Bullshit hype

dtompsett Wrote:
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> Deleted.
>
> I apologize for any ill-made comments I made in
> regards to you Alan.
>
>
>
> Edited 2 times. Last edit at Dec 19, 2007 by
> dtompsett.

Alan? As in ÜbernitischeRegeljurist und Allgemeine Cheerleader für Rally Amerika Alan Perry?

How do you know it's actually him?

Who ever it is has not followed the one real rule we have here and that's give a full name and a real location, so don't apologize, if it's really Alan Parry from Bainbridge Island Washington give him major shit until he complies with the RULES and then maybe apologize.
A little.

Seriously, several good connections have been made here between guys somewhat nearby because of the location thing, and it's not a lot to ask that people voluntarily comply, especially a rules-geek.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2007 10:59AM by john vanlandingham.

Sent an email to him personally... and he verified.

It is Alan Ockwell. John Vanos's regular co-pilote in Canada and Otis Dimitier's in the U.S. He did not "jump ship" for a ride with Mirra. The whole team was aware and while we REALLY would have liked (needed) him there, we understood the circumstances and another top level co-driver was able to fill in.
I suspect Alan may have been too busy to read the forum rules while he defended himself againts very false accusations.
Just cause we CAN say anything we like here, it doesn't neccesarily mean we should.

Now fill out your profile Alan it's a great forum!

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Gone fishing

OK boys thanks for the corrections.
But really SEE!!!!!!
That's the sorta thing that happens when we have only vague "cutsie names" to go by.

I myself apologize for comparing him to ubernitisk other Alan's.

But a violation is a violation, so I hereby appoint Dave Amor, since he's in the medical field and is used to ickier stuff than the rest of us, the task to administer punishment to this man Ockwell.

Dave! Whack his Pee-pee!

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Vanlandingham is a real name?!?! Get out! Really?!

I thought it was an homage to a late 19th century adventure novel about a family of carpet salesmen who get stranded on an island inhabited only by surly pygmys.

> DR1665 Wrote:
> -----------------------------------------------------
> If her publicity efforts are bringing people to
> rally, then I stand to benefit in a round-about
> sort of way.

NoCoast Wrote:
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> No. You do not. This is a misconception that is
> rampant right now. What the fuck does rally need
> more people for and how would it possibly benefit
> you. What US rally needs is more drivers with
> talent.

As I am always looking to learn something new, I'd be interested in hearing why this is such a misconception. It is my belief that the best (if not only) way to bring more talented drivers to the sport is by increasing public awareness thereof. It's not like we've got a PWRC or feeder series over here.

Just as I was unaware there was any organized form of rally in the US just a couple years ago, we all know there are a large number of motorsport enthusiasts in this country who are in the dark as well. They may be caught up in road racing (HPDE), autocross (yawn), or even drag racing (double yawn). Sure, to some of us familiar with truly balls-to-the-wall rally drivers, it might seem she's over-hyping her accomplishments, but it's hype that gets word out about the sport. You've got to add a little bit of sensationalism to things if you want people with generally short attention spans to take notice.

Kris Marciniak and I went to a local car show in Scottsdale a couple months ago and stumbled upon an older chap with one of those crazy old Saab's JVL loves. It was set up as a rally car, so we waited for others to wrap up conversations with him before striking up a conversation about rally with the old boy. He told us all about how he has a home in Nottingham, where he keeps his other Saab rally car, and that he and his wife ship this one all over the world to run month-long historic events. He was very nonchalant about it too. So, here's how the entry-level guy who's suddenly got a small spark in his heart over learning how he might get into the sport takes this sort of conversation...

FNG (Fucking New Guy): Is that a real rally car?
OSF (Old Saab Fart): Yes it is.
FNG: I love rally. I'd love to get into it myself, but there's not much info out there about it aside from the WRC. Where do you race?
OSF: Well, I have money coming out my ass and travel all over the world like the WASP I am. I take leisurely drives through the countryside and stay in the finest hotels across Europe.
FNG: Fuck it. Guess I'll just build another drag car.

I feel that exposure is paramount to the growth of this sport in the US. Whether that be an experienced racer deciding to try his hand at rally, or the youngster who sees video of someone simply driving fast on a dirt road and tells a bunch of his friends about it, it serves to generate interest in the sport and I don't see how that can be anything but beneficial. People need to see that it happens in this country and that anyone can get involved.

People out there are interested in the baja trucks. They've got plenty of entries for their events (which actually have cash payouts these days) and, moreover, there is no shortage of truck owners installing pre-runner suspensions and fiberglass front clips on their daily drivers. The interest in that sport creates an interest in related performance/appearance products. (Hell, there is a NASCAR aisle at Target now. NASCAR.) We are all consumer whores, so the more people out there sporting the baja truck look, the more demand there is for those products. The demand for those products creates relevance for potential sponsorship opportunities.

With regards to Lisa possibly over-promoting her accomplishments with a bit of over-zealous marketing, then that's between her, her sponsors, and her fans. In the end, if she is unable to deliver on her promises, the walls will crumble around her just as they would anyone else. Sponsors will bail, fans will lose interest, and she will have to start all over again.

Cliff's Notes: I believe that exposure to rally generates interest in rally, which translates into more prospective drivers. As such, I feel that Lisa's marketing efforts stand to generate increased interest in rally and any negative backlash stands to land squarely in her lap, not ours.

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

DR1665 Wrote:
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>
Brian, you are the newb-way-jazzed-with-the-whole-scene arch optimist.

What crusty old geezer's like me have SEEN is just what Gene McCollough stated (in yet another chilling example of some sorta convergence of opinions which really shows we have been thinking quite alike for years---such a shame there's been a misperception of that from both sides)
When people bullshit the stuff to sponsors and prospective sponors, when the sponsors realise they have been bullshitted it harms not only the bullshiiter's realtionship, it hurts the overall "Sport".

Sponsors are people and people talk to their peers and chums, and when a sponsor realises eventually that they were sold a bill of goods, they talk to others.
And do you think they're going to say "Yeah I was foolish and gave xxxxx truckloads of bundled 100s to Joe-or Wanda Schmoe and he was an utter bullshitter and liar"
Or will they say "Yeah i sponsored a RALLY team and it wasn't what it was hypped to be" and that spoils things for "us" with god knows how many other potential companies.

As for promotion on the TV of just the rich guys in their hordes of identical Subarus being of any benefit, what I have heard from those people I run into when the subject comes up is that they see the super glitzy cars----and the boring coached type boring flat answers---and then the huge service rig and even semi- and amotorhomes and think, fawk me thats WAAAAAAAY crazy sheet, (and they don't say it immediately but they don't even THINK that they could do anything at all like that)---
Further, if all they see is low talent rich guy running at "save the car" type speeds, WHY would it jump into their heads the idea that they could have a blast building a 240 Volvo turbo on a extremely low budget???

No they conclude that the "price of entry" is a fancy blue Subaru with a platoon of guys and a semi to keep it running-

And they remain a spectator----a consumer---rather than a participant.

Now if they saw MORE kick ass GpF type stuff, then the logical leap would be that they would think "HOT DAMN MAN THAT looks like some fun shit, man!!! I could build a ___________ outa the one sitting in back of that house down the road and get out there and go fuckin CRAZY!!!! YaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhHHHHHH!!!!!!

This is how I've sen it work here in the Rally sport for the 20 something years I've done it and what happened when moto-cross "went big show" with Supercross in stadiums as well, the growth stopped as the spectator numbers went up in the stadiums, and people became "consumers" rather than racers.
And it only got worse with the silly 100% hype "look at me" nonsense of "Extreme MX".

>
> With regards to Lisa possibly over-promoting her
> accomplishments with a bit of over-zealous
> marketing, then that's between her, her sponsors,
> and her fans. In the end, if she is unable to
> deliver on her promises, the walls will crumble
> around her just as they would anyone else.
> Sponsors will bail, fans will lose interest, and
> she will have to start all over again.
>
> Cliff's Notes: I believe that exposure to rally
> generates interest in rally, which translates into
> more prospective drivers. As such, I feel that
> Lisa's marketing efforts stand to generate
> increased interest in rally and any negative
> backlash stands to land squarely in her lap, not
> ours.
>
>
>
> Brian DR1665 | Phoenix, AZ
> Have a lucky day.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

John Lane,
I am still bitter about Kendall's inability to use her mirrors as well. She held me up at 2 events back in her day. She cost me time, destroyed some glass on the front of my car, and never apologised. She did the same to everyone. Never changed her ways. Her navvie at Maine did apologise. Really, it was our NEDiv-SCCA region peeps that didn't keep any divional seeding records that was at fault for allowing Kendall to start a stage in front of anything but sweep, maybe. We should have gone vigilante and chrome-horned her into a swamp. Talking to her and the stewards didn't do much.

Her friend and supporter John Shirley (even huger pantload IMHO,and try and get me to delete that!) was just as self-centered. He was faster, but equally talented as a driver and human. RIP, both of them. Sorry for the thread jack.

I never had a problem with the rest of the female rally drivers. I used to run a lot of same stage roads with Lesley Suddard, she was always a good sport. Met Janice D when she headed East, also a good sport. Who's the girl with the red Evo and the big stick. She's seems ok? I wish I could say she has held me up. And, it's fun to watch them try and find a spot where they think it is ok to pee, especially when the snow is really deep. They're not all bad.

Maybe SRT-USA needs to pickup Danica Patrick to help change our minds.

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Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

Profile updated, no need to administer (much) punishment.

AlanO Wrote:
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> Profile updated, no need to administer (much)
> punishment.

Thanks! And look at that! You're already a "Professional Moderator".

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2007 12:20PM by john vanlandingham.

Eddie Fiorelli Wrote:
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> Vanlandingham is a real name?!?! Get out! Really?!
>
>
> I thought it was an homage to a late 19th century
> adventure novel about a family of carpet salesmen
> who get stranded on an island inhabited only by
> surly pygmys.

No he's not real...He's just a figment of your imagination...LOL..He maybe a " spam bot" know ones real sure..His real last name is Smith or Jones...LOL...And he is a carpet saleman by trade...LOL......

Its funny (or sad) how hard some people are to deal with in racing..There ego and car paint is more important then there stage (lap) times ...And why is it the people who can't drive them selfs out of a wate paper bag have to be dicks..???..Racing is and always should be a contact sport...Move over or speed up..Or you will get stuffed..If someone would of rammed this Lady a time or three ..She would of been looking back behind her ..You hold me up and you WILL get stuffed..And I could be DQ'ed over it ..I know...But how I look at it ...My race is over anyhow now that I've lost so much time stuck behind your slow ass on stage...Move over or I'm going around you ,over you, or through you....How would you like it..??

I'm glad the young Lady got some lime light in Drifting..("I" do not feel Drifting like sportbike stunting and MX Exstream..Are not racing..Its a show.. Racing has a clock..Not who did the best burnout or stoppie..But thats just my old age showing here..These "shows" are killing racing and pulling money and fanes away from real racing..As a sportbike racer..Anyone can do wheelies and stoppies..Its a whole differant game to head to the first turn at over a "ton" trying to get around 15 other guys who will kill you over a $8.00 dollar trophy..Sorry Kids.. ) But there are a mess of people who deserve it more..Its sad it took "tits" and "ass" to get her there..I would hope she would also "try" to bring some of the drivers who do not have tits. And should be in the lime light do there faster stage time then her..She has a door opened to the sport ..And I hope she does not close it in the face of who was in the line way in front of her trying to get that door open with just being a fast driver..The magic key to every door in a ladys life...T and A..Be carefull Miss.. Someday the "T n A" card is not going to be there .. And you will be judged by your driving when gravity and old age sneaks up on you someday... One of my pet peeves in life ...Ladys who lead with there tits..When they have so many other great asset to lead there life with.. Motorsports is turning into the damn WWF.....BS over what the clock says who should be in the lime light..

I lost alot of respect for the Young Lady and the man from New Zealand.. There car had mess of stuff not to spec ..And they came off as "so what" in tec at Prescott...Sad..

David

Hazardous Toys inc






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2007 12:38PM by Haztoys.

AlanO Wrote:
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> Profile updated, no need to administer (much)
> punishment.

Just be glad you didn't start off by calling them all "gentlemen." They hate that.

Good points on the burned sponsors and all that. No doubt potential sponsors have dozens of individuals blowing their own horns at them all the time. Making a new venture into the rally world and getting burned could have rather permanent ramifications.

And don't worry about my optimisim, JVL. Given enough time, I'm sure the American rally community will have my head out of the clouds in due time.

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

I'll give a little better example of the potential problem. This is a true story. Our town has a very active dirt track, The World of Outlaws hits us on their tour. I first raced on this track in the late 70's. It's a huge part of our community.

Years ago a mediocre racer with an excellent line of bull shit talked the Chevrolet dealer into backing a car for him. He got mass amounts of parts and dollars. They bought the engine, trans, coil overs and a full blown quick change rear end. Well the car never happened. My employer ended up with the shell and some bits. It was mostly caged. Engine, suspension, quick change all disappeared. Now, how receptive do you think the Chevy dealer was to the next sponsorship proposal he received ?? Tarnish rubs off onto anyone who touches it.

We also were lucky enough to have a local gal decide to build a monster jeep back in the day. It was a total piece of crap with a 327 Chev in it. The self promotion was relentless. Yap, yap, yap. OMG it never stopped. Well they finally rustled up enough sponsorship to get to an ESPN televised show...their performance was so bad that ESPN told her not to come back..so when she came home she loudly proclaimed her success but that she quit because the show was backed by tobacco money and she refused to be a part of that. Role model for the kids you know...

However, keep in mind that Lisa switching to drifting doesn't exactly relate to any door opening for rally, after all look at all the NASCAR drivers Montoya has switched to F1...

http://www.aetv.com/drivingforce/

Thoughts?

---

Lurch
Eric Burmeister
The west coast...of Michigan

Lurch Wrote:
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> >
> Thoughts?
>

Uhh... Thanks. I'll have to watch the show. Looks like a cool family full of talented drivers. Dad has 15 NHRA titles. It'll be interesting to see how the daughter does.

I am securely of the opinion that drag racing is a combination of relexes, practice, and mostly money and it mostly comes down to the last one. I bet anyone who could get to level 12 on Tetris could be a good drag racer.

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Grant Hughes