Super Production build?

Re: Super Production build?

Anders Green — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 10:26:15 -0500

Jon Burke Wrote:
> I just wish they'd do stuff for NASA events as
> well, when they do THAT, they you know they're
> REALLY supporting the sport.

Subaru isn't necessarily in it to support the sport, they're more likely in it to promote themselves. If that's their goal, aligning with a group that wants big media makes perfect sense. I think Subaru is doing exactly the right thing for what they're trying to accomplish. It's just fortunate for us that their self-interest ends up with them giving us money. :)

The $115,000 that Subaru spent on contingency/support last year (I think that's what the article said) is about the price of one employee in their ad agency. Could that one guy have generated as many media impressions of their car as becoming the dominant car of a series? Nope.

Cheers,
Anders

Re: Super Production build?

Jon Burke — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 13:07:12 -0500

tedm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a monster and it NEEDS to be fed!
> Maybe that Paulson dude will fund it.
>
> Ted Mendham
> www.rensport.net

you know what's a riot? My rally/engine build actually helped me make money with all this financial shit. I went overbudget a little, so I took some money out of a mutual fund about 5 months ago to pay for that and buy the used DMS's I picked up. Now that fund has dropped like a rock, and I'm paying back my 'loan to myself' at a much lower price than when I sold it all.

rally loans FTW ;)

Re: Super Production build?

tedm — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 11:43:37 -0500

It's a monster and it NEEDS to be fed!
Maybe that Paulson dude will fund it.

Re: Super Production build?

Jon Burke — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 11:31:57 -0500

^^yeah! that's what I've been sayin'...lol. its not 'just the tranny' unfortunately, and again, all you're doing is 'keeping up' with the existing STI's that only had to get the group-N brake kits.

Re: Super Production build?

tedm — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 10:09:18 -0500

Billy,
That's great, but the big picture is gonna cost more. I would want to control that fancy center diff. The 1/2 shafts are different. Might as well put on the later hubs too. And a group-n brake kit to bolt on those nice hubs. And new struts. The ears are different. And the big rear end. Oh yeah the carriers are differnt. How about the drive-shaft? New clutch. Might as well get the kit, from a mall parking lot. ;-)

Re: Super Production build?

BillyElliot — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 08:54:39 -0500

http://www.y2kimports.com/parts04to06sti.htm

This is a place local in the Detroit area. They pick up any and all salvage title STIs in the area (and beyond) and then part them out in kits.

$3500 for 04/05 trans
$4000 for 06 trans
$4500 for 07 trans

$600 for R160 rear diff.

Not as cheap as the $3000 for everything but still well under the $6000 quote that some have said.

I'm pretty sure once (and that is IF, I still might be a G2 slut for life) I rally subarus, these guys will be on my #1 speed dial.

WRX is junk, need STi!

tedm — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 05:42:15 -0500

http://www.specialstage.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=1085&cat=all

"This is a 2004 Subaru Impreza WRX we started to prep as a PGT class rally car but stopped almost immediately as the rules changed so we are selling it to search for an STI instead. So this car is immediately available."

Re: Super Production build?

Pete — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 20:47:42 -0500

tedm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why water down the Meth?
>
> Ted Mendham
> www.rensport.net

Why dilute the water?

Re: Super Production build?

Jon Burke — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:31:30 -0500

gilbrock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You might be able to have it back, I'm on the
> fence about PGT. Too much money in new parts to
> get it back to PGT, and I'd rather go nuts with
> lightening and a nicer tranny I think. I dunno,
> decisions decisions....

NP, just don't chuck it. If you don't use it, I'll get it back from you at some point and use to to practice welding w/aluminum.

Re: Super Production build?

gilbrock — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:16:22 -0500

You might be able to have it back, I'm on the fence about PGT. Too much money in new parts to get it back to PGT, and I'd rather go nuts with lightening and a nicer tranny I think. I dunno, decisions decisions....

Re: Super Production build?

Jon Burke — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:55:46 -0500

yeah, its cool...but impossible for me as I'd have to do another engine build back DOWN to 2.0L, repurchase a stock td-04, stock intercooler (Eli, give me back my intercooler! LOL), stock ecu, etc, etc, etc. All for 1 RA event not near me? (seed 9).

I'll just keep my car as-is and 'do what I want'. Which has been the plan all along :D

I just wish they'd do stuff for NASA events as well, when they do THAT, they you know they're REALLY supporting the sport.

BUT, it will be interesting to see how this new class does. Sounds like the first couple Subaru SP-class players will be getting some cash for sure.

Re: Super Production build?

david amor — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 07:36:07 -0500

Well this makes me want to get serious again. I wonder just how illegal my car would be in SP. Now where'd that link to the proposed rules go? Any co-drivers listening? my long time co-driver is mostly retired.

......the hunger in me returns..........

Edit; never mind. My car is irrevocably OPEN!!!

Re: Super Production build?

tedm — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 07:25:49 -0500

Jon,
Thanks for posting this. I was about to do the same.
That's what I'm talking about! Like it or not, this has to looked at.
Ted

Re: Super Production build?

Jon Burke — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:52:52 -0500

LOL, thanks. yeah, I'm not there yet. I have a spare 2.5L block that needs to be built out, so maybe that's next year's project ;) My current engine CR is 8.2:1

oh look, trickle down rally economics at work :D

Quote

2009 Subaru Contingency Program for Rally America Teams

Subaru of America is once again providing contingency support for Rally America National and Regional competitors in Subaru vehicles. Subaruâ€™s generous 2009 National Championship support will switch from PGT to the more inclusive new Super Production class, and 2002 to current Impreza models will be eligible for the higher payouts under plan â€œAâ€. All currently eligible Subaru PGT vehicles will continue to be eligible in the new Super Production class. Also continuing for 2009 is a program whereby participating eligible regional competitors will receive a start fund for all classes in national championship support events:

Subaru press release:

(September 25, 2008) Subaru of America Inc. announced today that it will continue its support of Subaru drivers in the 2009 Rally America National Championship. The 2009 Subaru Rally Support program, which began in 2005, continues to represent the largest total prize payouts in North American rallying with a total purse of nearly $115,000. The biggest change to the program for 2009 will be a shift of prize money from the Production GT (PGT) class to the newly announced Super Production class (SP).

The all-new Super Production class was recently created by Rally America to offer a compromise between the top-tier Open class and the more restrictive Production GT class. This new category will provide a playground for 2002-2008 Subaru WRX and STI models among others and should prove to be the most hotly contested Rally America class championship in 2009. Nearly $13,000 per event will be available to participants, with the top finishing Subaru SP class finisher netting $3000. Prize payouts will be awarded to the top 10 finishing Subaru SP class registrants.

The SP class will appeal to many Subaru drivers because it allows several key modifications to Subaru WRX and/or STI model rally cars to make them more affordable to prepare and run as well as more competitive overall compared to the PGT class. This includes allowing vehicles to be updated or backdated within a body style of the model. Additionally the rules allow the fitting of hydraulic handbrakes and allow for many more brake modifications compared to the PGT class. The SP class will also feature a larger turbo inlet restrictor than the PGT class, 34mm versus 32mm, allowing SP cars to produce potentially more power.

"By creating this new class, Rally America acknowledges the growing field of rally-capable cars in the U.S. market and has made a substantial step forward in making the sport more accessible and inclusionary," explains James Han of Subaru of America, Inc. "Subaru is pleased to support the efforts of Rally America and proud to offer the most lucrative contingency program in U.S. rally to support the efforts of eligible Subaru privateers."

In addition to support to SP class participants at Rally America National Championship events, Subaru of America Inc., will also offer a $200 'start fund' to any class Subaru entered in a Rally America Regional rally that runs concurrent to a national event weekend.

The 2009 Subaru Rally Support Program is administered and managed by Vermont SportsCar. For complete rules and information on how to register please visit rally.subaru.com

For more information about the Rally America's new Super Production class please read through the latest bulletin outlining the class: www.rally-america.com
or contact Rally America directly: www.rally-america.com

Re: Super Production build?

david amor — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:29:58 -0500

Jon Burke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> John Vanos Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I would have to check what dyno make it was
> but we
> > dynoed our 2.5l engine with higher
> compression (I
> > think 10:1 or so) with stock heads, stock
> turbo,
> > Hydra engine management and 110 octane
> fuel...Dyno
> > read 389WTQ
>
>
> so, I've been told/researched that high
> compression engines are bad for boosting, yah? or
> is that possible because you're running 100% race
> gas?
>
>
> and to the group, water/meth injection is against
> the rules, right?
>
>
>
>
> Jon Burke - KI6LSW
> Blog:
> 'Holy Shit!' @ 4:10

You gotta stop reading nasoic Jon!!! REAL race motors can use a combination of higher boost AND higher compression. Cause they run on REAL race gas. (In Canada we don't have the 103 oct requirement so we can use better fuel).

Also to comment on some of the dyno #'s posted. I just don't buy it. Maybe my dyno wasn't calibrated correctly but it DID make
And IIRC John Vano's old motor actually dyno'd at 498ft/lbs NOT 398!!!

Re: Super Production build?

Jon Burke — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 12:23:44 -0500

gilbrock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I went back and checked the rulebook and couldn't
> find it. I must have dreamed it.

ORLY? that's interesting.....

Re: Super Production build?

gilbrock — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 11:08:13 -0500

I went back and checked the rulebook and couldn't find it. I must have dreamed it.

Re: Super Production build?

david amor — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 20:07:40 -0500

gilbrock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes. No water or meth injection.

Where does it say no water injection? I know for certain it's allowed in Canada.

Re: Super Production build?

gilbrock — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:23:52 -0500

Yes. No water or meth injection.

Re: Super Production build?

tedm — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:08:34 -0500

Why water down the Meth?

Re: Super Production build?

Jon Burke — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:52:45 -0500

John Vanos Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would have to check what dyno make it was but we
> dynoed our 2.5l engine with higher compression (I
> think 10:1 or so) with stock heads, stock turbo,
> Hydra engine management and 110 octane fuel...Dyno
> read 389WTQ

so, I've been told/researched that high compression engines are bad for boosting, yah? or is that possible because you're running 100% race gas?

and to the group, water/meth injection is against the rules, right?

Re: Super Production build?

Do It Sidewayz — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:33:43 -0500

John,

Neetronics old dyno, which was great for tuning, because you could stall the car out at WOT, was notorious for reading low....i know it "reads" lower than their new dyno which reads "spot on"

The only benefit to the STi intercoolers is they are larger, well ok they also have STi painted on them! BLING!! They are made the same, they are just a little bigger, and use a metal "y-pipe" and a short silicone elbow into the turbo.

I've had a WRX i/c split on me in the same way that john mentioned. It's not from high boost however. Mine split because i wasn't using the factory mounts to support the core, and it was really only supported by the end tanks and y-pipe, from the vibration it opened up the pinch seam.

All easily fixed with a pair of vice grips and about 3 minutes.

Re: Super Production build?

John Vanos — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:18:56 -0500

haha, ohhhh i got ya

RE the intercooler, we split the STI (version 8, bigger than the USDM slightly) on the above noted engine...we were only pulling 18psi or so and it had been used for about 6 events. It took us a few minutes to realize it was the actual intercooler seams (they are bent to seal if you know what i mean, not welded) because its not something we thought would be a problem at that level of boost. But yes, they are better than wrx and can be had pretty cheap

Re: Super Production build?

gilbrock — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:28:41 -0500

John Vanos Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> im not sure I follow you Chris, but it was at
> Neetronics old shop, Iain at Planet tuned it there

'Heart breaker' dynos are a generic term for low-reading dynos - usually the Mustang dynos. The ricers get all heartbroken when they go in with their tons of mods and pull less than the stock crank hp. hehe

Re: Super Production build?

gilbrock — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:26:57 -0500

Yes Ted - both are bigger/more efficient.

And I've never heard of an STi intercooler split.

Besides, they're so cheap - with so many aftermarket options and people wanting to ditch their stock STi ones - that it shouldn't matter. Easily have one as a spare.

Re: Super Production build?

tedm — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:49:11 -0500

David,
I meant is the sti intercooler/turbo better than the wrx. I'm sure there are better things out there, but are they legal to run in RA SP?

Also, what psi do the sti intercoolers blow up at?
Thanks,
Ted

Re: Super Production build?

John Vanos — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:45:01 -0500

im not sure I follow you Chris, but it was at Neetronics old shop, Iain at Planet tuned it there

Re: Super Production build?

Do It Sidewayz — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:27:42 -0500

john...that was probably on the "heart breaker" dyno too...reads pretty low!

Re: Super Production build?

John Vanos — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:39:34 -0500

I would have to check what dyno make it was but we dynoed our 2.5l engine with higher compression (I think 10:1 or so) with stock heads, stock turbo, Hydra engine management and 110 octane fuel...Dyno read 389WTQ

Of course all depends on dyno make etc. but still, 450wtq i'd say is easily possible, we still didnt have any water injection, bigger turbo, better heads

One thing is for sure, there was no need for antilag on that thing, it just went from 2000rpm!!

When we build another motor before pines we'll build the same thing, it was relatively cheap, devastatingly quick and very reliable

Re: Super Production build?

david amor — Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:05:44 -0500

tedm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If a properly funded team (not me) is going to
> fork out huge $ for a fresh build, late model
> shell, sti 6 speed, proper diffs, blah, blah,
> blah, it would be well worth knowing which block
> to go with.
>
> The 2.5 liter block should be lighter, no?
>
no it's heavier. not by much though.

> Sti's have better intercoolers, no?
marginally. they split open under big boost.

>
> Better turbo?
there are much better turbos.

> And intercooler waterspray, stock, no?
you'd want some real engine management. mine controls waterspray and even water injection if i wanted.
> Why not have the dude in Lawrence boost a
> Cadillac?
>
>
>
> Ted Mendham
> www.rensport.net