Totally Tubular Honda part So hear is what i have been working on this last few days. A tubular front sub frame for Honda's, This will be the hardest one off projects to date and on a time crunch hope it works as good as its looking. The arms sticking back and top 4 mounts are for the skid plate and mounts to the frame rails. [IMG]http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll25/SteelSolutions/Subaru/2011-05-22_16-05-00_476.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll25/SteelSolutions/Subaru/2011-05-22_16-05-18_454.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll25/SteelSolutions/Subaru/2011-05-22_21-17-49_405.jpg[/IMG] https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49587#msg-49587 Wed, 08 Jul 2026 23:37:08 -0500 Phorum 5.2.15a https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,107918#msg-107918 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,107918#msg-107918
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.569920173089525.1073741836.179072448840968&type=3#!/media/set/?set=a.569920173089525.1073741836.179072448840968&type=3

Probably built for drag racing due to extreme lack of support. For rally I'd still like some more triangulation and I see no rear mounts for the lower control arms, no sway bar mounts, that engine mount is very minimal as well.

When I was at the West Michigan Honda Meet a few weeks ago, I had a discussion with the owner of Hasport about subframe construction and rally builds. But for the most part he said that subframe builds do get driven from the drag guys as the premiere Honda racing (Honda Challenge) does not allow tubular sub-frame or suspension components, so nobody really cares about fabricating them.]]> BillyElliot Construction Zone Tue, 11 Aug 2015 09:41:22 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49816#msg-49816 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49816#msg-49816 krisdahl Construction Zone Mon, 30 May 2011 13:44:02 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49794#msg-49794 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49794#msg-49794
It has been a long week for sure. Apart from working my regular job, I have put in nearly 40 hours into the Honda since it arrived. LOTS of things to fix/repair.]]> phlat65 Construction Zone Sat, 28 May 2011 01:05:09 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49762#msg-49762 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49762#msg-49762
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So I don't think the original reason for going with this tubular subframe ever got mentioned. We were have issues with deformation of the rear motor mount. The engine was moving hard enough to rip the sheet metal on the subframe under the rear engine mount. When purchased the car had solid engine mounts. After trashing the mounts and brackets once we reinforced the brackets and went with poly for the mounts. This made things better and got us through the last 3 or 4 rallies but we had rear mount failure and a torn subframe at OTR.

Hope this cures it once and for all and also brings the possibility of the solid mounts back into the picture
.

I'd keep the poly if there was any way to do that.

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Huge thanks to William and Sean, two great NW rally folk, for getting all this done on a huge time crunch.

Yes, I think we're lucky here in the PNW with the skills set we have readily available.
Got the car back?
(If so good! Time for some Volvo and Xratty work for those boys!)]]> john vanlandingham Construction Zone Fri, 27 May 2011 11:15:21 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49761#msg-49761 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49761#msg-49761
Hope this cures it once and for all and also brings the possibility of the solid mounts back into the picture.

Huge thanks to William and Sean, two great NW rally folk, for getting all this done on a huge time crunch.]]> slidewayswrx Construction Zone Fri, 27 May 2011 10:47:36 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49734#msg-49734 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49734#msg-49734 ]]> RallyTaco Construction Zone Thu, 26 May 2011 16:10:39 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49733#msg-49733 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49733#msg-49733 SteelSolutions Construction Zone Thu, 26 May 2011 16:04:23 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49715#msg-49715 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49715#msg-49715 Aaron Luptak Construction Zone Thu, 26 May 2011 10:50:48 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49707#msg-49707 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49707#msg-49707 phlat65 Construction Zone Thu, 26 May 2011 00:37:11 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49681#msg-49681 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49681#msg-49681
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gkd
Good point Billy. In my case, once I converted all the rear lateral links to heim-jointed chrome-moly tubes I noticed the rear alignment changing(not outright failure-just bending over time). This issue became less noticeable when the trailing arms were strengthened. The toe link body mount that you ripped off is what I am going to reinforce next.

George

But you want that toe link at the frame to fail. It's not like you're hitting trees on a regular basis on stage. It's part of a modular piece that's welded in. All I need to do is cut and re-weld in a new one. If I strengthened it (don't really know how aside from extra plating it, it would start pulling the floor out behind the seats next.

I might stick with doing the spider web with smaller bars to keep the flex down as I see that being a problem. I've seen track cars split the trailing arm near the upper control arm mount giving massive positive camber from having too much grip. So the same weak point is there for rally.

But i've also just been running rubber bushings all around, no heims.]]> BillyElliot Construction Zone Wed, 25 May 2011 10:29:15 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49678#msg-49678 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49678#msg-49678
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gkd
What is the weight?

This frame was not about the weight I used thick wall 4130
and lots of 3/16, Its for preventing failure, I can get another
5 lbs out of the frame but not worth the risk.]]> SteelSolutions Construction Zone Wed, 25 May 2011 02:49:59 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49677#msg-49677 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49677#msg-49677 phlat65 Construction Zone Wed, 25 May 2011 00:53:15 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49674#msg-49674 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49674#msg-49674
George]]> gkd Construction Zone Tue, 24 May 2011 23:32:33 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49671#msg-49671 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49671#msg-49671
Considering I ripped out the toe link mount from the frame, plucked the big trailing arm bushing out (and pulled one of those mounts from the frame), bent a lower control arm, and completely yanked out the upper. My trailing arm doesn't even look bent up at all (I'll compare it to a non-bent one in the future).]]> BillyElliot Construction Zone Tue, 24 May 2011 22:54:17 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49669#msg-49669 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49669#msg-49669 gkd Construction Zone Tue, 24 May 2011 22:02:51 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49666#msg-49666 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49666#msg-49666 SteelSolutions Construction Zone Tue, 24 May 2011 20:41:01 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49665#msg-49665 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49665#msg-49665
BTW, what color you want me to paint it? Hot pink, day glo orange?]]> phlat65 Construction Zone Tue, 24 May 2011 20:37:43 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49658#msg-49658 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49658#msg-49658
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phlat65
Looking good William! He is going to be stoked.

Yeah, he is. I mean, Yes I am!!!]]> brianosaurus Construction Zone Tue, 24 May 2011 17:04:53 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49657#msg-49657 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49657#msg-49657
Interesting point about the frame interchangeability between EG 92-95 Civic(same as 94-01 Integra) and EK 96-00 Civic. In my search I have seen conflicting reports on having camber issues when using EG subframes on EKs. Thorough measurement would be necessary. You are right that the EG subframe is definitely better for K-series motors(RSX-S, 06-on Civic SI, TSX) which can make great power. As far as control arms go, the base EK has stout cast iron ones and the 99 Si boxed steel units that are about 1 pound lighter. The EK uses larger bolts than the EG on the front mount of the lower control arm. With careful planning the custom subframe could work for both cars incorporating the best features of each design and maybe be available in 2 versions.

George]]> gkd Construction Zone Tue, 24 May 2011 16:38:40 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49628#msg-49628 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49628#msg-49628
George the rear trailing arms you got there look pretty good actually. That center "spinder web" section is probably the most important part of the reinforcement.

As for the subframes; making an EG subframe would work on all 92+ Civics and Integras. The 96+ civic crowd would just have to swap the control arms to the better ones from the Integra. And the design would have to allow for a K20 to drop in :D]]> Cosworth Construction Zone Tue, 24 May 2011 08:34:21 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49626#msg-49626 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49626#msg-49626
George]]> gkd Construction Zone Tue, 24 May 2011 02:22:27 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49625#msg-49625 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49625#msg-49625 As Kris said, the material fatigues around the spindle on the outside surface of the trailing arm. My theory is that the reason this happens is because the backside of the spindle( where the large nut is) is supported by a metal plate that is full of holes and flexes. The outside is then forced to resist this flexing and ends up carrying most of the load. As you can see on mine we reinforced the backside area. There are more gussets hidden from view. The lower control arm attachment point was also reinforced.
The result of all of this reinforcement is that my rear wheel bearings have now become the weak link. Every rear link is heim-jointed at this point. I am going to go back to a stock rubber-bushed link at the upper control arm to allow some "give". More pictures to come of the arms on the car.

George]]> gkd Construction Zone Tue, 24 May 2011 02:14:22 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49619#msg-49619 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49619#msg-49619
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john vanlandingham
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gkd
William,

I have the same questions as Billy. If you made a front subframe for the 96-00 Civic that is lighter than stock, I would be first in line. I have had no issues with the stock front subframe(seam welded) on the 96-00 in about 10 rallies but it is heavy.

The Civic rear trailing arms are another worthwhile project. I have reinforced mine and they seem to work fine, but something even stronger and lighter would be nice.

George

George, can you take some piccies of the rear arms?
From outside the car, from under on the inside etc.

That's always a start.

http://www.hondamarketplace.com/showthread.php?t=2724671 will have a lot of good pictures of them off the car.

Here's where the spindle mounts to the arm (torx screws and big nut)


]]> BillyElliot Construction Zone Tue, 24 May 2011 00:10:51 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49614#msg-49614 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49614#msg-49614 RallySol Construction Zone Mon, 23 May 2011 21:14:08 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49606#msg-49606 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49606#msg-49606
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phlat65
Looking good William! He is going to be stoked.

Would it be safe to assume that I have reason to be stoked as well?

Mo mojo fo dojo?

William, looks great. Get in touch with me about what measurements you need for the ovlov.]]> slidewayswrx Construction Zone Mon, 23 May 2011 18:00:50 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49603#msg-49603 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49603#msg-49603
Wondering if this is designed for stock:
* rear motor/transmission mount?
* steering rack?
* sway bar?

92-95 (EG) & 96-00 (EK) are both pretty different from 88-91 (EF) - the EF had the radius rod setup coming back from underneath the radiator, whereas EG and EK had 'real' a-arms for the front LCA - I believe the 2nd mounting point on the arm is on that subframe as well. Steering racks mount differently too. Mounting points on the unibody MIGHT be the same (could maybe reuse the bottom half of your jig), but that's probably about it.

Definitely interested in seeing the final product!]]> Aaron Luptak Construction Zone Mon, 23 May 2011 16:09:24 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49602#msg-49602 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49602#msg-49602
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gkd

The Civic rear trailing arms are another worthwhile project. I have reinforced mine and they seem to work fine, but something even stronger and lighter would be nice.

The rear trailing arms do fatigue at where the hub mounts. We treat them as a wear item.

The design is goofy as well, but figure it works well enough to keep the wheels rolling.

Haven't had issue with front subframe either, we run stock, unwelded.

On the very front we do use a custom crossmember that the skidplate mounts, and our tension/compression rod mounts on the Civic (Integra doesn't use t/c rods).]]> krisdahl Construction Zone Mon, 23 May 2011 15:56:10 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49600#msg-49600 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49600#msg-49600 money talks you get me 3 frames to do of the newer cars and we can talk $1800 for 3
and the rear tailing arms 3 sets of those and I will make them as well, no idea about price
they look like they are quit in depth.]]> SteelSolutions Construction Zone Mon, 23 May 2011 14:56:53 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49599#msg-49599 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49599#msg-49599
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john vanlandingham

George, can you take some piccies of the rear arms?
From outside the car, from under on the inside etc.

That's always a start.

Will do.]]> gkd Construction Zone Mon, 23 May 2011 13:49:52 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49598#msg-49598 Re: Totally Tubular Honda part https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,49587,49598#msg-49598 phlat65 Construction Zone Mon, 23 May 2011 13:41:31 -0500