounting...and cast fucking iron...No solution
*repeated rust and corrosion related loss of captive nuts for mounting suspension links, not know the junk was rusted until failure since so much rust and sound-proofing goo slather around..
*corroded upper shock mounting.

Now in the Finnish video you see some going like stink. Listen to the engines but more important listen to the sounds of the thing revving---that's via VERY short crownwheel and pinion set...and the rev drop on shifts---SWEEET!...thats from a proper close ratio gear set.
http://www.samsonas.com/products/12/

Those 2 parts--and that is a must to eventually "have to have" go well in the car are well over $10,000, possibly closer to $15,000.

The motors don't make gobs or torque an usually that's OK, you just go shorter axle ratio and let the gears make the torque.. But alternate short gears like worthwhile cost $4000-5000 for BMW

And under $200 for Toyota axle and under $150 for Volvo with Dana 30..

With shorter gears the car---any car--accelerates quicker..With the ways BMWsa are geared for very high speed autobahn/Autoroute/autostrada cruising you need shorter axle..
So without they're a dog compared to a lowly any other car with them.
and you still need a good diff...

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

Hatman — Fri, 01 Sep 2017 18:19:02 -0500

Yeah sorry about the Honda love, but I've owned more of those than anything else but I willing to branch out. Integras are just as fine in my eyes. What were the civic's breaking? I owned a 2001 LX and passed it on to my dad. It had 280k miles on it and still run, just starting to have a slight oil leak and still on the original clutch. (rev matched shifts for it's entire life.)

BMW's would be cool. A little more outlay of cash at first. I also have a BMW "guy" in my corner who knows the early 2000's car like the back of his hand. Kinda why they were on the list.

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

DanielSL — Fri, 01 Sep 2017 17:57:25 -0500

Robert;

Happy you saw that listing as a joke, which is how it was meant. No one should spend that on a car for RX, and it would most likely be illegal in most if not all stage rally organizations.

I disagree with John on the BMW's being expensive. Only someone whom cannot work on them themselves finds them expensive. I have owned German cars exclusively since I was 15, and BMW, VW, and Audi are not expensive at all. The tricks are knowing how to work on them yourself, and understanding ordering parts, (specifically BOSCH) by part numbers, not saying you have a German car to the counter guy. My Porsches were expensive. My Mercedes are expensive. Laughing at what Alex said above, as I have had 4 S classes. 2 126 chassis, a 140 chassis, and a 220 chassis S600. Hell, my wife and I have 4 MB's now, and there's only ever two of them running at any one time. And my SL 55 lives in storage, as I am afraid to damage any of its RennTECH bits. I would not even think about rallying any of them. A 123 Coupe however, would be a completely different story. Or an R107 SLC tribute of the factory MB rally cars from the Africa rallies. 450 SLC or 500 SLC tribute.

When it comes to early 2000's Civics, we have two that run in CFR region. Neither has done well, and they seem to consistently break something every event. However, that is nothing against the car. In both cases, I firmly believe it is poor car preparation from owners trying to keep a cheap car running using cheap parts.

The last time I revised my budget for my build, I was sitting right at 7 grand. But that was with 20 something used rally tires, and 21 alloy wheels (13-15", 4-16", and 4-17"). It was also with almost 2 grand in a custom built HotBits rally suspension, over $300 in graphics and stickers, and an engine swap out of an Audi TT-Q.

I could have easily bought, built, and ran a stock GTI with a 1.8T engine in stock or prepared class for between 2,000 and 3,000 for the first season.

Since you like Hondas, have you thought of an Integra coupe? Ryan McLaughlin at rally.build drives one pretty competitively, and it looks killer at full tilt boogie.

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

DanielSL — Fri, 01 Sep 2017 17:41:34 -0500

LOL. I wouldn't drive it. Hell, you'd never see me in a damned Volvo. I grew up in New England. Volvos are for soccer moms and their snot nosed bitch kids. Must be like John likes them so much. The boys drove Audis and Saabs up there. Just trying to prove a point. Which was proven in just a few minutes. Too many of you faggots want this site to be some sort of a drama laced daytime soap opera, instead of a place where discussions can be had, and ideas can be shared.

Robert, whatever you end up getting; CFR will be glad to have you out, in whatever class you choose. Great group of people who are all about helping each other, even if it means missing runs to help a competitor make it home safely. We pride ourselves on the true grassroots fun factor at the RX events. As much as l I like the Rally Anarchy site, you have to be building a true stage Rally car to have anyone give you serious advice; and you have to believe all of Johns narcissistic self ego-raising bullshit to get anywhere.

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

Hatman — Fri, 01 Sep 2017 17:41:34 -0500

ROFL, while interesting. (LS1 or 2JZ all the things!!!!) definitely not what I want to spend. Now I've been hesitant to say my budget cause I wanted to see what you all have to say. But I'd really like to keep it under $2500 if possible. $1000/$1500 being the ideal. I would be willing to spend a little more if there was a "magic" car and "just get this one" and your set type of thing. Which is why I've asked about it here. Still interested in everyone's opinions. Although Volvo 240's seem to be in short supply.

PS What is thoughts on an early 2000's Civic? They have about the same power and are lighter. Do they hold up well?

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

Philippe Bellefleur — Fri, 01 Sep 2017 17:28:58 -0500

Quote
DanielSL
Just to add fuel to the fire... how about a 2JZ swapped 242? That should kick up some rooster tails!

https://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/pts/d/1979-volvo-242/6256038366.html

Having trouble staying on topic? This is not a fap fest... 9k for grass-o-cross is stupid & you're not clever quit trying!

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

DanielSL — Fri, 01 Sep 2017 17:23:14 -0500

Just to add fuel to the fire... how about a 2JZ swapped 242? That should kick up some rooster tails!

https://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/pts/d/1979-volvo-242/6256038366.html

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

Gravity Fed — Fri, 01 Sep 2017 14:10:45 -0500

Clearly, the best answer is S-class Mercedes.

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

NoCoast — Thu, 31 Aug 2017 22:43:32 -0500

They made like a billion 240s from like 76-93. They are easy to find parts for.

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

Hatman — Thu, 31 Aug 2017 21:29:35 -0500

Ok, not the direction I was thinking but I'll definitely keep it in mind. (the whole point of asking was to point me in new directions.) The one you posted is nice with low miles. Shame I'm not ready just yet. With it being so old, how accessible are parts for the 240? Are they inexpensive?

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

john vanlandingham — Thu, 31 Aug 2017 21:04:57 -0500

Just for fun, this is a "rallysprint", the spiritual equivalent of so called "rally-cross"

Notice how nicely a certain something is going at 4.12

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

john vanlandingham — Thu, 31 Aug 2017 20:45:06 -0500

And here's one nearby
https://orlando.craigslist.org/cto/d/volvo-240/6283908016.html

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

john vanlandingham — Thu, 31 Aug 2017 20:39:05 -0500

Quote
Hatman
Cool, thanks John. What RWD cars would you suggest?

I'm starting to learn the Focus might not be the best choice. Which is why I'm here on the first place. Lol! Thanks

Well we didn't get 1968 thru 1980 Ford Escort and they're insanely expensive now--even if brand new bodies are available..So the car that is easiest and with the most easy groth potential I would suggest is this:
https://www.youtube.com/embed/g5U6cwX8RcE"; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

Hatman — Thu, 31 Aug 2017 15:04:17 -0500

Cool, thanks John. What RWD cars would you suggest?

I'm starting to learn the Focus might not be the best choice. Which is why I'm here on the first place. Lol! Thanks

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

john vanlandingham — Thu, 31 Aug 2017 14:31:16 -0500

Quote
Hatman
Hello everyone.I've been autocrossing for about a year and half and now have the bug for trying to slide around in the dirt. I've always loved rallying and the skill it takes but I'm not taking the daily '14 Civic Si out in the dirt. P So I want to start out with the Local Rallycross (SCCA type) stuff. I would like to build the car up over time and maybe do some stage stuff someday.

So on to the question. What car to start with?

A lotta resonable words so far but really seriouisly listen..
I know this is Merkuh, and its a GAWD GIVEN right to have every whim instantly met..
But

Grass-o-cross (rally cross is a real sport with 4-8 cars with real motors and cages and shit racing same time, I refuse to call this driving around on a empty lot rallycross because to do so is to insult others) is one thing...and rally is something else.

Don't voluntarily make your decisions more difficult by bullshitting yourself, or listening to bullshitters and trying to get one car you'll "eventually build into a rally car"..
Don't.

Get ANY manual trans ANYTHING and get out and start playing...

Like otter-cross which you've been doing the decisive thing is the driver making big blunders trying too hard...just look at how well Miatas do when driven sensibly..

For grass-o-cross you don't need lots of HP or torque, or brakes (the speed differential between the "straights" and the corners are just a few mph and the duration of the runs are so short anything will do)..

No regarding Fuck-us in particular: there are over 2 million Fuckuses with the very nice Duratec motors...It is a wonderful engine..The Zetec isn't a very nice motor..
No reason except price to get a Zetec motored Fuckus..

The entire rear subframe, links, arms etc on the Fuckus is weak in any direction except straight ahead..I've posted here photos of what those parts do dozens of times. They bend and tear and suck... The car is also relatively heavy...But if you have a hard on for a Fuckus then get one.
Stock suspension and brakes and motor and box will do---for grass-o-cross.

A car for rally is another story entirely.. There the No1 consideration is the eventual cost to build a real rally car that is fun and competitive so "growth potential at what cost" is central....and there the availability of AFFORDABLE shorter final drive, LSD, and driveline (CVs, half-shafts) parts stronger than original is central and there FWD cars fail. ALL of their parts are multiples more costly and costly to install and any stronger parts are generally not available except at insanely overpriced levels.
A decent rally car should have good upgrade path at reasonable prices and there are nor many that do..
BOTH FWD and RWD BOTH work effectively when properly built.
The big difference is the cost to build a more or less 'proper" car.

So separate the 2 sports...get started, don't listen to anybody in Florida about anything. listen to the guys who in vain wasted their time telling this Daniel character that every single thing he said he was doing was foolish and pointless...everything. THEY were actually doing grass-o-cross for years and some quite successfully.

I know which RWD cars I'd find...again because of costs, and it would NOT be a German car..too expensive to buy and outrageously expensive for real parts and in the end, not one bit more effective than other simple RWD cars.

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

john vanlandingham — Thu, 31 Aug 2017 13:54:13 -0500

Quote
Philippe Bellefleur

Quote
DanielSL
Robert;

If you are going to be buying a car specifically for Rally duty, and starting with some RX use, decide if you want FWD, RWD, or AWD first. That in my opinion is the first step. Then you can narrow down your car list from there.

You are going to be running CFR for your region for RX, so get on the SCCA website, and decide if in RX you want to run stock, or modified class. Don't even waste your time trying to do a car for prepared if you are going to do Stage Rally later on. Get your seat time learning how the car reacts to you in stock form, or start slowly modifying it, and run it in modified. What they allow you versus the huge amount of "not allowed" in prepared just makes most competitors nuts.

Based off of our results for the last few years; here are your best choices to be competitive on a friendly level at CFR - RX events. Take this with a grain of salt, as if you are going to do stage rally, some of these may not be good choices...

Stock;

FWD - Ford Focus
RWD - Miatas, BMW's
AWD - Any Subaru

Modified;

FWD - Ford SVT, Volkswagen, Peugeot 206
RWD - Miatas, Volvos
AWD - Turbo Subarus

Your buddy is running a 318 Ti, and there are other Ti's in CFR. Grant Hughes from Rally.Build has a Ti in his fleet, so he can give you lots of great information.

A quick search gave me roughly a dozen Ti ads on CL between several hundred to 2500. If you have a garage space, and can do some work yourself; there is the ability to buy 2 different 318 Ti's, and a low mileage engine all in Fl right now, for a total of under $2,000, which would give you a running car, a spare drivetrain, and an entire car of spares.

If you look at Miatas, you can get a good rallycross base for less than $2,000-2,500, but remember you need a hardtop to run it. Spare sets of wheels are as low as 150-250 per set off of CL. John at Goomba Fabrication in Tampa runs one that is fully legal and teched with Rally America, and builds most of the NASA and RA cages for CFR members who step up to stage rally. He did 4 alone for SandBlast this year besides his own, and everyone passed tech first time through with no red flags.

Good luck. Hope to see you at one of the events.

Take this guy as an example, whatever he did, don't do it!

This cannot be stressed enough...

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

Philippe Bellefleur — Wed, 30 Aug 2017 21:09:21 -0500

Quote
DanielSL
Robert;

If you are going to be buying a car specifically for Rally duty, and starting with some RX use, decide if you want FWD, RWD, or AWD first. That in my opinion is the first step. Then you can narrow down your car list from there.

You are going to be running CFR for your region for RX, so get on the SCCA website, and decide if in RX you want to run stock, or modified class. Don't even waste your time trying to do a car for prepared if you are going to do Stage Rally later on. Get your seat time learning how the car reacts to you in stock form, or start slowly modifying it, and run it in modified. What they allow you versus the huge amount of "not allowed" in prepared just makes most competitors nuts.

Based off of our results for the last few years; here are your best choices to be competitive on a friendly level at CFR - RX events. Take this with a grain of salt, as if you are going to do stage rally, some of these may not be good choices...

Stock;

FWD - Ford Focus
RWD - Miatas, BMW's
AWD - Any Subaru

Modified;

FWD - Ford SVT, Volkswagen, Peugeot 206
RWD - Miatas, Volvos
AWD - Turbo Subarus

Your buddy is running a 318 Ti, and there are other Ti's in CFR. Grant Hughes from Rally.Build has a Ti in his fleet, so he can give you lots of great information.

A quick search gave me roughly a dozen Ti ads on CL between several hundred to 2500. If you have a garage space, and can do some work yourself; there is the ability to buy 2 different 318 Ti's, and a low mileage engine all in Fl right now, for a total of under $2,000, which would give you a running car, a spare drivetrain, and an entire car of spares.

If you look at Miatas, you can get a good rallycross base for less than $2,000-2,500, but remember you need a hardtop to run it. Spare sets of wheels are as low as 150-250 per set off of CL. John at Goomba Fabrication in Tampa runs one that is fully legal and teched with Rally America, and builds most of the NASA and RA cages for CFR members who step up to stage rally. He did 4 alone for SandBlast this year besides his own, and everyone passed tech first time through with no red flags.

Good luck. Hope to see you at one of the events.

Take this guy as an example, whatever he did, don't do it!

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

NoCoast — Wed, 30 Aug 2017 20:41:44 -0500

As soon as you know what all the rally cross classes are or even mean it's time to shit or get off the pot. Build a rally car and do it quickly.

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

Hatman — Wed, 30 Aug 2017 19:23:18 -0500

Nice! Thanks to all who've replied and helped. Alas the current Civic is prepped in STX for aurocross and wouldn't be able to do a RallyX. The thought of an early 2000's civic is on the table. I had an 2001 LX for 12 years and it was dead reliable. Loved that car. So that's an option.

I like the idea of getting back into a RWD car and the 318's sound cool. Not sure I can convince the wife to have 2 cars stashed in the back yard but it's certainly on the table also. I also think RallyX will be my "thing" for a couple of years while I build the car up. Think RallyX primary with the option to do a stage rally someday.

Miata is always the answer and definitely applies here. :P

Really trying to see what others have to say and pick everyone's brains. I'm not going out tomorrow and buying a car and have some time to think about it and do research on it. Why not ask, says I.

Still I've really enjoyed AutoX'ing the Civic and starting to learn the FWD style of driving and I kinda dig the "wrong" wheel way to drive. It's been "unlearn what you have learned" (yoda quote... :P ) kinda process and cool for me. Still I wouldn't mind having a RWD back in my life to remind how a real car drives :P

So really full circle. Honestly the ZX3 is appealing due to the availability and entry price but I don't want to "tunnel Vision" myself. Which is why I posted here.

Wow that's a novel. Keep 'em coming. Still open to all ideas and thoughts, rude, snide remarks ... :P

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

DanielSL — Wed, 30 Aug 2017 18:54:13 -0500

Robert;

If you are going to be buying a car specifically for Rally duty, and starting with some RX use, decide if you want FWD, RWD, or AWD first. That in my opinion is the first step. Then you can narrow down your car list from there.

You are going to be running CFR for your region for RX, so get on the SCCA website, and decide if in RX you want to run stock, or modified class. Don't even waste your time trying to do a car for prepared if you are going to do Stage Rally later on. Get your seat time learning how the car reacts to you in stock form, or start slowly modifying it, and run it in modified. What they allow you versus the huge amount of "not allowed" in prepared just makes most competitors nuts.

Based off of our results for the last few years; here are your best choices to be competitive on a friendly level at CFR - RX events. Take this with a grain of salt, as if you are going to do stage rally, some of these may not be good choices...

Stock;

FWD - Ford Focus
RWD - Miatas, BMW's
AWD - Any Subaru

Modified;

FWD - Ford SVT, Volkswagen, Peugeot 206
RWD - Miatas, Volvos
AWD - Turbo Subarus

Your buddy is running a 318 Ti, and there are other Ti's in CFR. Grant Hughes from Rally.Build has a Ti in his fleet, so he can give you lots of great information.

A quick search gave me roughly a dozen Ti ads on CL between several hundred to 2500. If you have a garage space, and can do some work yourself; there is the ability to buy 2 different 318 Ti's, and a low mileage engine all in Fl right now, for a total of under $2,000, which would give you a running car, a spare drivetrain, and an entire car of spares.

If you look at Miatas, you can get a good rallycross base for less than $2,000-2,500, but remember you need a hardtop to run it. Spare sets of wheels are as low as 150-250 per set off of CL. John at Goomba Fabrication in Tampa runs one that is fully legal and teched with Rally America, and builds most of the NASA and RA cages for CFR members who step up to stage rally. He did 4 alone for SandBlast this year besides his own, and everyone passed tech first time through with no red flags.

Good luck. Hope to see you at one of the events.

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

alosix — Wed, 30 Aug 2017 11:53:40 -0500

Team O'Neil has also put up a decent series on some basic rally stuff:

others on tires and whatnots..

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

alosix — Wed, 30 Aug 2017 10:51:43 -0500

Quote
NoCoast
If you are already a Honda guy, I'd look for a less nice and slightly older Civic. Any of them are probably fine starting points.
RWD is more fun, E36 BMW are quite nice in that regards.
But, you are in Florida so I have to say the answer is a Toyota Starlet. They can still be found down there in decent shape. :)

Didn't really catch the desire to try on cross first. If your civic is still closer to stock and not in a normal autox trim it should be fine on dirt. I wouldn't expect a cross in florida to be that rough on a car.

Good point on the civic. My last time down at core some dude was running one (quite old, quite beaten) . Gearing allowed him to seemingly just keep it in 1st and bounce off the rev limiter the whole run. Epic smile on his face.

in CA one dude (Bernie) used to run a geo metro. Was hella quick with that thing given how small/light it was.

I really don't enjoy my WRX on cross courses. With and without the restrictor the power band has always had me wanting to be between gears. We've been considering picking up something RWD just for cross playing.

Also make sure its got a 'real metal' roof. Sunroof cars can be run in cross, but it'll need to be blocked off for stage. Too bad miatas never came with a real roof, they'd probably fit the bill nicely for fun.

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

lxender1291 — Wed, 30 Aug 2017 10:11:15 -0500

Quote
MattP
I have a line on a number of cars at the moment, from not so expensive to more expensive. They are an entry level Focus FX3, maybe a nicely sorted FX3, a '98 M3 and possibly a Civic. All are caged and have log books and are ready to rally.

Details on these cars? Specifically the Focus?

Re: First Rally car, what to get?

NoCoast — Wed, 30 Aug 2017 09:46:54 -0500

If you are already a Honda guy, I'd look for a less nice and slightly older Civic. Any of them are probably fine starting points.
RWD is more fun, E36 BMW are quite nice in that regards.
But, you are in Florida so I have to say the answer is a Toyota Starlet. They can still be found down there in decent shape. :)