K-sport hand brake issues So I bought a cheap K-sport hydraulic hand brake. I installed it, plumbed the lines, bleed it and it works....just not perfect. You step on the brake pedal and the rear brakes work fine. You pull the handle and the tires lock up fairly easily. But if you push the brake pedal and then pull the handle then let off the foot pedal and then the lever, the rear calipers don't release all the way and drag quite a bit. At this point you can notice that the hand brake lever is stiffer than it usually is. They continue to drag until you reapply pressure to the foot pedal at which point you hear a slight click (may or may not just be the brake light switch) and the system then operates normally. I have a wilwood proportioning valve between the main master and the handbrake master and have not ruled out that this isn't what is causing the issue. I emailed k-sport and they didn't seem to know what was going on and suggested I had air in the lines and that rebleeding them would solve all of my problems. I don't think that sounds right. I've read other places and on this forum that the k-sport master is just a pile of crap and that a wilwood will solve all of my problems. I also saw one spot where someone said the wilwood caliper did the exact same thing as the k-sport. I'd like to just buy a wilwood and be done with it but I don't want to buy it and have the same problem. Can anyone tell me whether or not the wilwood will act the same way or not? Could it possibly be air? Proportioning valve? https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95215#msg-95215 Tue, 07 Apr 2026 04:38:37 -0500 Phorum 5.2.15a https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,99627#msg-99627 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,99627#msg-99627 A1337STI Construction Zone Tue, 29 Jul 2014 11:41:18 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,99583#msg-99583 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,99583#msg-99583
So here's a few benefits of a hydraulic handbrake.
1. No disassembly of parking brake to swap a rear upright. Could prevent a penalty in service. We swapped and upright in Parc Expose at 100AW this year. Without parking brake stuff it's relatively easy.
2. Less unsprung weight - Not much but you do get to lose the shoes and parking brake internals.
3. Less rotational mass - Again not much but you also get to remove the ABS trigger wheels. Sure, that has nothing to do with the parking brakes but I don't care. :)]]> NoCoast Construction Zone Mon, 28 Jul 2014 10:29:54 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,99577#msg-99577 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,99577#msg-99577
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A1337STI
I just don't get the obsession with hydraulic hand brakes. Rallies in the south west don't really have hair pins. (I've seen 1 tight true hair pin out of 8 or so different events)

Then again i'm the guy who won't paint his car, get my name on my driving suit, etc.

wouldn't having adjustable brake bias (front to rear) in real time be a lot more helpful ? and even negate the need for one?

like Oh i'm coming up to the 1 hair pin in this entire rally, i'll dial my brake bias to be max rear, take the corner, and set it back to normal(ish) ?

also wouldn't it be cheaper?

(not trying to Rag on the OP ) :)


I'm not offended. I think there are legitimate reasons to put a hydraulic handbrake in a rally car. My reasons include:

-The stock parking brake didn't really work. It made noise and would drag the brake a bit but wouldn't keep the car from rolling on a hill.
-When I put wilwood calipers on they didn't come with an option to hook the stock or any parking brake cable to them.
-The k-sport brake actually has a little bar that will lock the lever in position keeping the handbrake on. Its only a matter of how long it will hold pressure for.
-I love pulling the hand brake.
-I want to be a drift king.

I started this because I didn't know what was going on and didn't really like the fact that I could have my rear calipers dragging and not realize it.]]> MarkHille Construction Zone Mon, 28 Jul 2014 08:12:43 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,99547#msg-99547 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,99547#msg-99547 aj_johnson Construction Zone Fri, 25 Jul 2014 20:28:39 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,99545#msg-99545 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,99545#msg-99545
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Aaron Luptak
but now that I look closely, it's just a wilwood clutch pedal (http://www.jegs.com/i/Wilwood/950/340-1289/10002/-1?parentProductId=744524) with a slick handle.

that's how I made mine. this one's cheaper: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hre-52992]]> KTurner Construction Zone Fri, 25 Jul 2014 19:29:08 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,99541#msg-99541 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,99541#msg-99541
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aj_johnson
I got mine from levelride concepts over in portland..



why oh why would you make a custom little sheet metal bracket, and not bother to make it actually fit the master cylinder, and just hang it off the back with bolts and spacers instead?

(I suppose it's better than a stack of washers...)




personally, I was thinking of getting the ASD one (http://asdmotorsports.3dcartstores.com/ASD-Universal-Hydraulic-E-Brake-16-Pull-Back_p_51.html), but now that I look closely, it's just a wilwood clutch pedal (http://www.jegs.com/i/Wilwood/950/340-1289/10002/-1?parentProductId=744524) with a slick handle.]]> Aaron Luptak Construction Zone Fri, 25 Jul 2014 14:49:27 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,99539#msg-99539 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,99539#msg-99539
I got mine from levelride concepts over in portland. Really nice little unit, supposedly they have one that incorporates a switch for launch control into the design. Units run about 200 with willwood master.]]> aj_johnson Construction Zone Fri, 25 Jul 2014 14:15:52 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,99535#msg-99535 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,99535#msg-99535
Then again i'm the guy who won't paint his car, get my name on my driving suit, etc.

wouldn't having adjustable brake bias (front to rear) in real time be a lot more helpful ? and even negate the need for one?

like Oh i'm coming up to the 1 hair pin in this entire rally, i'll dial my brake bias to be max rear, take the corner, and set it back to normal(ish) ?

also wouldn't it be cheaper?

(not trying to Rag on the OP ) :)]]> A1337STI Construction Zone Fri, 25 Jul 2014 12:59:02 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,99531#msg-99531 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,99531#msg-99531 amazon.com]]> brown87 Construction Zone Fri, 25 Jul 2014 06:14:42 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,99396#msg-99396 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,99396#msg-99396 I still contest that this isn't really an issue in real world applications, though you can easily solve it by just spending more money if it really bothers you.]]> NoCoast Construction Zone Mon, 21 Jul 2014 11:01:01 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,99391#msg-99391 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,99391#msg-99391
The problem with MY k-sport wasn't poor craftsmanshit, it was in the design of the master. It looks similar to this one:



If you notice there is a yellow circle around the front seal. The problem is that when you apply pressure from the inlet side and also from the piston you get a certain amount of pressure at the outlet side. When you remove pressure from the inlet side the pressure from the outlet side forces that seal to remain sealed and you get higher pressure (not as high as it once was because you have let off the piston) still remaining on the outlet side keeping the rear brakes on. When you apply the brake pedal again, it brakes the seal in the yellow circle and allows the pressure to equalize until the next time you push the pedal and pull the handbrake at the same time. If you have a master with this design and you don't experience this problem it is because your seal isn't 100% and the pressure is allowed to equalize and release the seal. This also causes a low pedal as when you pull the handbrake it allows some fluid past this point that the main master has to overcome at some point. But if it is only a small amount it is hardly noticeable and is much preferred over the sticking rear calipers. Or you may also just never notice that the brake is sticking.

One solution to the sticking problem would be to create some sort of very small bleed from the inlet side of the seal to the outlet side of the seal. You could drill a .013" hole and place a .012" stainless steal wire in the hole where the blue mark in the yellow circle is. That would in theory be enough to bleed off a small enough amount of fluid so that the handbrake would still work properly but it wouldn't hold pressure locking the seal in place. Of course this would mean that the handbrake would no longer be able to be used as a parking brake because the pressure would be lowering over time and the brakes would eventually disengage. This is not recommended because the rules state you need a working parking brake although I don't know how many of these hydraulic handbrakes would work as a parking brake anyway.]]> MarkHille Construction Zone Mon, 21 Jul 2014 09:55:33 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,99389#msg-99389 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,99389#msg-99389 JuggernautMotorsports Construction Zone Sun, 20 Jul 2014 23:03:12 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95386#msg-95386 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95386#msg-95386
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Reamer
Yes mine is a girling style willwood. Grants image sounds like the issue. I dont believe it has any thing to do with the rod adjustment. I think its just a down fall of the way there plumbed in.

I have a Girling style Wilwood (yeah, I plumbed it backwards when I installed it, too... silly design, but it was $25 at Summit) and have no hangup issues at all. I frequently apply the handbrake with the footbrake in all kinds of orders and never have an issue.

I DO however get the typical low pedal after using the handbrake - because the shim fit is on the loose side. I'm okay with that.]]> Pete Construction Zone Tue, 18 Mar 2014 16:49:13 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95385#msg-95385 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95385#msg-95385
Matt is saying the same as what im trying to say. And a quick tap of the foot brake and this issue goes away. Not a 600 pound push just a quick release of pressure type push. I really dont think its a bad part issue this is the 3rd hand brake ive made and installed 2 with the willwood and 1 I made from a Nissan 5/8 clutch slave. All of them did this. All 60's technology gerling style.

I think the 2 piece piston is working correctly its just not designed to see pressure from the feed side that the foot brake is adding. adding a shuttle valve would probably fix this but not sure its worth the extra piping for the slim few times this happens.]]> Reamer Construction Zone Tue, 18 Mar 2014 16:45:19 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95383#msg-95383 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95383#msg-95383
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Reamer
If the k sport issue is the rod to long. Take the rod out shorten it and give your self some more adjustment.

When mine is full released the rod is stopped by the circlip in the cylinder. Thats why I say it must be willwoods issue.

If the foot brake is messing with the seal of the hand brake maybe its trying to invert it or hydrolocking and stopping it from fully releasing. even thow the handle is all the way back. The piston is not directly hooked to the rod in a willwood they are 2 pieces.
If the rod is hanging lose then its not that. Its the 2 piece piston, that at the very tip that piston/valve that shuts off the feed port is probably nor working correctly.

Now the design is from the early 60's but it doesn't mean it wont work well, situation is theres more chances of problems and when things arent machined properly and made cheaply in massive batches with low QC then you have these situations.

I wouldn't recommend adding other gizmos to the line. Its nothing but bandaids that will only mask the original issues. Plus its one more thing to go wrong. WRC cars don't have them, then you don't need them either.]]> Cosworth Construction Zone Tue, 18 Mar 2014 15:27:52 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95381#msg-95381 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95381#msg-95381
I'm pretty sure the issue is that the pressure exerted on the back of the piston (inlet side of the handbrake master) from the foot brake master, is what is causing the rear brakes to drag. We had a similar incident at ESPR last year.

A little digging around in industrial hydraulics found that you can source a ball style shuttle valve for around $30 bucks.

http://www.go2hydraulics.com/docs/mfr/vickers/vickers-dirctional-control-valves.pdf#page=24
http://www.go2hydraulics.com/product/10043F/direct-acting-shuttle-valves-dsv.html

If you're really cheap, you can pick up this one:
http://www.hydraforce.com/Directnl/Dir-pdf/4-260-1.pdf
http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Valves/Check-Lock-Valves/SAE-6-SHUTTLE-VALVE-9-6361.axd#tab1

Someone buy one and try it, so I can convince Kevin to put one in ours.]]> X Monâ„¢ Construction Zone Tue, 18 Mar 2014 14:34:51 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95380#msg-95380 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95380#msg-95380


I have one of this which says its a girling design, which is what i'm assuming everyone else has that isnt working properly.
http://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/MasterCylinderProd.aspx?itemno=260-6087




I'm not sure what to replace it with though, what the 'new design' is. This from tilton is something similar, doesn't mention what type of design it is though.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/til-76-625/overview/]]> czwalga Construction Zone Tue, 18 Mar 2014 14:30:42 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95378#msg-95378 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95378#msg-95378 Reamer Construction Zone Tue, 18 Mar 2014 13:54:25 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95377#msg-95377 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95377#msg-95377
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john vanlandingham
Nothing is 100% but I've used Girling, Tilton, Wilwood, Akebono and Nabco all without issue..

You're thinking too hard.

Or not hard enough! ha HA :hot:

I get what everyone is saying and I would have bought a new wilwood MC except for the fact that Jeff is saying he has one of the current wilwoods and his is working the same as mine……

Ksport won’t send me what their internals look like so I’m about to open it up myself and find out whats going on in there.

Paulinho, if you have part numbers that will solve my life I would be more than interested. Even if you just confirm the link I put up.

John, did you ever get my email about merkur brakes?]]> MarkHille Construction Zone Tue, 18 Mar 2014 13:51:41 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95376#msg-95376 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95376#msg-95376
When mine is full released the rod is stopped by the circlip in the cylinder. Thats why I say it must be willwoods issue.

If the foot brake is messing with the seal of the hand brake maybe its trying to invert it or hydrolocking and stopping it from fully releasing. even thow the handle is all the way back. The piston is not directly hooked to the rod in a willwood they are 2 pieces.]]> Reamer Construction Zone Tue, 18 Mar 2014 13:48:15 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95375#msg-95375 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95375#msg-95375
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Cosworth
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john vanlandingham
Nothing is 100% but I've used Girling, Tilton, Wilwood, Akebono and Nabco all without issue..

You're thinking too hard.
Those have different designs between them. The reason no one uses the 50 year old girling design in any profeshunal racing is because what I keep saying the little piston bellow blocks the fluid. And its even more prone to failure on cheap manufactured units. That piston at the very front that seals off the feed hole is not set right. Either its "jamming" or whatever... that's why when they press the brake pedal, the 600+ psi push that piston/valve back and it works again because it opens the system. Use the handbrake and the piston jams again closing the system and causing drag.

Just put on the new style designs, its a simpler design and less parts. None of that 2 stage actuation crap, and its not that much more expensive than a cheapo willywood.

Oh I agree with the ancient design problems, but I'm saying that its not a plumbing issue, its an inherent thing...
I prefer fluid in somewhere mid ways and out the end.. simple..]]> john vanlandingham Construction Zone Tue, 18 Mar 2014 13:46:38 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95374#msg-95374 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95374#msg-95374
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john vanlandingham
Nothing is 100% but I've used Girling, Tilton, Wilwood, Akebono and Nabco all without issue..

You're thinking too hard.
Those have different designs between them. The reason no one uses the 50 year old girling design in any profeshunal racing is because what I keep saying the little piston bellow blocks the fluid. And its even more prone to failure on cheap manufactured units. That piston at the very front that seals off the feed hole is not set right. Either its "jamming" or whatever... that's why when they press the brake pedal, the 600+ psi push that piston/valve back and it works again because it opens the system. Use the handbrake and the piston jams again closing the system and causing drag.

Just put on the new style designs, its a simpler design and less parts. None of that 2 stage actuation crap, and its not that much more expensive than a cheapo willywood.]]> Cosworth Construction Zone Tue, 18 Mar 2014 13:31:09 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95373#msg-95373 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95373#msg-95373
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Reamer
Yes mine is a girling style willwood. Grants image sounds like the issue. I dont believe it has any thing to do with the rod adjustment. I think its just a down fall of the way there plumbed in.
line in--line out.Cannot be simpler..
Worked a million times plumbed same way

What could suddenly be wrong with the plumbing---that has worked well for decades?]]> john vanlandingham Construction Zone Tue, 18 Mar 2014 13:25:55 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95372#msg-95372 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95372#msg-95372 Reamer Construction Zone Tue, 18 Mar 2014 13:16:33 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95367#msg-95367 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95367#msg-95367 NoCoast Construction Zone Tue, 18 Mar 2014 11:07:59 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95363#msg-95363 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95363#msg-95363
You're thinking too hard.]]> john vanlandingham Construction Zone Tue, 18 Mar 2014 09:54:57 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95357#msg-95357 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95357#msg-95357
Jeff, is yours a Girling style?

I'm not convinced a new master will help. It seems like this should be easier to figure out than it is. Like that guy in the bmw thread never posted back if switching ever helped. I found a diagram on an old thread here that showed this photo.



That little round thing connecting the two lines after the handbrake is a shuttle/priority valve. I was thinking this was how it had to be done but I don't really know.

Here is the wilwood master I was looking at. [url=http://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/MasterCylinderList.aspx?group=Compact Remote Reservoir Master Cylinder]master cylinder[/url] It says Girling.

Paulinho, are you saying your 100% sure this master cylinder with solve my issues?]]> MarkHille Construction Zone Tue, 18 Mar 2014 08:07:40 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95319#msg-95319 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95319#msg-95319
here is a thred with a comparison
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1921948-Hydro-Ebrake-sticking/page2


]]> fidel Construction Zone Mon, 17 Mar 2014 14:29:04 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95303#msg-95303 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95303#msg-95303
Or does the fluid put in the hand brake from the foot brake hydrolic the piston from returning? Or does the fluid from the foot brake not allow the piston to clear the breather hole? This issue is not a big deal. a quick tap of brake and it releases. I am curious now why it locks up. I cant visually picture what is happening? The handle is full return in both cases.]]> Reamer Construction Zone Mon, 17 Mar 2014 12:56:38 -0500 https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95287#msg-95287 Re: K-sport hand brake issues https://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,95215,95287#msg-95287
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Reamer
Mine is not a k sport and like I said it is a willwood master. Big writing on the side saying willwood!
well even Tiltons and APs sometimes need to be reshimmed. Either way they piston bellow is not uncovering the breather hole completely for the retraction. Could be the master housing or the rod thread out too much and slightly pushing on the piston. Test is on bench with some air pressure.]]> Cosworth Construction Zone Sun, 16 Mar 2014 22:18:42 -0500