NEFR punished my car this weekend. The car is a '79 VW Rabbit which was setup in WA and run our in the PNW 8 or 9 years ago. It is way too low for some of the brutal stages out here, I smashed my oil pan, control arm mounting points and engine mounts after 4 stages on Sat and DNF'd. We were able to patch the pan and run the last stage conservatively just for fun but one the car was back in the shop it was clear that there is significant damage. Anyway, I want to give it a lift and stiffen it up in the front. Currently I'm running Bilstein HDs all around with mystery springs that are low and pretty soft. The rear spring perches were set all the way to the bottom but I jacked them up and feel pretty good about the rear but need to figure out what to do up front. Right now my options look like A.find some taller heavier front springs or B. coilovers of some sort. Any VW drivers/builders with an opinion (especially those who have run NEFR/Black River or other such terrain in early VWs). https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29553#msg-29553 Tue, 07 Apr 2026 08:16:24 -0500 Phorum 5.2.15a https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,30274#msg-30274 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,30274#msg-30274 mack73 Construction Zone Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:31:14 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,30270#msg-30270 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,30270#msg-30270
I did just that and cringed as I approached the curb then giggled about 2 seconds later as the car just smoothed right over it.

Anyway, back to spring rates and length.

You need AT LEAST 1.7 times the shock stroke in spring length. Preferably you have closre to 2 times the stroke in spring length. SO, get out your measuring stick and figure it out. In our case, we ran 14" front and 18" (a 10" and an 8" spring wiht a slider) in the rear.

As for rates when we had Bilstein HD's with about 160mm stroke and soft damping we ran a 300# spring up front to prevent bottoming. With the JVLs we ran 170mm stroke and 300/100 or 300/120 damping with 250# front springs and a 90mm internal bumpstop (esentially 1 and 1/2 stock bilstein bumps). I think if we had some of his longer stuff at around 190mm we would run softer springs in front like 225#


In the rear we ran 200# springs with the Bilstein HD's and about 180 (note with stacked springs you have to calculate the actual spring rate) with the bilstein Baja shocks like John sells.

Our new RSSP setup from Rallispec is longer and softer with 190+mm stroke in front and 225# springs with some 150# tender springs. Rear is 165# with 200+mm stroke and a 100# tender spring.


]]> Josh Wimpey Construction Zone Tue, 11 Aug 2009 20:28:11 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,30268#msg-30268 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,30268#msg-30268 -------------------------------------------------------
> Josh is on the new VW RSSPs from Rallispec now.
>

Yes but he was winning for what? 5 years on the modified Ford 909 Bilstien stuff he got where?


> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO


]]> john vanlandingham Construction Zone Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:59:44 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,30266#msg-30266 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,30266#msg-30266 NoCoast Construction Zone Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:25:00 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,30265#msg-30265 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,30265#msg-30265 -------------------------------------------------------
>
> Any of the the VW folks have an opinion or
> suggestions (Tom, Josh?)

Maybe ask Josdh and Tom where they got their suspension, ya know?
Go straight to the source and all?


]]> john vanlandingham Construction Zone Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:11:58 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,30263#msg-30263 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,30263#msg-30263 Carl S Construction Zone Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:48:51 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,30262#msg-30262 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,30262#msg-30262
I've seen suggestion from 175-300 lbs for front spring weights and 150-200lbs rear. Ground control kits come standard with 7" long springs but this sounds too short.

I am planning on going on the slightly heavier side with spring weights since my engine and transmission conversion have added a bit more to the Rabbit and I have been crashing down on the bump stops. Also had been thinking of running spring lengths close to what is already on there 10" F and 11" R. This is my first foray into coilover construction so I am just going with my guy and what I've been able to sift through on forums.

Any of the the VW folks have an opinion or suggestions (Tom, Josh?)]]> Greasecar Construction Zone Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:25:49 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29874#msg-29874 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29874#msg-29874 ]]> brianallmotor Construction Zone Tue, 28 Jul 2009 21:23:12 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29865#msg-29865 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29865#msg-29865 -------------------------------------------------------
> Well I pulled the front strut assemblies out this
> afternoon but haven't gotten the chance to take
> them apart yet. Here's what they look like
> assembled.
>
> They are inverted units with squishy springs.
> They look like stock VW springs and have paint
> markings but I don't know how to de-code them. I
> got an Email from Pete VanBogart who originally
> built and raced the car who suggests that I don't
> raise it due to handling.
>

Well, I would agree with him there. Somewhere I've got video from years ago of a Rabbit with jacked up suspension rolling over on a very slow but tight corner. Come to think of it I have video of more than one doing that. If that tells you anything.]]> Doivi Clarkinen Construction Zone Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:32:16 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29854#msg-29854 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29854#msg-29854 I know your suspension is stiff as hell, I couldn't get it to bounce standing on the bumper. How did your underside hold up last week?]]> Greasecar Construction Zone Tue, 28 Jul 2009 07:50:33 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29853#msg-29853 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29853#msg-29853
They are inverted units with squishy springs. They look like stock VW springs and have paint markings but I don't know how to de-code them. I got an Email from Pete VanBogart who originally built and raced the car who suggests that I don't raise it due to handling.

I'm working on pulling the engine and it looks like I may be able to gain an inch or two of clearance underneath but still feel like the suspension is soft.]]> Greasecar Construction Zone Tue, 28 Jul 2009 07:27:23 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29850#msg-29850 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29850#msg-29850
"aint nothing but a skid plate, bay-bee!"

black river from what i recall last year was not many rocks, very smooth. and it is a very compact rally, with little transit miles. night stages, make sure lights work / battery capacity ect....

we are staying at the small cabins in the center of town, just near parce expose and headquarters and the bar!

-Brian]]> brianallmotor Construction Zone Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:47:04 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29792#msg-29792 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29792#msg-29792
On the second stage, I guess I was a bit too excited came over a crest into a gully. I guestimate we were doing about 65-75 mph, got out of shape on a down hill right 4 into up hill left 4 into right 5 combo. I over corrected and got really early for the apex of the up hill left 4....full throttle, right turn lock, dirt berm on the inside of the turn so it wasn't a good place to cut, we just barely had the wrong line.

I was looking at the next corner when we nicked the driver's front first, that sent us into a spin, tagged the right front, dug into the berm, and kicked the car over passenger side first, and really taking me for a ride on the roll...only one roll with a pretty hard upside down smack, just straight on to the top front of the cage and onto the main hoop. With the remaining momentum we spun on the top directly into the center of the road about 150 yards up the hill from the initial impact. We were out right away, to start getting the rest of the field slowed down to get around the car as it was blocking the stage almost completely.

No video unfortunately, although it was a nice feeling finally realizing I wouldn't have to band aid that piece of crap back together again. It was very satisfying cutting it up.]]> Tom B Construction Zone Sat, 25 Jul 2009 16:22:15 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29760#msg-29760 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29760#msg-29760 Saabfarm Construction Zone Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:10:04 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29757#msg-29757 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29757#msg-29757 BillyElliot Construction Zone Fri, 24 Jul 2009 08:39:17 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29746#msg-29746 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29746#msg-29746 -------------------------------------------------------
> That's actually the first rally car Pete Van
> Bogart (Cascade Autosport) built and campaigned.
> Originally running a turbo motor. The thing with
> Rabbits is if you jack them up too tall they
> handle like crap and get too much body roll and
> tip over too easy. Probably you just need stiffer
> suspension than you have now, I wouldn't really
> raise it. Tom Buress' car was lower than that and
> I don't think there was ever anyone faster in a
> Rabbit.

I tried emailing Pete about the car a few months ago but never heard from him, he's probably sick of hearing from people about this car as it has floated around a bit in the last few years. I agree that stiffening is the priority and I think I can gain at least an inch underneath by raising the skidplate so that I don't have to lift the suspension too much. From looking at the photos of several of the other VWs making the same turns as I did last week it is clear that my suspension is much softer while static clearance is just a bit lower.

I'm definately trying to take as much from Tom's experience as possible.
]]> Greasecar Construction Zone Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:43:11 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29745#msg-29745 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29745#msg-29745 > OK OK! We can make it work and can make you stuff
> pretty quick, but at some point we need to see
> what you currently have.

Sorry, couldn't help it, Pete just posted the photos today.

I'll be back in town tomorrow night and hopefully will have suspension details early next week.
]]> Greasecar Construction Zone Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:35:55 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29743#msg-29743 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29743#msg-29743 -------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, and here are some more photos, you can really
> see how soft and bad the suspension is.

OK OK! We can make it work and can make you stuff pretty quick, but at some point we need to see what you currently have.


]]> john vanlandingham Construction Zone Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:08:35 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29740#msg-29740 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29740#msg-29740 do you care to share why your car was upside down.]]> BJosephD Construction Zone Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:40:52 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29739#msg-29739 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29739#msg-29739 http://www.onalimbracing.com/photos/2009_New_England_Forest_Rally/501.htm]]> Greasecar Construction Zone Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:38:09 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29738#msg-29738 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29738#msg-29738
In the videos of the Fish Pond stage you can hear all the rocks pownding the skid plate until it was bent and hanging off a bit (hence the "don't back up" comment at the end of stage 10 before we fixed the oil pan and ripped the skidplate off.

Any photos of successful Rabbit skidplates and front reinforcement welcome (thanks again, Tom!)]]> Greasecar Construction Zone Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:37:06 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29734#msg-29734 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29734#msg-29734

front framehorn brace/skidplate mount:


front skidplate support mount:


frame horn supports:


Oil pan stiffening from flattening out the skidplate (happened ALOT):



I would look into a stiffer front spring and valving along with a bit more travel....you may want to raise the front towers a bit to get extra travel. unfortunately the way they designed the rabbit, it is a bitch to not damage the skid plate up front....trust me we went through about 4-5 evolutions of front skid plates...here is our last attempt.. never really got to prove it though, looked mean?!?



we bent the piss out of that car in the front end....lots of heat and hammering kept it straight after what seemed like every event.]]> Tom B Construction Zone Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:21:44 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29696#msg-29696 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29696#msg-29696 turoc Construction Zone Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:50:37 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29692#msg-29692 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29692#msg-29692
I overheard somebody saying "Don't back up!!" near the car at one point.]]> fiasco Construction Zone Thu, 23 Jul 2009 09:46:56 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29689#msg-29689 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29689#msg-29689 tedm Construction Zone Thu, 23 Jul 2009 09:31:57 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29670#msg-29670 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29670#msg-29670
You can hear how brutal it was in this video, we're the 3rd or 4th car through.


]]> Greasecar Construction Zone Wed, 22 Jul 2009 18:00:40 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29656#msg-29656 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29656#msg-29656
Dave ]]> DexterVW Construction Zone Wed, 22 Jul 2009 11:02:07 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29649#msg-29649 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29649#msg-29649
Look how low the car was dropping into a relatively wide turn.
]]> Greasecar Construction Zone Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:00:02 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29642#msg-29642 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29642#msg-29642 -------------------------------------------------------
> So you think standard inserts are fine instead of
> inverted? Are you recommending coil over tubes
> though or should I just play with springs?

No no I am assuming you have the inverted 40s but short ones like everybody gets initially.

That's why I'm saying let's whip a strut apart to nail down per-zactly what you have re: lengths, and valving and just what you have.

Measure, photo, measure spring etc think about top mounts too..


Clarkalainenen is right. It IS a narrow car and we can't make it too tippy but we know the car will beat itself apart if kept too short and too stiff.



]]> john vanlandingham Construction Zone Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:42:26 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29637#msg-29637 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,29553,29637#msg-29637 Greasecar Construction Zone Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:07:12 -0500