This project it turning out so silly that I thought I would share. We're building a '71 Honda Z600 Coupe for the upcoming Thunderhill 24 Hours of LeMons. It seems like you could make a badass MaxAttack car the same way as long as you were willing to put the co-driver in the back seat [IMG]http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/smileys/smilie1.gif[/IMG] We started with a rotting Z600 that we pulled from the side yard of a soon to be foreclosed home...it needed a thorough cleaning as it was a spider habitat [IMG]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/yetiult/Z600%20LeMons%20Car/IMG_1334.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/yetiult/Z600%20LeMons%20Car/IMG_1337.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/yetiult/Z600%20LeMons%20Car/IMG_1335.jpg[/IMG] And this is where it all goes either stupid or really cool depending on your perspective. What's that in the passenger seat? [IMG]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/yetiult/Z600%20LeMons%20Car/IMG_1395.jpg[/IMG] We're sticking a VF1100 Honda Magna v-4 engine in the passenger seat and making the car mid-engine rear-wheel drive. That means we have 105hp, 80lb-ft, a 10,000rpm redline, and a 6-speed sequential gearbox in a 250lb package that you can buy all day long for a couple hundred bucks. [IMG]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/yetiult/Z600%20LeMons%20Car/IMG_1396.jpg[/IMG] The suspension on a Z600 is utter crap because it used the front sway bar as a trailing link. Stomp on the brakes and get a huge amount of dynamic toe out from all the flex...hmmmmm, what could solve this? How about a thrashed 1st gen RX-7 roller to chop the suspension out of[IMG]http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/smileys/smilie1.gif[/IMG] [IMG]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/yetiult/Z600%20LeMons%20Car/IMG_1444.jpg[/IMG] Some quick plasma cutting and it gave up it's front suspension easily [IMG]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/yetiult/Z600%20LeMons%20Car/IMG_1446.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/yetiult/Z600%20LeMons%20Car/IMG_1451.jpg[/IMG] Then I sectioned the subframe and made everything 6" narrower [IMG]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/yetiult/Z600%20LeMons%20Car/IMG_1461.jpg[/IMG] Some careful chopping on the Z gets you from this [IMG]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/yetiult/Z600%20LeMons%20Car/IMG_1400.jpg[/IMG] To this version where the bastard hybrid just slips together [IMG]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/yetiult/Z600%20LeMons%20Car/IMG_1465.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/yetiult/Z600%20LeMons%20Car/IMG_1464.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/yetiult/Z600%20LeMons%20Car/IMG_1467.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/yetiult/Z600%20LeMons%20Car/IMG_1471.jpg[/IMG] I've already made up a dummy 3rd member with slugs for my true bar [IMG]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/yetiult/Z600%20LeMons%20Car/IMG_1473.jpg[/IMG] That should make quick work of narrowing the rear axle this weekend. [IMG]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r6/yetiult/Z600%20LeMons%20Car/IMG_1422.jpg[/IMG] All Japanese axles are 45deg splines so it's a simple matter to chop 3" off each axle shaft and re-spline them with a cutter that I already own. https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,31602#msg-31602 Thu, 04 Jun 2026 05:04:32 -0500 Phorum 5.2.15a https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33789#msg-33789 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33789#msg-33789 phlat65 Construction Zone Sun, 29 Nov 2009 19:07:57 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33762#msg-33762 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33762#msg-33762 NoCoast Construction Zone Sun, 29 Nov 2009 12:12:26 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33755#msg-33755 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33755#msg-33755
-D]]> eyesoreracing Construction Zone Sun, 29 Nov 2009 11:41:52 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33744#msg-33744 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33744#msg-33744 -------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks to Dave for this fantastic shot of the
> wounded car after the starter fell out:
>
>


Next time: BIGGER JACK STANDS!]]> david amor Construction Zone Sun, 29 Nov 2009 04:08:30 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33741#msg-33741 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33741#msg-33741
I had over 3 hours of wheel-to-wheel madness at Thunderhill for his price. I was literally begging for the checkered flag at the end.

-Dave]]> eyesoreracing Construction Zone Sun, 29 Nov 2009 02:53:46 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33534#msg-33534 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33534#msg-33534 phlat65 Construction Zone Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:52:23 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33522#msg-33522 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33522#msg-33522 fiasco Construction Zone Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:56:45 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33515#msg-33515 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33515#msg-33515
]]> Tim Taylor Construction Zone Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:46:01 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33477#msg-33477 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33477#msg-33477 -------------------------------------------------------
> There are going top be a million pictures of this
> thing around the internet very soon. I must have
> answered the question, "What engine is that?" at
> least 300 times. Sunday was entertaining too.
> Someone even got a whole picture sequence of the
> starter motor falling out of the engine (at about
> 80mph accelerating on the front strait) causing
> the whole inside of the car to go white with smoke
> instantly. I kissed the wall slowing it down,
> dented a front rim, and drove it into the pits
> with the starter hanging on the ground under the
> car by the cable. We found more bolts to put it
> back in and the thing started up perfectly so we
> went back out. Then Kyle broke part of the
> transmissions internal shifter mechanism after
> about 12 laps.

Better luck next time.. The car looks hot!]]> hudson Construction Zone Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:12:45 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33453#msg-33453 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33453#msg-33453
]]> Tim Taylor Construction Zone Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:37:13 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33452#msg-33452 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33452#msg-33452 NoCoast Construction Zone Mon, 23 Nov 2009 11:07:48 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33451#msg-33451 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33451#msg-33451 NoCoast Construction Zone Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:59:48 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33430#msg-33430 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33430#msg-33430
It worked! (for a while). And it was fast. Tim took the first stint; 45 minutes of pure rodent fury . Then a little fuel and driver swap , burped the coolant, and out went Kyle the giant killer. A little more burping, then steady Ed clicked off 20 laps like clockwork. Now came the bold move of putting yours truly in the drivers seat. I willfully ignored the fact that not only had I never driven the thing, I had not even SAT in there yet, and off I went. Pure pleasure with teeny tiny pedals! I'll just say coming out of a corner at 10 K on a 80 inch wheelbase is fun. Soon there were folks pointing at me and waving black flags. At first I thought it was because I was driving so awesome, but it turns out failed bolts were letting all the various lubes dump onto the exhaust. Smoke screen is against the rules I guess.

The bolts were buried in the gear box, It took until the end of the day to get it put back together. Further teething problems shut it down again this morning. All in all it worked stunningly well when it was working. Not too shabby for a first test. And oh yeah, it was the first time any of us had driven on a track, hee hee!

Lemons racing is stupid good fun.]]> alkun Construction Zone Sun, 22 Nov 2009 13:24:04 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33397#msg-33397 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33397#msg-33397
Meanwhile, back on topic (!).

Tim's car looks awesome, in a terrifying kind of way. He pulled a nearly all-nighter last night putting a driveshaft loop in in lieu of a rear floor, then showed up just in time for last-minute tech.

Then, in tech, they weren't able to find the FIA label on the fuel cell that he has mounted just behind the driver's seat (!!! again...), and without an FIA cert, the cell has to be separated from the driver compartment. So he loaded up on a trailer and headed home to make a box.

Just talked to him a few minutes ago and apparently he just found the label inside the cell. Hopefully that means he can sleep.

Race starts tomorrow morning.]]> eyesoreracing Construction Zone Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:05:55 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33322#msg-33322 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33322#msg-33322 alkun Construction Zone Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:33:54 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33318#msg-33318 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33318#msg-33318 -------------------------------------------------------
> $4000 divided by 6 drivers?
>
> And how much to do the next race?
>
> -Dave


That was the second one, with a built car...

---

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have you ever done a stage rally Pete?
> I do it on the cheap and still have to
> count on at least $2000 for the weekend.

You kind of help make my argument.

Sure, on a per person basis you can do a Lemons race for $1000 or so for a six driver team. Do you divvy up your expenses with your co-driver? (I ask merely for information, here)

I'm also assuming that any non-driving team members aren't buying in.





]]> Pete Construction Zone Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:17:44 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33315#msg-33315 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33315#msg-33315 I've never touched anything two wheeled other than the less power than a lawn mower 50 cc Honda Ruckus engine. :)]]> NoCoast Construction Zone Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:36:39 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33314#msg-33314 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33314#msg-33314
Are you just using it to turn the output 90 degrees? The NZ car has a longitudinal engine, so the driveshaft goes straight down the tunnel with no funny business.

-Dave]]> eyesoreracing Construction Zone Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:20:08 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33313#msg-33313 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33313#msg-33313 -------------------------------------------------------
> I have pictures of a hayabusa engine in a starlet
> from that rally I went to in New Zealand. Pictures
> aren't that great, but you get the idea for how it
> should be done. The installation was very clean.
> They spent the big bux and even had a quaife
> reverese box.
>
> I can dig up pictures when I get back from LeMons,
> but the short version is: replace the output
> sprocket with a u-joint and just run a driveshaft.
> Engine mounts longitudinally.
>
> I think they ended up needing an unusual final
> drive, but I can't remember if it was unusually
> tall or short. I think it was tall. It was an
> Escort axle at the back, but the gears came from
> old ganny cars and they were having some problems
> breaking them. (this is all secondhand chatter
> overheard in a spectator area a few hours after I
> actually talked to the mechanics.)

I've watched much video of that car! That's exactly what I was thinking for the sprocket. Just a U-joint on both ends short driveshaft going to a 4G63 transfer case or something similar.
There was a japanese Pike's Peak unlimited car that had this crazy setup where I think they used three or four of the transfer cases to get power around to where it needed to be. I might have a picture around somewhere...

]]> NoCoast Construction Zone Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:43:14 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33312#msg-33312 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33312#msg-33312
I can dig up pictures when I get back from LeMons, but the short version is: replace the output sprocket with a u-joint and just run a driveshaft. Engine mounts longitudinally.

I think they ended up needing an unusual final drive, but I can't remember if it was unusually tall or short. I think it was tall. It was an Escort axle at the back, but the gears came from old ganny cars and they were having some problems breaking them. (this is all secondhand chatter overheard in a spectator area a few hours after I actually talked to the mechanics.)

-Dave]]> eyesoreracing Construction Zone Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:32:44 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33311#msg-33311 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33311#msg-33311 NoCoast Construction Zone Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:12:36 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33310#msg-33310 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33310#msg-33310 Good article by the way Dave. Was definitely a fun and interesting read and it displayed just fine on IE on my PC running Vista.]]> NoCoast Construction Zone Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:07:20 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33309#msg-33309 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33309#msg-33309
And how much to do the next race?

-Dave]]> eyesoreracing Construction Zone Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:02:19 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33308#msg-33308 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33308#msg-33308 -------------------------------------------------------
> It is cheaper. Cheaper to build and MUCH cheaper
> to maintain.
>

I am not privy to our team's finances and I don't know what I am at liberty to divulge, but from looking at what I know was spent, last year I estimate it was $4000 to show up, and we didn't use any of the stack of tires and jugs of fuel so those were sold off to recoup expenses.

That was showing up with the previous year's car. I count all entry fees in that number, it's part of what it costs to be there isn't it?

Entry fee, towing, hotel, team dinner, etc all add up fast. I think the car itself was $100 and prep consisted of putting a cage in it and making sure it had fluids and brake pads and stuff.

So cheaper than stage rally? Perhaps, but not very much so.

I don't know what this year cost at all, or even how well we did... when I realized that the expenses were going to be out of my league I shut the team out of my mind entirely. Can't talk about what you don't know, after all.


]]> Pete Construction Zone Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:53:25 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33307#msg-33307 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33307#msg-33307
great amounts of fun to be had for relatively few bills. Our little TE-86 Corolla was a hoot when it was actually out on the track.

Must say I was quite surprised to not here more chatter on here before the Chump at PIR.

As for Tim's build. Wow great work! I think this IS the spirt of the rules. Knowledge, and a great shop, are power. have all of your documentation, receipts together and you should be fine. Now I've gotta go recruit a machinist for our team.]]> slidewayswrx Construction Zone Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:19:20 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33302#msg-33302 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33302#msg-33302
For our frankenmiata, we spent about $200 to build the car (made so much from our parts car it nearly paid for the whole thing).

2nd race, we spent $30 on rod bearings, $20 on an oil cooler, and $60 on synthetic oil

3rd race we spent nothing on the car.

4th race we finally changed the oil.

We typically use 4, 14" street tires per race. Takes about 3 races to use a set of pads. Still running the used rotors we found with the car.

Entry fee is slightly higher than rally, but its split between 4-6 people.

We don't own a truck or a trailer, we own a hitch ball and we borrow the rest.

Building the car is more fun. Looking around the pits is more fun. Driving isn't nearly as much fun, but it's the most fun I've had on pavement. Nothing really compares to gravel...

-Dave
]]> eyesoreracing Construction Zone Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:46:17 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33299#msg-33299 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33299#msg-33299 > not to derail this topic any more, but i think the
> guys on this forum could really get into crap can
> racing. cheaper than rally, and all your weird
> knowledge or old crappy cars becomes useful. I
> will try to round up some pics to post in my
> thread of the PIR event.

I'm not entirely sure about the "cheaper" part.

]]> Pete Construction Zone Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:05:38 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33294#msg-33294 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33294#msg-33294
http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/tabid/59/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/1367/The-Best-Engineered-Lemons--2-the-MetroGnome.aspx

More LeMons experience, more testing, much, much worse fabrication, and probably ~400 lbs heavier and ~40 hp stronger.

We're trying to get these two cars pitted together next to us (frankenmiata) and see what happens. Hell, could be a 6-wheeled 3-engine monster by the end!

-Dave

P.S. my apologies to those of you using IE on a PC. I'm sorry both for your terrible choice of computing equipment, and for the fact that this story seems to show up all goofy on your crappy GM software. We've got our best guys on it...

correction: my apologies to those of us with good browsers. now that we "fixed" it for IE, it's lame on everything else. I hate Bill Gates...]]> eyesoreracing Construction Zone Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:49:30 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33279#msg-33279 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33279#msg-33279
Now how bout some video? ]]> pikespeakgtx Construction Zone Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:37:38 -0600 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33243#msg-33243 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,31602,33243#msg-33243
Sounds fantastic with a 2.5" exhaust stubbed onto the bike engines tuned primary pipes. Time for sleep.

]]> Tim Taylor Construction Zone Wed, 18 Nov 2009 03:34:44 -0600