I am about to get some belts. I am looking at the g-force. Anyone have any suggestions? -Al https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,18390#msg-18390 Tue, 07 Apr 2026 04:08:03 -0500 Phorum 5.2.15a https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19478#msg-19478 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19478#msg-19478
-Al]]> alkun Construction Zone Mon, 06 Oct 2008 12:22:49 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19469#msg-19469 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19469#msg-19469 -------------------------------------------------------
> When are you going to come by and logbook this
> thing anyway?


I'm really sorry - it's been a busy month for me. Colorado a couple of weeks ago,
Prescott this weekend, and then next weekend I leave to drive out to LSPR. I can probably tech it sometime the week after LSPR. If you're going to Mt. Hood and really need it done before then I'll make some room in my schedule this week. From the looks of things when I saw it last, it should be pretty straightforward.

Unless Al gives me more crap, of course...

]]> hoche Construction Zone Sun, 05 Oct 2008 23:47:55 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19468#msg-19468 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19468#msg-19468 -------------------------------------------------------
> dude belt pins? I have never ever had my belts
> pinned and I can't see how it would make any
> serious difference. I run clip-on willans
> harnesses, and there are eyelets welded to my
> cage. The lap belts and the sub belts share the
> same eyelet on both sides. it's basically
> impossible to get the damn things on. once they
> are there it's a 30 minute job to get them back
> off again hehe.

Here's a clip from the Willans LD6 manual:


]]> hoche Construction Zone Sun, 05 Oct 2008 21:50:08 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19416#msg-19416 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19416#msg-19416
Thanks for the advice, but I got some g-force fia belts already. I've been wearing them around the house like suspenders.

-Al]]> alkun Construction Zone Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:43:23 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19405#msg-19405 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19405#msg-19405
Also as far as belts, I won't do geforce again. I think the belt material is great, there are just one or two design decisions I don't like. The main one being the lap belt adjusters sitting within 4" of the camlock. I much prefer my willans belts that have them outside of the seat area. It's a little tougher to adjust (but not that much) and then you don't have metal on your lap heh. Second is the aforementioned camlock on the lap belts rather than the sub belt(s).]]> cblakely Construction Zone Fri, 03 Oct 2008 00:37:02 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19324#msg-19324 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19324#msg-19324
Regards,
Mark B
]]> starion887 Construction Zone Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:47:57 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19317#msg-19317 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19317#msg-19317 have took at this for NRS rules.....!)
>
> I guess the navvie situation is like helmet prices
> somewhat equating to the value you put on your
> head. Let's see, the quality of a navvie's seat
> mounts shows how much the driver cares?? Have I
> got that right????
>
> Regards,
> Mark B.
>

If the seat belt is illegally mounted on the drivers side what makes it legal on the passenger side of the car if the mount is the same just mirror imaged from the drivers side?



]]> Andrew_Frick Construction Zone Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:44:20 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19307#msg-19307 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19307#msg-19307 simoniac Construction Zone Tue, 30 Sep 2008 12:12:22 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19305#msg-19305 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19305#msg-19305 -------------------------------------------------------
> Re-reading your post, Mark, there's a chance the
> belt may have been attached to an eyebolt on the
> seat bracket and not directly to the stock mount
> bolt so the FIA type rule may have applied. The
> car's not here right now so I can't go out and
> look at it.
>
> It does seem that codrivers are apparently not
> affected by this scenario :-D

Hmmmm, if the car is here in Augusta County (with Marcel), I might have to go look at it. NRS rules do not explicitly prevent you from attaching the harness to the seats mounts; R-A rules explicitly do not allow this method of anchoring. So, you weere technically OK for NRS and not for R-A. (We may have took at this for NRS rules.....!)

I guess the navvie situation is like helmet prices somewhat equating to the value you put on your head. Let's see, the quality of a navvie's seat mounts shows how much the driver cares?? Have I got that right????

Regards,
Mark B.


]]> starion887 Construction Zone Tue, 30 Sep 2008 11:27:17 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19302#msg-19302 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19302#msg-19302 -------------------------------------------------------
> That's the argument.
> Of course, in my opinion (which doesn't matter to
> anyone really but my dog), if the seat mount
> breaks in an accident there's probably some pretty
> bad stuff happening regardless and since the seat
> could now move, the belts will become loose no
> matter what they are bolted too.
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO

Yes, to a certain point. FIA spec test seats and their mounts for a impact sequence of 20G's to the rear, 15G's to the side, and then a 2nd 10G impact to the rear, with a harnessed test dummy. So the FIA test limits are not all that high, and exceeding that is not all that hard. At least in a forward impact, keeping the belts strapped separately keeps the loads off of the seat and its mounts.

Regards,
Mark B.




]]> starion887 Construction Zone Tue, 30 Sep 2008 10:43:11 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19293#msg-19293 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19293#msg-19293
-Al]]> alkun Construction Zone Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:49:44 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19291#msg-19291 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19291#msg-19291 -------------------------------------------------------
> I've heard that story from someone other than
> Lurch. It's not any way for scrutineering to be
> ran. I booted a car for expired belts a couple
> years ago and then offered to go home and get my
> NIB belts and loan them , but I wouldn't sell them
> to him. I haven't even sold a cage in 2 years to
> avoid any conflicts of interest.


reasons why Gene is a badass.

he hooks EVERYONE up. Keep working that Magic.]]> Tom B Construction Zone Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:42:51 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19288#msg-19288 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19288#msg-19288 -------------------------------------------------------
> alkun Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > adversarial is unfortunately the only way
> that
> > works. It ain't so bad. I'd rather have a
> hard-ass
> > inspector anyway.
> >
> > -Alberto
>
> Oh, really?
>
>
> You must like building cages for that Volvo. Shall
> we go for three?
>
>

Ignore that guy...just because he owns the car doesn't mean he knows anything This cage is quite nice and I'm not putting another one in there.

When are you going to come by and logbook this thing anyway?

Tim


]]> Tim Taylor Construction Zone Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:11:56 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19287#msg-19287 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19287#msg-19287 -------------------------------------------------------
> adversarial is unfortunately the only way that
> works. It ain't so bad. I'd rather have a hard-ass
> inspector anyway.
>
> -Alberto

Oh, really?


You must like building cages for that Volvo. Shall we go for three?

]]> hoche Construction Zone Mon, 29 Sep 2008 22:49:57 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19278#msg-19278 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19278#msg-19278 Of course, in my opinion (which doesn't matter to anyone really but my dog), if the seat mount breaks in an accident there's probably some pretty bad stuff happening regardless and since the seat could now move, the belts will become loose no matter what they are bolted too.]]> NoCoast Construction Zone Mon, 29 Sep 2008 19:56:05 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19277#msg-19277 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19277#msg-19277
We were keen to get through tech as you might expect so we acquiesced. And I'm sure the inspector, bless his cotton socks, had our best interests at heart. :-)

Re-reading your post, Mark, there's a chance the belt may have been attached to an eyebolt on the seat bracket and not directly to the stock mount bolt so the FIA type rule may have applied. The car's not here right now so I can't go out and look at it.

It does seem that codrivers are apparently not affected by this scenario :-D

Simon]]> simoniac Construction Zone Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:56:47 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19275#msg-19275 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19275#msg-19275
Regards,
Mark B.]]> starion887 Construction Zone Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:01:21 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19268#msg-19268 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19268#msg-19268
There is adversarial arguing like they do in science and engineering, and adversarial power tripping, unfortuately the alternative to an adversarial system is huge bureaucracy.

I'm sure there are infuriating assholes out there, and I'll probably eat my words, but so far all I've experienced is helpful folks donating their time.

-Berto]]> alkun Construction Zone Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:28:33 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19264#msg-19264 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19264#msg-19264
Seems they didn't care about the safety of the codriver since that seat was secured the same way and wasn't flagged. Interestingly, we passed STPR tech in 2007 in exactly the same configuration.

We suspected something might be up when they tut-tutted at our NRS log book.

Simon
]]> simoniac Construction Zone Mon, 29 Sep 2008 12:05:55 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19259#msg-19259 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19259#msg-19259 -------------------------------------------------------
> adversarial is unfortunately the only way that
> works. It ain't so bad. I'd rather have a hard-ass
> inspector anyway.
>
> -Alberto

Alberto, you do not understand. Nit-picking on totally unimportant things NOT written in the book , playing games ("That fire extinguisher won't do, has to have a metal gauge" ---so you scamble to find a metal guaged bottle" THEN they say "That mount won't do, has to be metal."--- so you find a metal one and THEN "That mount won't do, has to have 2 latches" etc is total bullshit.

And hard ass only works is if is PERFECT and NON-Discrimatory and even then there is NO NEED for hard ass.

Sharp yes, but hard ass---as in acting adversarial is counter productive.
Just like when you get a fucking cop who has forgotten what the purpose of traffic patrols are and makes it into a chance for him to display his simple POWER over you, hard, made up "violations" and adversarial attitudes merely breeds contempt of the person acting the ass and the process.

STPR is infamous for ENDLESS CHICKENSHIT.


]]> Sofa King Construction Zone Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:16:41 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19247#msg-19247 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19247#msg-19247
-Alberto]]> alkun Construction Zone Mon, 29 Sep 2008 01:13:18 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19215#msg-19215 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19215#msg-19215 heymagic Construction Zone Sat, 27 Sep 2008 10:09:31 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19213#msg-19213 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19213#msg-19213 -------------------------------------------------------
> I always removed the cotter pins before going to
> tech at STPR. For several years in a row, the
> tech inspectors there weren't happy unless they
> caught something wrong with your car.

That's...broken. Scrutineers shouldn't be adversarial, they
should be there to make sure your car is safe.]]> hoche Construction Zone Sat, 27 Sep 2008 02:16:08 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19173#msg-19173 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19173#msg-19173 >
> Clip-ins are fine, but don't forget to put in the
> cotter pins. I've started carrying a pile with me
> when I do scrutineering because so many people
> seem to forget them.
>


I always removed the cotter pins before going to tech at STPR. For several years in a row, the tech inspectors there weren't happy unless they caught something wrong with your car.

If nothing was wrong, they'd make something up (like putting roll bar padding down the a-pillars to obstruct your view...and charge you double for the padding...seriously). By giving them something easy to find, it saved a lot of headaches.

Just replaced the pins after tech if they didn't find them missing. (Usually they did, and then felt all proud that they saved my life.)

Oops, my secret's out. Better loosen 1 lugnut per wheel if I ever go to STPR again...they're onto my cotter pin scheme. :)
]]> Lurch Construction Zone Thu, 25 Sep 2008 09:51:32 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19172#msg-19172 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19172#msg-19172
Sparcos/Sabelts will not reset and will stay open if you twist them far enough. If you only twist a little bit, they will return to the "closed" position though. Also, if you twist them carefully, they will just unlock the shoulders and not the lap part. I like that because sometimes I just need to unlock the shoulders, like if I forgot to swing my door partially closed before belting in (although I'm getting pretty good at fishing it closed with my foot).

Clip-ins are fine, but don't forget to put in the cotter pins. I've started carrying a pile with me when I do scrutineering because so many people seem to forget them.
]]> hoche Construction Zone Thu, 25 Sep 2008 02:12:56 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19171#msg-19171 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19171#msg-19171 -------------------------------------------------------
> I had a set of G-force on my last rally car and
> the lap belts would loosen a little during almost
> every stage. I might have been the way the belt
> rode on the seat. I have been running racetech 6
> points on the Focus and I really like them. One
> feature that is not unique to the racetech's that
> I like are the clip latches. Makes taking the
> belts out of the car with seat very easy.

You can get the clip-ins from G-Force and they are cheap. I seem to recall was about $10-$20 extra per belt.

Clip-ins are the only way to go.]]> krisdahl Construction Zone Thu, 25 Sep 2008 00:31:57 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19147#msg-19147 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19147#msg-19147 Andrew_Frick Construction Zone Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:30:41 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19134#msg-19134 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19134#msg-19134 alkun Construction Zone Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:35:10 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19013#msg-19013 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,19013#msg-19013
]]> krisdahl Construction Zone Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:58:07 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,18431#msg-18431 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,18390,18431#msg-18431
http://www.teamtechmotorsports.com/racingharness/index.html]]> pikespeakgtx Construction Zone Thu, 04 Sep 2008 18:37:31 -0500