just getting in

Re: just getting in

starion887 — Mon, 05 May 2008 12:07:51 -0500

Hey Josh,

Welcome to the nuthouse. Are you planning on Rally WV to compete or volunteer? We'd like to see you there! Get in touch if you have any questions: mark dawt bowers ayut rallywv dawt com . This year's date is Aug 1-2, over in Randolph Co. My son an I are the main organizing dudes at the event, and I do tech inspection too (for NASA RallySport). Everyone here will try to get you steered in a good direction for a car that is as inexpensive as you can. I like to steer folks to at least look at the early 90's Sentra SE-R's for a good basic car that does well in stock form as a starter car. Should be a good one to find in the j-yards.

Do you have connections to bend and weld tubing for a cage? I'm not talking about the entry level class cage work at a typical local dirt circle track; it has to be better workmanship than you typically see there. But it can certainly be done at a local shop or in one's garage.

The suggestion of doing a little budget planning for events before you get started is pretty good advice. There have been a few who just dove in head-first, and then got really discouraged afterwards. At least you can get to several events without towing 1000+ miles! If you do some budget planning, I would look at Rally WV, Sandblast, Rally TN, STPR, Black River, some of the CARS events in Ontario, and Sno*Drift, and maybe 100 Acre Wood, on my list, if I were in Parkersburg.

Regards,
Mark B.

Re: just getting in

Slowwpoke — Sun, 04 May 2008 14:46:48 -0500

fiasco Wrote:
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> You want to build a stage rally car from scratch,
> I'd say $10,000 minimum to meet the safety rules
> and have a car that doesn't completely suck, and
> that's if you do EVERYTHING yourself.
>
> You might be able to buy a car that only needs a
> couple grand of parts to be stage rally legal for
> $5,000 or so.

I must have got the deal of the century...

Re: just getting in

DR1665 — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:01:23 -0500

Getting your wife interested is a MAJOR step in the right direction, but also consider finding a buddy who would be interested in racing with you. There are some teams out there who take turns driving and co-driving at events. These guys sort of split the costs associated. It's another idea.

And don't rule out the old Volvos. I picked up my 86 240 wagon for $1000 and have been told, repeatedly, that I could have got a newer, turbocharged model for a lot less money. They are tanks, cheap to mod for power and control, RWD, and you will find a metric shitton of technical info on building one on this site.

Welcome to the fray.

Re: just getting in

Anders Green — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:00:09 -0500

pikespeakgtx Wrote:
> Damn $2500 for one weekend!!!

Here's a good exercise: plan what it would cost for you to go racing for one weekend if you had a FREE car. Find an event close to you, figure out the distance, do the mileage/gas cost, (include gas for the rally car, you can use 10mpg as a guess) find tow vehicle rental or use or wear, figure out how many days you'll be gone, figure food for all meals, then lodging (4 guys to one room is fine), and entry fee. And membership/license fee. And notes fee. And road tolls.

So, completely ignoring the car, how much would it cost you and some buddies to go up there, be there, and come back? Start with that.

Cheers,
Anders

Re: just getting in

Rallymech — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:44:28 -0500

Here is my two cents...Have a serious look at rally cross or TSD rallies. Rally cross is fast but more expensive. TSDs are cheap and low risk but you can really build your skills. Put the pro rally dreams aside for a few years and start out with something realistic first. Here is a huge piece of advise that is often overlooked...GET YOUR WIFE INTERESTED!!!!!!!!! If she is on board, literally, you are home free!!!!! TSD is great for this. Take the family car out to a short, non Monte Carlo, event and have fun together. Once she sees that it is safe and fun she may like it. Do some research on the internet. When you introduce the idea to her focus on the "it's not racing" and safety aspects. Good luck!

Re: just getting in

SteelSolutions — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 02:26:10 -0500

Cool thread to bad your so far away i have a friend trying to get off focus cars he
has a running car with 30 miles for 600 bucks needs front core and radiator bumper
and some other doodads. I have

bin looking at them more nothing to great but think you
could do alright in one few down falls that can be fixed like rear drag link and semi
flawed motor but for starter car and the price might be a good choice.

I would suggest got to your guys that buys
the cars for the junk yard and ask if you can get him to buy an auction car for you or
try and get that in, its crazy the cars they get.
I dono about there but hear you

need to be a dealer to get clear title cars most of the time but worth looking in
too, also try towing auctions they some times have wild deals iv seen plenty of old
corollas ser's and some other good starter cars.

I like about everything but support merkurs for the cheep power and cheep parts once you go threw
the car like supra diff and t5 tranny. also keep in mind front drive when you
get in too traction the price sky rockets, most of the time, and the trans axle could be a nightmare.

knock on wood my escort gt welded diff wasint to bad and a total
blast, lame car but it payed for it fun factor plus there dirt cheep you could have
a pile of extra parts for cheep.

Re: just getting in

turoc — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 01:10:49 -0500

Funny thing is you dont even realize where and how you spent the money until you stop and think about it. Could we have done it for less? Probably for 1500-2000 but i dont think any lesser.
BTW I did have another expense which I forgot to mention which was the Uhaul trailer which was 200 ish. Only place i have to keep a trailer is 2hrs away so dont have one.

Re: just getting in

pikespeakgtx — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:50:38 -0500

Damn $2500 for one weekend!!!

Guess You better be swingin' some weight.

Re: just getting in

turoc — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:19:11 -0500

hudson Wrote:

>
> I can't afford it, but I'd guess 1k is super duper
> cheappppppppp for an all in weekend.
>

1K is totally out of question unless you drive your rally car to the event, stay in a tent and cruise on stages so you could drive back home. Entry fees are $500 at the cheapest, if you are novice you need to get to the event earlier than the rest, tow vehicle gas, rally tires, gas for race car, hotel, food will quickly add over 1K. At Sandblast our total expenses Were roughly 2.5K and thats with used tires and $50 hotel room. I will admit however tow vehicle gas totalled 400-500 bucks alone.

Re: just getting in

hudson — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:43:57 -0500

war_machine1205 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> just have to put the cock to the old lady aqnd
> maybe ill get the money

:) The problem with rally is that it's absolutely fucking expensive.

LIKE EXPENSIVE.

You're looking at 6k bare minimum and 100s if not 1000s of hours to be given the opportunity to spend 1-2k to possibly write off your car for little to no prize money.

Buy a trike for 500 dollars, haul it out to the country (if you don't live in it) strap a 6 pack to the back and go have fun.

Re: just getting in

war_machine1205 — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:39:27 -0500

just have to put the cock to the old lady aqnd maybe ill get the money

Re: just getting in

hudson — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:36:19 -0500

war_machine1205 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i was just fucking off about the fiesta and im
> really dont know what it costs

I can't afford it, but I'd guess 1k is super duper cheappppppppp for an all in weekend.

Re: just getting in

war_machine1205 — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:26:44 -0500

i was just fucking off about the fiesta and im really dont know what it costs

Re: just getting in

hudson — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:24:54 -0500

war_machine1205 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The good thing is with parts i work at a junk
> yard/ recycling yard so i can get parts pretty
> easy. I know where i can get a fiesta that isnt
> rusted out and in pretty good cond. I was looking
> for something of a project to work for a cew
> months so i can get my driveing skill up alil more
> then it is right now. i grow up in the counry so
> mud snow and gravel is nothing now to me thats why
> this is looking really fun now

You don't want to rally a fiesta.

Do you know what it costs to enter a rally?

Re: just getting in

war_machine1205 — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:11:37 -0500

The good thing is with parts i work at a junk yard/ recycling yard so i can get parts pretty easy. I know where i can get a fiesta that isnt rusted out and in pretty good cond. I was looking for something of a project to work for a cew months so i can get my driveing skill up alil more then it is right now. i grow up in the counry so mud snow and gravel is nothing now to me thats why this is looking really fun now

Re: just getting in

fiasco — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:02:21 -0500

$500 to $600 is maybe enough to buy a sheetbox rallycross car. Rallycross is like autocross in a dirt parking lot. Kinda fun to do, but I'd rather throw $50 at 50 laps of go kart racing, even if the karting is on asphalt.

You want to build a stage rally car from scratch, I'd say $10,000 minimum to meet the safety rules and have a car that doesn't completely suck, and that's if you do EVERYTHING yourself.

You might be able to buy a car that only needs a couple grand of parts to be stage rally legal for $5,000 or so.

Am I being negative enough? Sorry.

Front drivers, POS VWs (with all the POS electric stuff removed), 91-94 Sentra SE-R, some Civics. I'd love to see a Ford Fiasco...er Fiesta, but 99.8% of those rusted out 12 years ago. There are some Saab pervs around who dig the old 99s and 900s. Vanlandingham loves his Saab 96, and I have to say they are fun to drive. Neons? Omnis? K-Car?

A turbo Omni or K-Car would probably be fun to rallycross with the right crowd (i.e., a group who was more about "hold my beer and watch this" than having 17 different classes and being all about rules compliance).

But you shouldn't be listening to me, I've been standing on the sidelines for over 10 years with just one run in the codriver's seat in Canada. Let the voices of experience come forth with brilliant ideas!

Re: just getting in

hudson — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:45:15 -0500

war_machine1205 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Want to go with a fwd i've owned alot of cars and
> i work on almost all of them my self and if there
> is something i cant i call my uncle and he can do
> it or tell me how to do it im leaning to weld
> right now and like 500 to 600 is what i can spend
> without my wife getting pissed that i brought
> myself a big toy. more detail on cars that ive had
> a ford fiesta, honda civic accord and a pile of
> shit vw

Is the $600 cap on keeping the wife happy on something big and obvious like a car or all expenditures?

What I'm saying is it the actual physical car in the driveway and not the gearbox that's going to get her bent?

The most popular FWD car in NA (north america, not naturally aspirated) is a Golf/Rabbit. Someone VW guy will fill you in on them (I don't know much, but Rabbit unibodies are apparently weak. They all seem to suffer from a fairly bad rear suspension beam and the top strut mounts in the front are garbage-- which has been/is being fixed)

Your shopping range includes Saab 99s. I prefer them over the VW for nothing more than it's a Saab and not a VW (although the Saab has rally pedigree if that means anything to you). Body parts are getting expensive.. windshields are $400-600. But the general running gear is still cheap. Anything that goes into a 900 can go into a 99. (you could run a 900 as well.. i just don't like the look as much.. and think they are dimensionally bigger)

Some years of civics are being run successfully.. I think it's the early mid 90s generation. The hatch ones that look like something that could go/came out of your butt. The shells are almost all gone here (tin worm).. but in West Virginia they might still be plentiful/cheap. The biggest plus is aftermarket engine jazz is everywhere and anywhere.

There will be a few others, but fairly odd ball. Ie VW Scirrocco aka a squashed and sportier looking rabbit.

Generally, you don't want to be the first guy to figure everything out. So I'd suggest running something that's already been run (successfully of course).

There will be a lot of people trying to sell you on RWD. Growing up in the country and having owned 1 FWD vehicle to 10 or so RWD ones.. you can guess where on the fence I sit. The major advantage is the drive line is a lot more bullet proof and you can change the differential gearing for a lot less $$.

Edit: RWD is a whole lot simpler.. you can put a T5 (good, cheap and everywhere) behind just about any motor. If the car has a solid axle you can put just about any rear axle back there.

Re: just getting in

war_machine1205 — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:29:55 -0500

Want to go with a fwd i've owned alot of cars and i work on almost all of them my self and if there is something i cant i call my uncle and he can do it or tell me how to do it im leaning to weld right now and like 500 to 600 is what i can spend without my wife getting pissed that i brought myself a big toy. more detail on cars that ive had a ford fiesta, honda civic accord and a pile of shit vw

Re: just getting in

hudson — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:19:40 -0500

war_machine1205 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> im getting into rally racing. i was wanting to now
> whats a good car to buy on the cheap and what
> upgrades should beon the top of my list to do

Josh,

You're asking the question of questions. Everyone is going to have an opinion.. all will be right and all will be wrong.

You will likely get more and better responses if you outline the following:

A) are you biased towards FWD or RWD

B) what cars do you own/owned that you've wrenched on

C) what's your in house fabrication ability (ie. welding, making things work)

D) what can you realistically spend and still be able to afford to race the thing

After you've told us all that, your best option is to buy some rally car that already exists and run that. Myself and many others have a tendency to want the ultimate thing.. but for the first while you just need a thing that passes the safety regs. This will give you more money to actually go out and race. (in case you didn't know, you can't build a rally car for what you can sell it)

Re: just getting in

fiasco — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:18:36 -0500

Welcome to Rally Anarchy, Josh. We're not like the others. ;)

There aren't many rules here other than putting a real name, age and location so we know where you're coming from. And threatening to call Homeland Security on somebody is likely to get you in trouble here, too.

So, you've been bitten by the rally bug. Two events are within an easy drive for you to go check out.

Rally West Virignia is nearby you in Elkins (early August http://www.rallywv.com/), and Rally Tennessee isn't TOO far either and that's in a few short weeks (http://www.rallytennessee.com/2008/). Go look, see, ask questions.

These are both events sanctioned by NASA Rallysport: http://www.nasarallysport.com/.
There are also two events put on by Rally New York http://www.rallynewyork.com/.
There's also the Rally America series http://www.rally-america.com/index.php.

John Vanlandingham will be on shortly to tell you to build a Merkur XR4Ti or Volvo 240. :)

Which aren't bad options if you have the facilities and/or bank account (these are probably two of the most cost effective options if you're going to build). But there are others, too.

So, what are you looking to do? Cheap car to buy? Probably going to be a Mk 2 Golf. Check out the classifieds here and at specialstage.com and rallyclassified.com.

Re: just getting in

war_machine1205 — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:44:38 -0500

I updated my profile.

Re: just getting in

fiasco — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:19:46 -0500

Read this first...

http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?1,6,6

Now that you've identified yourself, welcome!

just getting in

war_machine1205 — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:10:02 -0500

im getting into rally racing. i was wanting to now whats a good car to buy on the cheap and what upgrades should beon the top of my list to do