Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet

Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet Hi out there. I grew up and live in E. Washington out by Moses Lake. I am re-re-begining a project that I originally started and aborted 10 years ago. I grew up with Toyota Starlets. My parents first brand-new car was a 1982 Toyota Starlet that served as the family car for 650,000 miles, before the engine and trans were swapped into a younger body (and has since racked up another 400,000 miles with only a carb rebuild as major maintenance). However, I am planning to use this: [url=http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l2/bw_krupp/DSC00013.jpg]Starlet Link[/url] It was my delivery car when I was going to college that I bought for $142. I have 6 very worn Starlets. Between them I have enough parts for one, maybe two, factory fresh cars (don't ask for parts, at least not yet, I'll post up for sale as I get around to it). I don't have a lot of money to spend on this. I have finally nearly sort of wrapped up my Merkur XR4Ti build (just a street car with goodies slapped on and a lot of maintenance finally done). So I have some time available (never enough) and can finally sell the Geo as I have the Merk as a backup car again. So I want to do a very simple build. I do have a 90hp K series Starlet engine already, but I want to either go the route found here: [url=http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,40154,page=1]New Option for RWD Rally Cars[/url] or the tried and true 4AGE swap. (I've also had grand delusions of a 3.4L V8 SHO swap, and while the engine cost of all three swaps is close, at least the 4AGE and Busa engine have been done). Then a roll cage, natch, and a limited suspension build. I don't want to go crazy, I want to retain as much of the stock car as I can for simplicity, and whatever is replaced needs to be done on the cheap (excepting where safety is concerned). I don't care about winning rallies. I just want something that can be entered so I can *legally* flog the roads that have been driving since I was kid anyways. And have something that can serve as an emergency backup car to get the groceries. Other cars I have available to consider building (though my heart is set on the Starlet): 1972 Triumph TR6 (was fully built as a rally car back in the early 70s by my uncle and won several events, developed a low oil pressure reading on the gauge and was parked without ever investigating the cause...25 years ago, needs engine rebuild and new interior), 1982 Fiat X1/9 Bertone (rough condition, but just begging for an engine swap), 1993 Geo Metro (for the giggle factor), 1992 Toyota Paseo (I really like this car, handles great, especially in slippery conditions, shares the platform of the later Toyota Starlet, so theres actually parts available), 1987 Merkur XR4Ti (as much as this is probably the best of the bunch to build, I question its complete lack of reliability). Anyways, thats what I want to do. Thoughts, comments, death threats, anything? Hopefully this winter I can get going when theres space available in the new shop. Till then just trying to get my thoughts organized so I don't waste money like I did on the Merkur (though I at least got most of it back reselling). Cheers https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41458#msg-41458 Sat, 04 Apr 2026 18:13:36 -0500 Phorum 5.2.15a https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41934#msg-41934 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41934#msg-41934

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bw_krupp

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NoCoast
Really, though, what I would do is get the car running kinda reliably, stock engine or 4AGE, and weld the stock diff). Get a cage and seats and such in it and go do one of the cheap events out there. Doo Wops or Mt Hood come to mind. Once you have an event done you'll probably find yourself with an INSANE amount of motivation.

Anytime, like now.]]> john vanlandingham Construction Zone Thu, 16 Sep 2010 18:07:59 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41929#msg-41929 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41929#msg-41929

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NoCoast
Really, though, what I would do is get the car running kinda reliably, stock engine or 4AGE, and weld the stock diff). Get a cage and seats and such in it and go do one of the cheap events out there. Doo Wops or Mt Hood come to mind. Once you have an event done you'll probably find yourself with an INSANE amount of motivation.

Thats the plan...

At the moment...one step forward two steps back, on my daily drivers. Love old cars...

John, is there a bad time to call? I am usually awake and work best during the hours every sane person is asleep.]]> bw_krupp Construction Zone Thu, 16 Sep 2010 16:23:39 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41594#msg-41594 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41594#msg-41594
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/1923435018.html]]> hoche Construction Zone Thu, 02 Sep 2010 03:30:35 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41593#msg-41593 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41593#msg-41593
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/1924653379.html]]> hoche Construction Zone Thu, 02 Sep 2010 03:28:48 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41574#msg-41574 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41574#msg-41574
Serious though Brent, being a Merkur owner, just compare the front suspensions between the two. Imagine that you have a compression strut instead of the anti-roll bar.
Look at the front right of the Merkur with a mirror and imagine it on the front left of the Toyota. Rough measuring has the length needed for compression strut and control arm being around 1/2" difference. Seriously, half an inch. Shit, Merkur stock stuff with just compression struts could probably work as long as you tack the Merkur strut top and check what kinda camber your getting before you go too crazy.
Having the spindle seperate from the strut is a very good thing. Not to mention there is affordable big brakes and struts for rallying already available for the Merkur setup. The PCD difference is a pain, but manageable. Change the rears to 4X108 as well and you can run the Merkur wheels and the gravel big brake kit in the rear as well.

Really, though, what I would do is get the car running kinda reliably, stock engine or 4AGE, and weld the stock diff). Get a cage and seats and such in it and go do one of the cheap events out there. Doo Wops or Mt Hood come to mind. Once you have an event done you'll probably find yourself with an INSANE amount of motivation.]]> NoCoast Construction Zone Tue, 31 Aug 2010 20:04:09 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41573#msg-41573 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41573#msg-41573

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bw_krupp
I would like to thank everyone for their input so far. I may be stubborn, but I appreciate any advice and help on the way.

In about 6 weeks, I will know a lot more as thats the earliest I can get the car in the shop and up in the air. I've sort of inherited my grandfathers old shop but have to clean it out first.

Anyways, I'm starting to get excited at least

I have to go drill holes and mill slots in a buncha Nissan SR20 Sentra ears for the struts, I'll get back to you..

here's a big serious no bullshit suggestion cause I do have a soft spot for the Starlet, I just presume that eventually, everybody starts getting what I call "the perv twitch", the desire to go faster or be more competitive.

The best way to make that short lil' sonny beach work good is to find a way to dial in 4-5 degrees of castor.
Then the car will be stable enough
See the long wheelbase (but always with a quick rack) thing is based on the assumption that folks starting out will be using stock-ish or warmed over stock-ish control arms and junk.
But now with William, Sean and I all working together on ideas and materials and junk-and-stuff, the average dood, like you, may have a very viable way to do adjustable---rally strength bottom arms..which will allow castor adjustment.

That one thing is really vital.

Second: any size tire you can routinely get is the right size, any size you have potenial for scoring cheap wheels, you can compensate at the back axle for 14 " or 15"
Japanese OEM alloys are not strong AND they break so get something strong..
What is the wheel ET for the bugger?

A just ever so slightly warmed up 4AGE ought to be enough fun to begin with, fianl drive and relaiblity are way up the list..

One thing you oughtta think of is what front knuckle.
Corolla is just barely bigger than junk, if you're going to have a funny bottom arm, why not attach that to a front spindle/knuckle that is substantially stronger?
The shits old now and I have seen Japonaise spindles shear off right in front of me, YIKES!!!
Don't OBSESS on weight, just don't be stupid with regard to gauge of materials....

More later, i'm done with my tea..gotta go make suspension for Japonaise stuff---and a Bavarian Maggot Wagon too!

I've said my words, and get some castor in the Starlet and it'll be fine..]]> john vanlandingham Construction Zone Tue, 31 Aug 2010 19:47:42 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41571#msg-41571 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41571#msg-41571
Most popular rally tire sizes are in the 14" and 15" sizes. Remember your brake stuff is limited by what you can fit in the wheel.

Build it dude, have some fun with it, if you want more in the future then move on. I think a well built car will be WAY faster than you for quite some time. Don't get all hung up on power, MANY very fast people in 125 hp cars.

Don't re-invent the wheel, get the car strong enough to be reliable, make modifications to make it stronger or easier to work on 1st, then go for performance next. Get some experience, and improve the car as you improve.

My car I built to be reliable, and strong. Entered 3 rallies so far, and finished 3 rallies. I am getting much better at the driving part, but am still WAY below the maximum performance of my car.]]> phlat65 Construction Zone Tue, 31 Aug 2010 19:26:05 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41569#msg-41569 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41569#msg-41569
I think you can use whatever transmisison/transaxle you want, as long as the engine remains toyota. How about a 1uz-fe 4.0L v8? ;) Depending on your power goals, I'd look beyond the 4AGE if you're looking for lots of reliable power. That said, the 4AGE in my corolla spends nearly all of its time between 4000 and 8000rpm, and hasn't given me any problems.

ideal tire size depends on your car's gearing/power/weight.

That's all that I think I know the answer to...

--sarge]]> SgtRauksauff Construction Zone Tue, 31 Aug 2010 19:05:10 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41567#msg-41567 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41567#msg-41567

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john vanlandingham
So if you'rebound and detirmined toforever been satisfied driving just a little squirelly for 2-3 turns, and will never try to be competitive, build the Starlet.

Pretty much. If I was only going to ever build one car, it would be the Merkur, and it wouldn't be built for rallying on loose stuff.

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Mark
no offense, but that kind of thinking is what keeps people from finishing "projects". like a self fulfilling prophecy.

It may be a little self fulfilling, but until I get going I'm not sure how committed I'm going to be. I'm just starting out. I probably won't decide for myself till I get the car up in the air and take a look at the nitty gritty.

...I don't think I got to the right start here. I don't mean to come on all defensive or anything. But to me, being talked out of using the Starlet is being talked out of attempting stage rally at all. And in response to the engine swap, that is a separate issue as I've always wanted to stuff more power into a starlet, and would do that irregardless of attempting rallying at all. So why not start there. That will at least give me an immediate smile and keep me motivated.

So, now, after minor bickering is settled, a few questions.

How is the minimum weight calculated for the NASA class 2wd light? I can get the weight of the Starlet down below 1300 lbs (I know because I've already done it with the stock engine). If I use the busa engine the calculated displacement would be 1608cc and the 4age would be 1920cc. Or the stock engine 1024cc (pushrod). As a matter of personal preference, I would like to run as light as I can, and I read the rules and I didn't know if it used the same chart as Open AWD Light.

Am I allowed to run the transmission at the rear? I would certainly not do this as it is in contradiction of keeping it simple, just speculating in my head. But if I was to run an Audi transaxle at the rear of the car and keep the engine at the front, is this allowed?

Anyone heard anything good/bad about technotoytuning? They sell camber/caster plates and adapters to use AE86 fronts on the starlets. I'm always highly skeptical of any company, but if they are decent it would save some time on the front suspension (at least until it breaks from being made of inferior materials).

What size tires/wheels are "ideal"? This is a more immediate question as my dad's friend is going to be throwing away a pile of wheels and will let me sort through them first. I wouldn't get too excited, but hopefully I can find something bigger than the 13x4.5s that are on the car at the moment. I know I can't go too wild on tire sizes without cutting the fenders.

What should I do for the cage? Not first step/last step, but where should I go, who should I talk to? And how much should I start setting aside?

In about 6 weeks, I will know a lot more as thats the earliest I can get the car in the shop and up in the air. I've sort of inherited my grandfathers old shop but have to clean it out first.

Anyways, I'm starting to get excited at least]]> bw_krupp Construction Zone Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:35:30 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41564#msg-41564 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41564#msg-41564
Since the OP has a lifetime supply of Starlets and they can be made to go fast without huge effort AND they seem to work in Finland , it only makes sense for him to explore that route. Now if he didn't have those resources then yes the Volvo is likely the best option.]]> heymagic Construction Zone Tue, 31 Aug 2010 17:51:57 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41547#msg-41547 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41547#msg-41547 Dazed_Driver Construction Zone Mon, 30 Aug 2010 23:49:59 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41546#msg-41546 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41546#msg-41546

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bw_krupp
I understand what you are saying, but I'm also trying to be realistic in that I want to have a point-of-no-return in the build where I can stop there and have a street car. Or decide to continue and keep going.

no offense, but that kind of thinking is what keeps people from finishing "projects". like a self fulfilling prophecy.

figure out what your budget is and if you can afford to race. and by "if you can" i mean, do you want to do one event, several dozen over the course of years, or tow around the country to win a championship?

once you have that figured out, then start on the build.

and grant has it right on the money too. safety, suspension/brakes, fancy bits. and notice that he didn't say motor in there? that's because a good driver can overcome it with determination and skill. hell, i would go so far as to say before fancy bits you should go do more events instead.

if you get to wrapped up in your "project", you'll never get it done or when you crash (and it will happen) you'll be all pissed since your fancy shit's all broke.]]> Mark Construction Zone Mon, 30 Aug 2010 23:13:03 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41545#msg-41545 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41545#msg-41545

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heymagic
Grant..and others...a log book is a history of the car and evidence that is was compliant at the time of issue. Nothing more. NASA accepts other logbooks with their rules, RA accepts other logbooks but the car mujst meet RA safety specs. As RA doesn't allow nonfamily engine swaps who is to say. It would get forwarded to the event stewards for review. Hardly worth taking a chance on. Pretty much every manufacturer has an engine that can be made to go fast.

On a local basis I would allow such a car and only worry that another competitor who got beaten by said car would protest.

As to the wheel base issue, I would much rather have a car that "danced" than a limo. Not everyone has the same preferences. My best results were in the RX-7 and the Datsun 210...and they were pretty good results btw.

Yesn Gebne but a) we were in the woods and B) virtually everybody else had short things with equally questionable steering boxes etc...

and c) We were in the woods and we didn't have 24 out of 28 guys exceeding 80 mph average since the roads in the woods ocassionally had turns.. and d) OBVIOUSLY taste is a factor, but there is really no argum,ent that at HIGH SPEEDS ---which the current crowd is obsessed with----that a longer car reacts "calmer" at at high speeds, calm is whats needed. and D+ when have seen that even in the woods of Western WA and OR that the length of even the limo like hideous, ghastly 740s is not that big of an impediment to top placings, and just recently the absurdley overpowered 240 of Lane winning....

Sure taste matters, but "Horses for Courses" .]]> john vanlandingham Construction Zone Mon, 30 Aug 2010 21:25:18 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41543#msg-41543 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41543#msg-41543
On a local basis I would allow such a car and only worry that another competitor who got beaten by said car would protest.

As to the wheel base issue, I would much rather have a car that "danced" than a limo. Not everyone has the same preferences. My best results were in the RX-7 and the Datsun 210...and they were pretty good results btw.]]> heymagic Construction Zone Mon, 30 Aug 2010 21:05:38 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41539#msg-41539 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41539#msg-41539

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bw_krupp

I have a surplus of Starlet parts, so until I get to the point where I'm breaking them, its the cheapest starting point. I like the way the Starlet handles, more so even than the Merkur. Its not as fast, but it is more responsive. If I can find a cheap Volvo I might think about it. But finding a Volvo, at all, isn't that easy over here.

There's a BIG difference between what "feels" good playing around at slow speed on an open road with a stockish street car vs another stockish street car.

But you here are thinking about building a stage rally car and maybe even entering rally.

Look at the amount I stress wheelbase, and how much I push Xartties and Volvos TURBO cars.
There's reasons.
At the higher average speeds that the wide, smooth, straightish North American roads allow---or, if youre not going to get left miles behind, we could say demand, tyhe wheelbase at 102.7" for the Xratty and 104" for the 240 Volvo is a distinct advantage. The car being STABLE---until you turn the wheel----iswhat you want, wether you undersand it now---or only understand that when you build a short, nimble--in fact twitchy Starlet----which is blindingly terrifying to drive at 85mph to 110.

Further, with just a few extremely simple external bolt-ons you can have the amount of power delivered the way you can best use it and ENOUGH power from a stock motor, which of course costs nothing vs a 175 bhp 4AGE which would cost a lot--and which would either be low powered or if it makes any good peak HP will need a close ratio box to keep it sustained.....another massive expense.

You're in the PNW Xratty community, you know that there's excess bodies laying around for 100 bucks and if the one you have ain't reliable that's because somebody has kept up maintenance, not from some fundamental flaw.

So if you'rebound and detirmined toforever been satisfied driving just a little squirelly for 2-3 turns, and will never try to be competitive, build the Starlet.
But the trend in the roads chosen for Special Stages is against that car, and drastically and clearly points to longer cars.]]> john vanlandingham Construction Zone Mon, 30 Aug 2010 20:15:00 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41536#msg-41536 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41536#msg-41536

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But finding a Volvo, at all, isn't that easy over here.

lol. Wait till John get's a load of this.]]> pikespeakgtx Construction Zone Mon, 30 Aug 2010 18:35:15 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41534#msg-41534 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41534#msg-41534

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NoCoast
But, are you building to sell it eventually?

Not as such, but I want to have that option available. Ie, get to a point where I make that decision. As a running Starlet with ~150hp will definitely sell for lot more around here than a stock Starlet of any condition. I might even make money at that point.

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Then there's some of the basic stuff dealing with shell prep. If you have a shell mostly stripped with little rust, that'd be a great starting point.

I do, more or less.

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A Merkur is still an easier car to start with in my opinion. A Volvo is still the best platform (for RWD) for privateers as they were made in such massive quantities for so many years that their parts supply should be less limited. A Starlet is still the coolest though.

I have a surplus of Starlet parts, so until I get to the point where I'm breaking them, its the cheapest starting point. I like the way the Starlet handles, more so even than the Merkur. Its not as fast, but it is more responsive. If I can find a cheap Volvo I might think about it. But finding a Volvo, at all, isn't that easy over here.]]> bw_krupp Construction Zone Mon, 30 Aug 2010 18:28:22 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41531#msg-41531 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41531#msg-41531 Cage is the largest time and money expense. Getting it out of the way first could help motivate to get onto stage.
It's also the one expense that you pretty much never recoup. I'd say nearly 0% of the cage expense is a factor in selling price. Whereas all the rest of the stuff adds to future selling price.
But, are you building to sell it eventually?

Then there's some of the basic stuff dealing with shell prep. If you have a shell mostly stripped with little rust, that'd be a great starting point.

A Merkur is still an easier car to start with in my opinion. A Volvo is still the best platform (for RWD) for privateers as they were made in such massive quantities for so many years that their parts supply should be less limited. A Starlet is still the coolest though.]]> NoCoast Construction Zone Mon, 30 Aug 2010 17:41:20 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41528#msg-41528 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41528#msg-41528
Any decent cage builders in PNW? I'm pretty much located in Moses Lake. I hesitate to ask as I don't my eyes to bulge out too huge, but what am I looking at for cost? IF I can get coordination together to get the car trailered somewhere, I will do that step first (well second, prep it for cage first).]]> bw_krupp Construction Zone Mon, 30 Aug 2010 16:22:44 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41522#msg-41522 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41522#msg-41522
Couldn't a Starlet-busa still run in Open class in RA events? Or ask for a waiver or something.

Give up on the idea of using a kit for any other car in a car it's not built for. You can ask John Cirisan how smart that is and how costly that can be.

You're numbers are all messed up. The order of importance should be:
1) Roll cage, 2) Front suspension 3) rear suspension, diff, axle, 4 link and final drive 4) brakes, also goes along with number 2/3 really since they're all inter-related, 4) gearbox/ratios 5) reliability]]> NoCoast Construction Zone Mon, 30 Aug 2010 13:29:31 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41519#msg-41519 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41519#msg-41519 http://rally-america.com/rules.php and it will run all events. Olympus, Oregon Trail and DooWops are currently RA. Wild West, Idaho and Mt.Hood are currently NRS. Wild West and DooWops have switched back and forth in the past.

Wild West is in danger of being canceled due to lack of entries, Mt.Hood may have an issue with road permissions in the future. So you never know from year to year Who is on first...you really don't want to be the guy caught out with a car that won't be accepted at an event and can't be sold. Even the most budget rally build is a very large investment in time and money.]]> heymagic Construction Zone Mon, 30 Aug 2010 10:43:23 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41516#msg-41516 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41516#msg-41516 http://www.nasarallysport.com/main/rules]]> bw_krupp Construction Zone Mon, 30 Aug 2010 02:35:02 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41515#msg-41515 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41515#msg-41515 heymagic Construction Zone Sun, 29 Aug 2010 23:50:21 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41512#msg-41512 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41512#msg-41512

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Dazed_Driver
Starlet is a pain in the ass to find parts for.

Like I stated, I have 6 to scour parts off of. And I'm not looking for a perfect condition show car in the end. I just want it strong enough that when (not if) I run into stuff it keeps going. Which is another reason for the Starlet. I have done some incredible non-intelligent things with them and they just keep going. The only thing I'm lacking ATM is windshields. I only have two uncracked ones. And all body panels are dinged up a little bit, but some elbow grease should tidy them up enough.

So the way that I initially see it, there will be 5 areas to tackle on this: 1) engine/trans swap, 2) rear end swap, 3) roll cage, 4) front suspension, 5) misc body. This also says to me that if I tackle this in order, after 1 and 2 are complete, I can always just stop there and have a street car or have another car for sale. 3-5 will be much more involved and tackling areas I haven't worked on before, but should have good results.

1) 4AGE is most likely. As I mentioned earlier, I'm interested in the Hayabusa swap (admittedly mostly for the giggle factor) depending on how much that ends up costing. If weight saving isn't an issue with entry into rallying (I seriously need an idiots guide to the rules), I can probably run the 4KU I have as the one Starlet currently weighs 1350 lbs (and thats before lightening the glass or anything drastic). I also have available to me a heavily modified 20R that (supposedly) put out over 250 hp n/a when it was pulled from a wrecked Celica (my dad's friend RIP). I know that I can get a 20V black top 4AGE and all electrics for it for under $1000, which is almost the price of a used busa engine. I can always of course, run with the 4KU and come back to this later.

2) Janvav mentioned to me the Dana 30 out of a volvo. I had thought originally to use whatever met the following: same bolt pattern as front wheels, LSD, disc brakes, cut and modify to fit. I have a spare rear end out of an 88 Turbo Coupe lying around, so if that can work no money spent.

3) Roll Cage. Last time I looked, there were no cages specific to the Starlet for sale, but there was one for a Datsun that fit. Obviously a custom made tricked out cage is "best" but for simplicity I would rather go with a weld-in kit. I want to get it done, not pursue diminishing returns.

4) How easy is it to stuff in the Subbie or Merk fronts? I've always liked the basic suspension of the Starlets, and the brakes, but obviously that is with 59 hp, not 3 times that on rough roads. I want to keep it simple. For suspension, I would rather spend X amount to get 90% there rather than spend XXXX amount to get 95% there. This is the area where my mind is least made up, and probably the area where I not only would need the most help, but is the area of biggest improvement in the performance of the car.

5) Welding is cheap. I would like to weld in as much reinforcement as is practical and allowable. I want to fab up a cheap and dirty undertray, toe hooks, etc. This part of the build will probably drive me nuts, but won't cost that much thankfully.

The junkyards around here are crap. The nearest halfway decent one is the pull-and-save by Spaldings in Spokane. I haven't been to Seattle in a long time, but its still (too) long a drive. So unless I'm lucky, its ebay, craigslist and forum purchases from here on in.

I'm just trying to get it to the start line, nothing too complex ("yet", though knowing myself it will get complex in no time). I don't care if its not competitive as long as its fun, reliable(ish), and cheap. I don't care if its rust brown with crinkles on every panel as long as it brings a smile to my face. Though obviously I would give it more care than that. Mind you, I am not the most capable person on the planet. I am a fast learner but I was never "taught" any of this growing up so I'm just learning in my spare time. I finally have use of a shop long term (with a pit no less), so I can get started here in a month or so. Though I am first raising the Merk in the air to redo the suspension. And my unreliability with the Merk is entirely 50% electrical and 50% hoses (vacuum and coolant) exploding. Its never left me completely stranded, but I just don't trust it enough to drive it hard for more than a couple minutes at a time.

Anyways, ramble over. Thats my thoughts at the moment. Cheers]]> bw_krupp Construction Zone Sun, 29 Aug 2010 20:31:14 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41494#msg-41494 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41494#msg-41494

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Dazed_Driver
Body panels, at least around here, from what I've seen seem to be pretty rare/expensive for starlets. Which is kind of an important consideration... well, unless he's never gonna crash.

That's true for any 70's to 80's Toyota. They are getting to be a pretty rare find in junkyards nowadays.]]> noypiesky Construction Zone Fri, 27 Aug 2010 17:07:34 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41491#msg-41491 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41491#msg-41491
I used a have a 82 Starlet...

From what I found when I owned mine was if you needed parts the price was high, and when you didn't NEED them you could fill your backyard with spare cars and parts for the price of the fender you bought when you needed it.

The clean starlets would bring good money, but mine had 270Kish miles and had been on the coast most of it's life. It had a lot of rust.

If you're going to build a starlet, find a nice rust free shell... and go with that. As Grant said, you're pretty much not going to keep anything stock except the body anyway.

I'm really a huge fan of the bugeyes.

81-82's

83-84's

]]> pikespeakgtx Construction Zone Fri, 27 Aug 2010 14:50:10 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41473#msg-41473 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41473#msg-41473 Dazed_Driver Construction Zone Thu, 26 Aug 2010 22:06:25 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41471#msg-41471 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41471#msg-41471

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Dazed_Driver
Starlet is a pain in the ass to find parts for.

What the hell is with your Gen-Y disaffected youth passive aggressive trolling tonight:S]]> Tim Taylor Construction Zone Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:44:35 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41470#msg-41470 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41470#msg-41470

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Dazed_Driver
Starlet is a pain in the ass to find parts for.

What kind of parts are you looking for?
Like I said, a simple adjustable control arm and you can run Merkur uprights, struts, and front brakes. Fuck it, may as well convert to Subaru top mounts while your at it. Four link the rear and run whatever rear end you want. Engines, well, you're not likely to run the 59 hp stock engine and 4AGE and T50 gearboxes are a dime a dozen. Go to a fuel cell, stand alone engine management and the only things left are body panels, windshield glass, and headlights and taillights. Seeing as there are three nice looking Starlets within 1000 miles of me there not that bad really. You just have to get a little pervish about it and start collecting good cars and maybe a few spare windshields.
Of course, a Merkur is still easier to build and has more than enough power right out of the box. Once you delete all the electronic bullshit in a Merkur you'll find they're quite reliable. Right Sean? Or Colin McLeery, who's not around but did what like 29 straight rallies with no DNFs before he ??graded to the 5.0 V8 engine. The ?? is because some consider that an upgrade, I consider it a downgrade, but okay. :)]]> NoCoast Construction Zone Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:43:43 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41468#msg-41468 Re: Introductions - 82 Toyota Starlet https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,41458,41468#msg-41468 Carl S Construction Zone Thu, 26 Aug 2010 21:32:02 -0500