Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car So, I'm slowly prepping my car ('92 Nissan Sentra SE-R) for the Wild West Rally in September. Alignment is one of the things I need to address. Can someone here recommend alignment settings for my type of car. It's a Group 2 car and has a very tight clutch-type LSD (i.e., not much slip). As this will be my first rally, I'm looking for something that's forgiving of newbie mistakes. Thanks in advance. https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41022#msg-41022 Wed, 08 Apr 2026 06:22:37 -0500 Phorum 5.2.15a https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,65014#msg-65014 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,65014#msg-65014
Quote
Cosworth
Quote
john vanlandingham
Personally I like a smidge toe IN so that with normal bush compliance---it always pushes BACK, the effective to goes to about zero....and I have a LOT stiffer bushes than all you boys with struts.

Rear zero or in a smidge for same reason as front. car goes forward, force goes rear on arms and toes goes a smidge out, so you want zero, start IN a red c**t hair

John, on a FWD car the fronts wheels/control arms are pulling forward under power and push back under braking. A bit of toe in prevents it from going toe out under braking for stability.

Paul, depends on where the compliance is relative to the tie-rod.

On a VW, the rear bushing on the control arm is BEHIND the tie-rod which is angled slightly forward at straight-ahead steering...And attaches to the rear of the hub/upright. With this setup, you get toe-IN during braking (wheels move rearward in the wheel-well but tie-rods remain the same length) and toe-out under acceleration.

See picture below--Top of pic is front of car. Rear bushing is the one that deflects, front might as well be solid....

]]> Josh Wimpey Construction Zone Mon, 30 Apr 2012 11:16:26 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,65001#msg-65001 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,65001#msg-65001
Quote
john vanlandingham
Personally I like a smidge toe IN so that with normal bush compliance---it always pushes BACK, the effective to goes to about zero....and I have a LOT stiffer bushes than all you boys with struts.

Rear zero or in a smidge for same reason as front. car goes forward, force goes rear on arms and toes goes a smidge out, so you want zero, start IN a red c**t hair
John, on a FWD car the fronts wheels/control arms are pulling forward under power and push back under braking. A bit of toe in prevents it from going toe out under braking for stability.]]> Cosworth Construction Zone Mon, 30 Apr 2012 03:16:46 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,64961#msg-64961 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,64961#msg-64961
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Tom B
yep .5 degree of camber and 0 toe has been good for me, we destroy the corners of the tires a bit less that way.....reading tires helps alot when setting up camber and toe.

Second Tom's comments.

The ol saw about lots of camber originated back in the day of flexy sidewalls.. Since the arrival of real Michelin rally tires back in maybe 1990 or so, not needed now. so maybe 1/2 degree....
Personally I like a smidge toe IN so that with normal bush compliance---it always pushes BACK, the effective to goes to about zero....and I have a LOT stiffer bushes than all you boys with struts.

Rear zero or in a smidge for same reason as front. car goes forward, force goes rear on arms and toes goes a smidge out, so you want zero, start IN a red c**t hair]]> john vanlandingham Construction Zone Sun, 29 Apr 2012 12:32:54 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,64960#msg-64960 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,64960#msg-64960 Tom B Construction Zone Sun, 29 Apr 2012 12:16:53 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,64952#msg-64952 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,64952#msg-64952 phlat65 Construction Zone Sat, 28 Apr 2012 21:17:40 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,64947#msg-64947 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,64947#msg-64947 new poly/delrin bushings, 0" toe.]]> SteveL Construction Zone Sat, 28 Apr 2012 18:22:54 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,64943#msg-64943 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,64943#msg-64943 SeanP Construction Zone Sat, 28 Apr 2012 14:23:02 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41155#msg-41155 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41155#msg-41155 A1337STI Construction Zone Mon, 16 Aug 2010 16:18:35 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41143#msg-41143 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41143#msg-41143
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A1337STI
Good thread, i think I'm even more confused about my alignment settings now than i have been before.

Wow josh you run less than -1 camber up front, wow.
may i ask what your car weight and spring rates are? :)

I definitely need to find a good test facility / area. Maybe when that place in so cal opens up.


Yes, we try to run less than 1 degree of camber up front but have in the past run upward of 3 degrees due to some bent parts.... Keep the tires FLAT on the gravel so you have grip to accelerate. Even with under 150hp, you will spin tires in a straight line on gravel. The problem is worse with a smaller contact patch from too much camber and it will show on the tires.

Weight
2340lb
~725lb each front wheel
~450lb each rear wheel

Spring rates:
225 lb/in front
165 lb/in rear

We started with higher rates 250 or 275 fronts and 185 or 190 rears and the softer is better for sure.]]> Josh Wimpey Construction Zone Sun, 15 Aug 2010 23:21:30 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41125#msg-41125 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41125#msg-41125
Spring rates were 275 lb front, 225 lb rear, with remove-reservoir Leda's. I raised the front strut towers up by 1.5" and had the struts custom made to suit the longer travel we had. Stock there's only 3.25" to 3.5" of compression travel, and it's hard to keep these cars off the bump stops.

HTH,
Bob]]> Ascona73 Construction Zone Sat, 14 Aug 2010 19:23:10 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41119#msg-41119 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41119#msg-41119
Quote
wildert
"Easy" is very much the keyword...

I had a particular experience the first time I tried go-carting... a friend of mine is a very seasoned race driver in open wheelers, touring cars, carting, etc.
He's very good at making setups, etc.

He took me to try his very oooold cart (he was sorta in-between-racing cars :)), on a track here in Denmark. It was a normal training day, so lots of other people there. The cart was a very old and somewhat worn cart. Frame was over the top for competitive means in the normal sense, rear axle was a 30 mm. job, where 50 mm. was the norm at the time. Untuned engine, might even be nearing time for an overhaul. And last - but most staggeringly - he was on ooold medium compound tires, at a time where EVERYBODY - and I mean EVERYBODY - was on soft compound tires.

First and foremost my friend was - as usual - fastest of anyone on the track at the day. Lots of experienced carters, most with much nicer equipment. Well, what does that say - he could for all you know be the next lost Michael Schumacher.

But when I tried the cart - it was the first time I sat in a proper go-cart, and over the course of a couple of training passes I managed to be able to compete with people in brand new carts, with 1 or 2 years of experience.
I don't consider myself some über Driving God so how could it be that I could compete in a very old go-cart on medium compound tires?
The answer was simple: It was setup to be VERY easy to drive. No struggling - just driving - that meant I had time to LEARN how to DRIVE a go-cart.

Easy is definitely the way to go...

It has always been the goal behind every single word I write on rally.


The problem with this thread, and inter-net in general, and Americans in particular is one string of words looks pretty much like another string of words, and while some people may believe in the Universal brotherhood of all working men and want justice for all, that doesn't mean all opinions are equal, or that all experience is equal so we have some people who may have had some extremely superficial fiddling around time with something in a unstructured and unmeasured way, thinking that means they have an opinion that means something worth sharing and defending.

Second, Americans of all the people in the world I have ever dealt with are the most emotionally immature and childish, and---as is inarguable from our murder statistics---- the least able by factors of 10 or 10 or 50 to control impulses, thus they frenzy at which the unusually stupid will argue and argue and twist when somebody has repeated suggested "Look these settings SEEM to be pretty much a set of settings that goes 'across space and time' since I have seen or asked and find that_____________, and __________, and _ _ _ and __________, and _________ and __________ fwd, rwd, AWD, strut car, double A arm car, front steer, rear steer etc etc all have a SET of SETTINGS about like____________.

Of course mentally retarded people who have attention span limited to three word phrases MISS ALL THE DETAILS after the first 3 words and MISS the words Recommendations, (probably because being immature and child-like their interactions are self-centered, and they want only what THEY want, not a broader interaction more "Whaaaaaaaaaa! Tell me this!") "Proven pretty darn good" and instead want to prove their wiener is GIANT!!!! and that they have some (vital, interesting relevant, important choose some word that they are mistaken about) they are burning to share---and argue about.

All reasonable discussion is thereby broken, fragmented and ultimately ruined when the noise generated by spoiled, immature whining imbeciles who cannot listen and do not comprehend RECOMMENDATIONS, followed by supplementary info that in much of the world, people understand that it is to ENCOURAGE understanding, not be an assertion of absolutes.

And of course anybody who has ever competed a couple of seasons---and paid any attention to what they and OTHER people were doing----would know that quite often people make some surprising good results DESPITE the machinery being all fucked up---to put a fine point: that at the extreme amateur level the shitty driving of the newb is far more of a variable factor than anything do-able to the vehicle....and than even at the World championship level good drivers/riders can "drive around" all sorts of problems.


Of course when one has immature, know-nothing, psychologically insecure people, it's not surprising that they miss the ENTIRE POINT of sharing information which is to help people see a bigger picture and the tiny details (and that is a lot of stuff) ie "Well this is a typical set of specs for almost any car on gravel, BUT you don't have anything adjustable on your POS except fawkin toe so give 'er about maybe that much and fawkin call it good, and don't fret too much, worry about....." and take that as challenge to their self-hood...
Stupid..
And predictable considering who/where/what...]]> john vanlandingham Construction Zone Sat, 14 Aug 2010 10:56:52 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41116#msg-41116 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41116#msg-41116
I had a particular experience the first time I tried go-carting... a friend of mine is a very seasoned race driver in open wheelers, touring cars, carting, etc.
He's very good at making setups, etc.

He took me to try his very oooold cart (he was sorta in-between-racing cars :)), on a track here in Denmark. It was a normal training day, so lots of other people there. The cart was a very old and somewhat worn cart. Frame was over the top for competitive means in the normal sense, rear axle was a 30 mm. job, where 50 mm. was the norm at the time. Untuned engine, might even be nearing time for an overhaul. And last - but most staggeringly - he was on ooold medium compound tires, at a time where EVERYBODY - and I mean EVERYBODY - was on soft compound tires.

First and foremost my friend was - as usual - fastest of anyone on the track at the day. Lots of experienced carters, most with much nicer equipment. Well, what does that say - he could for all you know be the next lost Michael Schumacher.

But when I tried the cart - it was the first time I sat in a proper go-cart, and over the course of a couple of training passes I managed to be able to compete with people in brand new carts, with 1 or 2 years of experience.
I don't consider myself some über Driving God so how could it be that I could compete in a very old go-cart on medium compound tires?
The answer was simple: It was setup to be VERY easy to drive. No struggling - just driving - that meant I had time to LEARN how to DRIVE a go-cart.

Easy is definitely the way to go...]]> wildert Construction Zone Sat, 14 Aug 2010 00:40:26 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41103#msg-41103 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41103#msg-41103
My merkur may be RWD, but I set it up with 1/8 toe in front and rear, and about -.75 camber, and 3.4 degrees caster. It is VERY easy to drive, and very neutral. A few seasoned FWD guys have driven it at speed and both cannot believe how easy it is to drive.

In our third rally (Idaho) we did 8th OA for Saturday, and I watched the in car and it looks like I am out for a Sunday drive. Just easy to drive. ]]> phlat65 Construction Zone Fri, 13 Aug 2010 18:50:26 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41102#msg-41102 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41102#msg-41102
Wow josh you run less than -1 camber up front, wow.
may i ask what your car weight and spring rates are? :)

I definitely need to find a good test facility / area. Maybe when that place in so cal opens up. ]]> A1337STI Construction Zone Fri, 13 Aug 2010 16:52:36 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41100#msg-41100 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41100#msg-41100
When I started I looked at the fast people and copied them till I built a lot of experience and could go my own way.

The question on this thread is what should a new guy do. Josh and I, experienced (3 decades for me, many top times...) and very fast guys in his class said 0 toe.

Here is a little video of me, ask your self as a new driver how stable do you want your car? See 15 seconds in we get a bit loose and need to do some braking as well as hitting bumps all at the same time. This is a car set up for neutral stability with 0 to slightly neg toe. Notice I need to manage the rear end getting loose at that same time I need to brake and set up for the turn. Braking causes the rear end to get light and less stable.





Same thing at 1:13 seconds were we have a fast section into a slight kink left then an off camber hard right down hill. Good times there, do you really want a car that is oversteer happy right there?


]]> derek Construction Zone Fri, 13 Aug 2010 15:30:03 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41096#msg-41096 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41096#msg-41096

Wildert: Yeah, well, he likes you! hahah No, but seriously, I just get really annoyed when I see him spout off shit to people asking for help that is OBVIOUSLY not true. It really bothers me to see people get a person's opinion as fact. IF you notice, I'll preface 90 percent of my advice with, in my experience, I may be wrong but, or something like that. Especially when I'm not 100 percent sure.

And besides, the Ford papers were written by a works team, as were the VW papers. Works teams that saw how the car was handling by a works driver. So when a works driver recommends some settings... I don't see the difference. It's just not published. ]]> Dazed_Driver Construction Zone Fri, 13 Aug 2010 14:29:16 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41095#msg-41095 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41095#msg-41095 -------------------------------------------------------
> I don't see the problem with trying to find
> something that works for the driver. It's not so
> much that the Ford papers are wrong (which I don't
> think) its that other things can be right- when
> your talking a none Ford car.

Well - the point just is: John would most definitely never give you heat over posting stuff from other manufacturers, if it is intent on broadening the debate.
Hell, I just posted VWMS-papers, and you didn't see him flaming me right? So it's not fair to accuse him of shooting everything down.

However, if you state that you're here to start a fight (which you more or less did - though it was a little down the line), you will probably get it - he's not big on diplomacy :-).
The point being that you wanted a fight - and you got it - gotta make up your mind if you wanna have a debate, or a fight club. Both things are readily available depending on what you ask for :-).

As for Damon: Heh - I think you nailed it there... though to be fair, almost none of the US-guys on this board claims that they know everything about rallying. Far from it actually.
I've been coming here for years know, and most people here tend to look at mostly the scandinavians, but also other parts of the world where rallying is much more widespread, for sound advice on how a privateer may get the most bang for the buck.
So while it might sound a bit like american-know-it-all-ness with regards to Wayne, they really are a bunch of guys who are looking outside US borders for inspiration.

oh... and welcome! :-).]]> wildert Construction Zone Fri, 13 Aug 2010 12:58:15 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41093#msg-41093 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41093#msg-41093
One has to seperate what is good for very seasoned vet and a raw noob. Over here on the roads he will be running a very stockish G2 will hit 100mph (not kliks) on most stages at some point. A very neutral setup is the ticket for the first few races at least.

Personal preference, individual car prep, road surfaces, stock geometry all affect what settings work best. I like a car with a short wheelbase and a somewhat softer suspension. I hate 120 mph road and will generally make most guys look silly on twisty downhill stuff. We all have our spots to shine.

To really put suspension settings in perspective watch NASCAR some weekend. I used to crew one a Winston West car years ago. They have all the money and talent in the world and fight for every 10th of a second with settings. Lots of changes to barely eek out a car length on a straight away. Two team mates in identical cars with identical setups will have vastly different laptimes. And nowhere is it easier to see what happens with one small setting that is off. Total failure visable in 2 laps. It is somewhat relevant if you think about it.

The problem with using the old factory stuff from the 70s and 80s is that some much has changed. While it is a good place to start it is no longer gospel. Watching Rally Finnland last weekend had Juha K running again after many year layoff. His comment on camera was how much the suspension and brakes had changed in that period. He noted the car had no great power but handling was the key factor. He was running 7th for much of the weekend and finished 8th I think.

]]> heymagic Construction Zone Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:07:32 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41092#msg-41092 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41092#msg-41092 NoCoast Construction Zone Fri, 13 Aug 2010 10:35:41 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41091#msg-41091 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41091#msg-41091 -------------------------------------------------------
> I would think that the 'obscure Aussie' you guys
> are referring to has probably had just a little
> more experience in his 40 years of competition
> than most posting here.
>
> The reason he never won the Australian Rally
> Championship is because he was busy competing in
> the WRC. When he was not competing in the WRC, he
> was busy running the WRC program for Hyundai in
> the Sthn Hemisphere, which including building the
> cars in his workshop down here in Australia (yes,
> believe it not they were FWD's too).
>
> These cars were very competetive on the world
> stage, and Wayne was equally as competetive
> against his fellow drivers in identical cars,
> Kenneth Ericcson and Alister McRae (a few other
> non-Americans you probably havent heard of
> either).
>
> Add to this two or three DECADES of running as a
> privateer, a works driver for Holden (GMH),
> building his own cars etc.......but you Yanks are
> obviously much smarter than the rest of the world
> and have much more experience, please continue
> ignoring everyone else is doing.

Whoa. Struck a nerve there hey. :) Thanks though for some better background on him. Looking quickly at the links Timm posted all I saw was some guy talking about shit that was way beyond the ability of 99% of drivers to really notice and telling people to set cars up with toe out, which again goes against everything I've ever read, seen, or witnessed in a rally car.

So for you Subaru guys, you know what is adjustable in a Subaru right. Much more than most cars.
In Possum Bournes' biography, which is a great read, he talks about the change from a Group A to WRC spec car and how the ability to fine tune every aspect of the suspension as being the hugest factor/difference. I've seen people who haven't even driven in a rally yet worrying about things like eliminating bump steer so yeah, maybe I'm a little jaded.
And yes, I have heard of both the Swede Kenneth Eriksson and the Scot Alister McRae. I know a few Aussies and Kiwi's too. Helped arrange/find a rental for Andrew Hawkeswood over breakfast with him one year at Pike's Peak when his Evo was having issues getting through customs. Hiked through the deserts of Arizona with the crew of Sam Murray to spectate.
I would bet I am one of the few who has watched many episodes from the APRC and ARC. Last one was Scouts, haven't had a chance to watch Queensland yet though. Does seem that Simon Evans is walking away with it.
PS> If anyone wants the a link to download these, as well as some IRC, CRC, and other vids you can PM me and I'll send you the private link where I have them hosted.]]> NoCoast Construction Zone Fri, 13 Aug 2010 10:34:46 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41090#msg-41090 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41090#msg-41090
It's got upper/lower a-arms, so it's a weee bit different then the strut stuff.

the rear...like Josh said. If it looks bent, it's out of alignment. Throw a rock at it or replace it. your choice.

No idea if that's the right way to approach it. We're replacing the rear axle after NEFR...probably with one that's sleeved with something a little stronger. At that time, I'll likely "put" some toe-in and set camber to 0 with a porta-power and then wait for the next time I bend the shit out of it.]]> Rallyho Construction Zone Fri, 13 Aug 2010 08:14:11 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41089#msg-41089 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41089#msg-41089 -------------------------------------------------------
> After clicking on and reading the links I came to
> the determination that the guy may be called the
> Australian Rally Champion that never was for a
> reason. Too much trying to think shit through,
> too little driving.
>
> I remember one group of guys once at our test
> facility here in Colorado. They'd do a lap, come
> in, change some stuff, do another, repeat until
> they found the ultimate setup. I assumed they
> were timing the laps. Thing is, until you can
> consistently run the exact same time every time
> with zero mistakes all that testing is really just
> determining what feels better to you at that
> moment.
>
> I'm pretty confident that Derek could hop in the
> seat of any 2WD rally car and be right up there
> with the fastest guys in Max Attack so if you want
> an opinion of someone who is proven to be fast on
> US roads against US competition, listen to him.
> Quit worrying about all the piddly bullshit and
> drive. Scrub radius, blah, fucking, blah, blah,
> blah.
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO


I would think that the 'obscure Aussie' you guys are referring to has probably had just a little more experience in his 40 years of competition than most posting here.

The reason he never won the Australian Rally Championship is because he was busy competing in the WRC. When he was not competing in the WRC, he was busy running the WRC program for Hyundai in the Sthn Hemisphere, which including building the cars in his workshop down here in Australia (yes, believe it not they were FWD's too).

These cars were very competetive on the world stage, and Wayne was equally as competetive against his fellow drivers in identical cars, Kenneth Ericcson and Alister McRae (a few other non-Americans you probably havent heard of either).

Add to this two or three DECADES of running as a privateer, a works driver for Holden (GMH), building his own cars etc.......but you Yanks are obviously much smarter than the rest of the world and have much more experience, please continue ignoring everyone else is doing.

]]> damo666 Construction Zone Fri, 13 Aug 2010 06:48:22 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41086#msg-41086 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41086#msg-41086
My suspension setup thoughts were really based on my go karting and mtn biking experience. They might not transfer to rally cars. Although adjusting the rebound, compression, spring rates and tire pressures on the bikes... and caster, toe, and tire pressure on the go karts, I feel "use" to sensing the effects. However, like I said, whether or not that translates to a car, I'm not sure. But that's what I'm used to. So I plan on taking Bell's advice (he used to drive a corolla VERY fast) and leave it there. Although for a Nissan, without these papers, I would experiment. I'd find a road or large gravel area, and test. If all hell went loose, back to stock, and try again, the other way.

I don't see the problem with trying to find something that works for the driver. It's not so much that the Ford papers are wrong (which I don't think) its that other things can be right- when your talking a none Ford car. ]]> Dazed_Driver Construction Zone Fri, 13 Aug 2010 01:19:11 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41085#msg-41085 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41085#msg-41085 > My personal advice? Try toe in. Try toe out. Play
> with caster and camber. Play with rear toe in and
> camber. Change one thing at a time, maybe starting
> with everything neutral. When you find a setting
> you like, leave it alone. Don't change it again.
> As Grant said, just drive. Take time to build your
> car right, set it up, and then just leave it. No
> need to be fucking with settings all the time.
> Find one, and just adjust to that setting (so
> right it down!) when you need to
> correct/replace/unbend/etc. Find what works for

That is a very bad idea... At least if you have no to little experience, and especially if you try it between rallies, on different days, etc.

Just playing with tyre pressure between days mixes things up. Think about what messing about with alignment settings for an un-experienced guy will do. It'll be confusing at best...

I've been rallying for the better part of 10 years. About seven of these in the current Golf. I do 7-10 events a year, so I consider myself fairly experienced. Yet, I haven't - and won't be for the foreseeable future - been changing settings between every event to see what I liked. Not that I haven't been tweaking over the years, but it has been slow - very slow - to really be able rto make out the difference in alignment instead of just the stages, surfaces, changing weather, tires, etc.

And what did I start out with? Stock setup with the addition of some more camber (necessity for tarmac on street tires - class rules).
I have fiddled with other settings, and made changes. But the point is I took at least 4-5 events (some times years) between it to make damn sure that it was the car that needed changing.
All along my guide has been stuff like VW motorsports papers like the ones I linked to. It's about the same as John's Ford papers, and what's not to like? They ARE proven fast... they were doing stuff way faster than anyone of us in here, 10-15 years ago...

It sounds like the dislike of these papers really matches my stereotype about Americans, that it's worth more to try it yourself and fail miserably, than to listen to someone who has a proven track record and do maybe mediocre or... Gasp... GOOD?

Sorry to come over as really old world Yurupean, but I don't see the point against the Ford papers? Will you deny that they are proven (as are VW stuff etc.)? I not, why kill the messenger (John)?
]]> wildert Construction Zone Fri, 13 Aug 2010 01:08:44 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41082#msg-41082 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41082#msg-41082 Sorry.]]> Carl S Construction Zone Thu, 12 Aug 2010 22:43:20 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41081#msg-41081 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41081#msg-41081 -------------------------------------------------------
> Dazed_Driver Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Show me these Top 10 national stage
> > times.
> >
>
> On the advice of people with recent WRC experience
> I've set alignments to 2mm in front, 1mm in back,
> 1ish* neg camber all over, and like 4* caster on a
> car that ran consistently in RA's top 10 (as high
> as 3rd) within the last 2 years.


Carl is that 2mm "IN" in the front and 1mm "IN" in the back?

You never said whichaway in or aus?]]> pikespeakgtx Construction Zone Thu, 12 Aug 2010 22:11:51 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41080#msg-41080 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41080#msg-41080
FRONT:
Get it as close to 0-toe as possible
Get it to less than 1-degree of negative camber Any more than that and you just wear out the inside of the tires badly. the crown of the road is already working against you putting down poser on the straights.

With our alignment tools (Carpenter's square, tape measure, and calculator, anything within 1/16" of zero toe and we call it good. The compliance in the bushings is way more than the 1/16" or closer target we shoot for.

Toe out does indeed suck.
Too much camber also means lots of wheel spin and tire wear coming out onto the straights.



REAR:
Uh.... if you can't see that it is out (aka bent) without a tape measure, leave it alone...
Once bent, replace beam or stubs or both...


]]> Josh Wimpey Construction Zone Thu, 12 Aug 2010 21:01:50 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41079#msg-41079 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41079#msg-41079
Blah blah blah whaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!

-------------------------------------------------------
>I would ask, there was always a
> reoccurring theme. Ford. I dont know, let's check
> a book. It was as if nothing anyone had ever done
> unless there was a blue oval on their hood meant
> anything. Anything that differed or was new was
> wrong and I was stupid for thinking it.


The proof that you are in fact grossly stupid is when I was busy working, you called and I asked my wife to see if it was important, you sadi it WAS important so she passed the phone to me to hear you ask about "Should i get carbon fiber hood scoops?"

This when the car was an empty roller shell then 5 years from completion.

But you again show you mental migetry when you, as other idiots have also done, think the refereal to Ford is some sort of DOGMA (look it up, I know your vocabulary is typical punk, therefore appallingly ignorant) when the purpose of referring to the very convenient Ford books is to establish a PROVEN, DOCUMENTED answer to, to anybody with an ounce of brains, work as a counterbalance to the "blind leading the Blind" situation where never-done-nothing asswipes advise other in what they "think".

Man you are dumb in a specially worrisome way....



There was
> only one way of doing everything.

There's TONS of ways, just that a LOT of them have been tried by every stupid newb who thinks they're smart, and if you weren't a particularly stupid PERSON, then you'd understand that...


blah blah
banned, proving that this
> really is the JVL club.

What an idiot
>
> Feisty Peacock?
>
>


]]> john vanlandingham Construction Zone Thu, 12 Aug 2010 20:57:30 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41078#msg-41078 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41078#msg-41078 -------------------------------------------------------
> Show me these Top 10 national stage
> times.
>

On the advice of people with recent WRC experience I've set alignments to 2mm in front, 1mm in back, 1ish* neg camber all over, and like 4* caster on a car that ran consistently in RA's top 10 (as high as 3rd) within the last 2 years.]]> Carl S Construction Zone Thu, 12 Aug 2010 20:43:44 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41077#msg-41077 Re: Recommended Alignment Settings for a FWD Car https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41022,41077#msg-41077
Until you stop acting like a pompous ass, I will strive to point out every flaw you'll ever say. And it's not like I hardly know you. I use to hang out there a lot. I should have bought your shit and left, (hell, I should have just bought the DMS setup and been done with it) but there is something seductive about a heap of parts from rare rally cars from a time long past. The stories were entertaining. But the more I listened to the answers to things I would ask, there was always a reoccurring theme. Ford. I dont know, let's check a book. It was as if nothing anyone had ever done unless there was a blue oval on their hood meant anything. Anything that differed or was new was wrong and I was stupid for thinking it. There was only one way of doing everything.

You had my respect, and you lost it. You'll probably never get it back. I just wish I had lost it sooner.


So say what you want about me, I do not care. But the more you make shit up and portray it as fact, I'm going to go off and find evidence of you blowing smoke out of your ass, and post it up. It will get old, it will get tiring, and there's an easy way to stop it all. Actually, there are two. I very likely could be banned, proving that this really is the JVL club. ]]> Dazed_Driver Construction Zone Thu, 12 Aug 2010 18:25:27 -0500