Good studless ice tire?

Re: Good studless ice tire?

DG_Rally — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 08:38:44 -0600

I used to have a set of Menard's on my ice racer ('83 GTI) and they were the shit. It's like driving on gravel without those pesky trees. Menard's aren't around any more but it looks like Pryme has replaced them, with the same mold. Pryme Tire

You can buy studdable tires from tire rack and they'll install the studs for $15 a tire, something to consider before spending 30+ hours installing them yourself. I've had good luck with winterforce's but never tried them studded. I would think that's a good inexpensive alternative.

Some other info on real ice racing can be found here: Ice Race MN IIRA

I've tried kold kutters (without nuts) on car tires before and almost all of them came out after a few miles of hard driving.

Re: Good studless ice tire?

MattP — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 08:37:06 -0600

Re: Good studless ice tire?

Brian Johnson — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 08:22:07 -0600

Chris Martin and I ran tractionized Hakkapeliitta R2s at Tall Pines a couple of weekends ago. They seemed to work pretty well. :D

Re: Good studless ice tire?

Carl S — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 07:26:36 -0600

Quote
kwesley

Quote
Carl S
I've heard the weight of a car will rip those kold kutters right out of the tread block.
With liberal use of a sealant, like windshield urathane, you can get a decent enough seal on bolt tires that you don't need to run tubes and liners to protect the tubes. Do bring some spare air though, just in case. Although I have it on good authority that snowmobile studs are the way to go. They're pricey new, but used ones are easy enough to find and they allow an 8v mk3 golf with an open diff to beat evos and stis on bolt tires.

What kind of pattern are they using with the snowmobile studs? I have a box of them, but everytime I calculate it seeems like I have about half of what I need. Not sure what is too many, or overkill. They are pricey.

Hi Kevin! Good to see you back around rally stuff. I haven't seen the tires in question so I don't know what sort of pattern they're using. I know where they run has a 160 stud/tire minimum rule, so at least that many I guess. I'm hoping to make it to an event or two this winter so I can see for myself.

Re: Good studless ice tire?

kwesley — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 06:08:57 -0600

Quote
Carl S
I've heard the weight of a car will rip those kold kutters right out of the tread block.
With liberal use of a sealant, like windshield urathane, you can get a decent enough seal on bolt tires that you don't need to run tubes and liners to protect the tubes. Do bring some spare air though, just in case. Although I have it on good authority that snowmobile studs are the way to go. They're pricey new, but used ones are easy enough to find and they allow an 8v mk3 golf with an open diff to beat evos and stis on bolt tires.

What kind of pattern are they using with the snowmobile studs? I have a box of them, but everytime I calculate it seeems like I have about half of what I need. Not sure what is too many, or overkill. They are pricey.

Re: Good studless ice tire?

NoCoast — Sun, 01 Dec 2013 11:03:18 -0600

Got hakka 5s on my car. Still awesome tires, pricey though.

Re: Good studless ice tire?

b00sted — Sun, 01 Dec 2013 02:59:00 -0600

Quote
Snidewhips
eight hours a tire to do it proper, use doughnut spares, bolt head, washer on tire inside, washer nut on outside, tach weld bolt to nut after tight, sharpen bolt, windshield urethane interior of tire and beads, mount and inflate to max psi.

That is my plan aside from the windshield urethane...I haven't heard of that before. My plan was to use 3M High-Tack on the bolt threads that end up threaded in to the rubber, the underside of the interior washer, and the underside of the interior bolt-head. I did that on dirtbike tires once and they held air quite well all things considered.

JVL, those tires you posted might be a nice alternative. The first race is in January, and there's only 5 ice races total I believe... Their rules mention no screw-in/press in studs, but I'm guessing that's in reference to studdable street tires with studs added after the fact...If these are manufactured with the studs in them, they may not bitch about it. I'd have to ask.

Also, keep in mind that this is for a AutoX on ice basically. The runs last about 60ish seconds and then I can go back and add air to the tires if need be...So even if they slowly lose air over the course of 24 hours or so, it won't be much of an issue to me.

Re: Good studless ice tire?

Snidewhips — Sat, 30 Nov 2013 23:47:02 -0600

eight hours a tire to do it proper, use doughnut spares, bolt head, washer on tire inside, washer nut on outside, tach weld bolt to nut after tight, sharpen bolt, windshield urethane interior of tire and beads, mount and inflate to max psi.

Re: Good studless ice tire?

Carl S — Sat, 30 Nov 2013 21:57:28 -0600

I've heard the weight of a car will rip those kold kutters right out of the tread block.
With liberal use of a sealant, like windshield urathane, you can get a decent enough seal on bolt tires that you don't need to run tubes and liners to protect the tubes. Do bring some spare air though, just in case. Although I have it on good authority that snowmobile studs are the way to go. They're pricey new, but used ones are easy enough to find and they allow an 8v mk3 golf with an open diff to beat evos and stis on bolt tires.

Re: Good studless ice tire?

tdrrally — Sat, 30 Nov 2013 21:01:25 -0600

or
http://www.koldkutter.com/catalog/index.php
work wonders on a motorcycle on ice or rocks

Re: Good studless ice tire?

john vanlandingham — Sat, 30 Nov 2013 20:45:21 -0600

Quote
b00sted
I'm going the studded route...Nut/Washers/Bolt through tire. I was watching videos, and the cars with studded tires just look much more fun...The non-studded guys look like they're trying to navigate an icy parking lot without hitting anything.

They take a LOT of time....and I don't how much time you have...

They're insanely heavy once you have a bunch screws thru them and the ice race guys I knew down east in Maine said you have to have some liner or the heads chew the tubes,,,

all told might be smrater-er to get some trashed for top level rally stuff and fly them in:
http://www.blocket.se/klippan/Rally_is_dack_50378899.htm?ca=1_8&w=3

4st 15" Trelleborg på
5,5" Volvo fälgar. Pris 6000kr

4st 15" utan fälg. pris 2000kr<---------4 pcs without wheels 2000 SEK/around $320

#1 44

skip the first 0

Re: Good studless ice tire?

b00sted — Sat, 30 Nov 2013 20:07:20 -0600

I'm going the studded route...Nut/Washers/Bolt through tire. I was watching videos, and the cars with studded tires just look much more fun...The non-studded guys look like they're trying to navigate an icy parking lot without hitting anything.

Re: Good studless ice tire?

Snidewhips — Sat, 30 Nov 2013 13:23:07 -0600

i had high end toyos on my cherokee. go2plus if i remember correctly but tire manufacturers change models and compounds like car manufacturers do now adays. best ice tire ive driven besides blizzacks. only prob with performance ice tires is theyre soft as chewing gum and wear super fast on dry surface or surfaces over 7 degrees celcius. personally i drive a midrange everyday (bridgestone ice slalom) but the side walls on these and gummy soft performance ice tires have super soft side walls and you experience it in the handling when the car hooks or hits ruts. if you are on straight ice these are great. on my rally cross car i run directional studded highway compound champipro gt winter compound cause the harder casing makes for strong sidewalls for side ways, ruts ect keeps beads on real nice like. i use those fir clay and gravel as well. great for snow ruts ect but icy cornering is alotta slow in fast out or perfect sideways action with not alotta oops room.
there
back on topic kinda
i like skinnier as well to maximize ruts and diggyness

Re: Good studless ice tire?

john vanlandingham — Sat, 30 Nov 2013 13:05:49 -0600

I betcha the winters are still cold in Finland
Helsinki, Finland
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Their education system is still the best in the world, they're still Lutherans and know you must suffer for all the fun you have, so no reason to think they stopped trying to improve things---that is a central part of the whole Nordic culture---always you can do better, never rest, suffer, improve, suffer, improve..never give up. Never. Hakkaa Pääle.

I'd say they're as good as they always have been, probably some others have gotten a lot better to the point its infinitesimal hair splitting differences
between many modern tires sold in places where it really snows a lot..

(ie why would a Malaysian tire need to work in snow?)

Re: Good studless ice tire?

starion887 — Sat, 30 Nov 2013 11:53:53 -0600

OK, so I guess THOSE Hakkapellitta's are not around....but how about the round, black, rubbery ones? LOL....I do the see them online so I guess so. But I have no idea how they stack up anymore. Any comments on the TIRES appreciated....

Re: Good studless ice tire?

Pete — Sat, 30 Nov 2013 07:49:51 -0600

Other European countries get their soldiers named after the food they eat. Finnish solders get named after BLUDGEONY HACKING DEATH.

(But the tires are still available)

Re: Good studless ice tire?

john vanlandingham — Sat, 30 Nov 2013 02:52:12 -0600

Quote
starion887
Are the Hakkapelita's still around?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakkapeliitta
Hakkapeliitta (Finnish pl. hakkapeliitat) is a historiographical term used for a Finnish light cavalryman in the service of King Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden during the Thirty Years' War (1618 to 1648). Hakkapeliitta is a 19th-century Finnish modification of a contemporary name given by foreigners in the Holy Roman Empire and variously spelled as Hackapelit, Hackapelite, Hackapell, Haccapelit, or Haccapelite. These terms were based on a Finnish battle cry hakkaa päälle (English: Hack on them; Swedish: hacka på), commonly translated as "Cut them down!"

The hakkapeliitta-style cavalry was first used during the Polish-Swedish Wars of the late 16th century. In the early 17th century the cavalry led by the Field Marshal Jacob De la Gardie participated in campaigns against Poland and Russia. The Hakkapeliitta cavalry men led by Field Marshal Gustaf Horn were vital to the Swedish victories in Germany during the Thirty Years' War.

The Finnish military march Hakkapeliittain Marssi is named after hakkapeliittas.

Re: Good studless ice tire?

starion887 — Fri, 29 Nov 2013 20:30:30 -0600

Are the Hakkapelita's still around?

Re: Good studless ice tire?

Pete — Fri, 29 Nov 2013 08:13:59 -0600

Quote
Snidewhips
if you can find old model blizzack 50's (not tire profile) the rubber class boys in ice racing up here swear by them and treat like platinum and uranium. not sure what year they were discontinued. ill talk woth my oce racing contact tomorrow and get you exact info.

I had a set of 50s in 2006-ish. In 2008, I couldn't get 'em no more and they were replaced by the 60 which wasn't nearly as good a tire.

Re: Good studless ice tire?

Snidewhips — Fri, 29 Nov 2013 01:11:51 -0600

if you can find old model blizzack 50's (not tire profile) the rubber class boys in ice racing up here swear by them and treat like platinum and uranium. not sure what year they were discontinued. ill talk woth my oce racing contact tomorrow and get you exact info.

Re: Good studless ice tire?

Carl S — Thu, 28 Nov 2013 22:42:48 -0600

The latest blizzaks have "bite particles" in them. Studs are way more fun, though.

Re: Good studless ice tire?

fiasco — Thu, 28 Nov 2013 22:20:56 -0600

Quote
b00sted

Quote
Rallymech
Green Diamond tires. They have ground up carbide mixed into the rubber of the tread.

I've seen those before...How well do they actually work?

They got the job done for street cars.

Don't even know if you can get them nowadays. As I recall, one of the company principals died, leaving a leadership and capital void, and I don't know what happened since then. Their website still sort of exists.

Re: Good studless ice tire?

b00sted — Thu, 28 Nov 2013 18:16:14 -0600

Quote
Rallymech
Green Diamond tires. They have ground up carbide mixed into the rubber of the tread.

I've seen those before...How well do they actually work?

Re: Good studless ice tire?

Rallymech — Thu, 28 Nov 2013 17:37:01 -0600

Green Diamond tires. They have ground up carbide mixed into the rubber of the tread.

Re: Good studless ice tire?

b00sted — Thu, 28 Nov 2013 13:32:59 -0600

Thanks. They allow studded tires too, but I'd have to run a different class...It sounds like it may be worth it though. They allow home-made studs with nuts/washers/bolts.

Re: Good studless ice tire?

john vanlandingham — Thu, 28 Nov 2013 13:28:22 -0600

Tractionized Blizzak.

Re: Good studless ice tire?

MattP — Thu, 28 Nov 2013 13:27:40 -0600

I know that at Rocky this year a number of 2wd cars were using IG20's. Seemed to work well for the conditions we had on the Saturday.

Good studless ice tire?

b00sted — Thu, 28 Nov 2013 12:03:47 -0600

I'm looking for a good studless ice tire for a 2000 Civic. I'm going to be running a few ice rally crosses and I need something that will work well. It has to be a highway-legal tire for the class I'm running. Any suggestions?