To me getting sponsors and keeping them by doing well by them sounds like a lot of work.

Thus I do not see why sponsors are better then earning money at another job. I get paid a lot more to do what I do then I would likely make via sponsorship unless I quit my job and decided to be a full time pro. Thus I work to sponsor my self and I rather like not needing to deal with media etc.

There is a 3rd Option the Paul Ekland way - start a company around your rally products and let that pay for the car.

I am sure there are a lot of companys out there like KAZZ look and see they have 0.01113245% of the market but if they could get women to become part of the market they might still have 0.01113245% of the market but the market would be twice the size. Thus it makes since to work with boobies.

---

In the long run reality always wins.

And then there is the level of sponsorship participation. I know of some national level rally cars with big corporate names on the side and very small dollars involved. Many times you get $XX for an event or a year but then you get $XXXX if you win a championship or whatever. Sometimes the sponsorship is a trade out for parts or even worse just a big discount. Many times it's an ego thing, the sponsor names are kind of a trophy. Back in the day I had a local tavern that paid all my entry fees, a parts store that gave us $200 a race and some money from Hamms brewering corporate offices. It was pretty easy money, not a lot of hoop jumping, work a parade or 2 every year. Not a bad deal for rally back then. I once won $700 from Toyota during Olympus and $1000 from Bridgestone...had to win Open at a national for that. Nowadays it's even tougher. The big deal was the IRS allowing me to write off all the expenses as part of my business, that was some sponsorhip !!

heymagic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>. The big deal was
> the IRS allowing me to write off all the expenses
> as part of my business, that was some sponsorhip
> !!


Yes, it's no coincidence that all the major sponsors on our ALMS Ferrari are businesses of the team owner...

derek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>. Thus it makes since to work with
> boobies.
>
>

I like to work with boobies!

Agreed...

You can:

a) Work your ass off to land corporate sponsors:
-- Require lots of attetion and hand holding
-- Fickle as hell, especially in a form of racing that has very soft returns for the sponsor - very hard to measure.
-- Next year, do it again.

b) Work your ass off to develop a career (job) that will pay you well enough to throw $$ at your hobby:
-- You control the $'s, your budget, your extra curricular activities.
-- Its an expense - sometimes gets harder to justify as costs increase.

c) Work your ass off to start a business (rally related or not):
-- Use our tax system to help fund the racing
-- A business will compete with your schedule for racing (ultimately in your control) and so will a job that pays enough to race.
-- You control the sponsor

d) take it easy, get nothing done and complain about it.

Thankfully I've not seen any indication of 'd' people on this forum ...

So..

Stop reading this dribble and get back to freaking work!! Your race car, sponsor, business and/or employer are calling ;p


V-

b and c is often combined. I know of at least one rallyist that runs his car as a business and sponsorship as income. He operates pretty much exclusively at a loss. I believe IRS law allows that for 3 years or something along that line.

---

Grant Hughes

It's not so much "we'll allow this" as the inverse. Businesses that show a profit in 3 out of 5 years have a pretty good case to say "yes, this is a legit biz, not a tax shelter". Businesses failing this test would be looked at critically, IF examined. But even passing the test is no guarantee that the IRS would not retroactively tell you that your biz is a sham and that it's time to pay up. :*(

Cheers,
Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

heymagic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And then there is the level of sponsorship
> participation. I know of some national level rally
> cars with big corporate names on the side and very
> small dollars involved. Many times you get $XX for
> an event or a year but then you get $XXXX if you
> win a championship or whatever. Sometimes the
> sponsorship is a trade out for parts or even worse
> just a big discount. Many times it's an ego thing,
> the sponsor names are kind of a trophy.


Do tell! This kind of crap devalues sponsorship for the entire field.

---

Lurch
Eric Burmeister
The west coast...of Michigan

I ran my rallying for about 3 years in the early 80's as a business and reported it on schedule C of my 1040. When I saw I could, at best, show a profit only in 1 year in 3, I dropped it. Didn't need any IRS hassles.

All that was said above by derek and vbares applied to me: it made mucho more sense for my financial future and family/home to work harder at an engineering career than spend time trying to get sponsors ('specially since I was not a salesman by any stretch of the imagination). Many of us can do better with a part time job or OT or a side business rather than go the sponsorship route.

Now that I have spent many years in sales (and feel I CAn really sell sponsorships), it STILL makes FAR more sense to promote and run our business than put time into seeking and supporting sponsors for the rally cars that I like/have. The only problem is that our business does not sell to the general public and thus being able to justify the rallying as a related business advertising expense is a problem....but we're working on that slowly.

Regards, and good comments,
Mark B.

I've tried all of the above... except d).

I claimed my racing as a business, got audited by Revenu Canada... took 1.5 years, but I finally won :-) they gave me another refund check but said... we suggest you stop doing this now :-) I had already. Being sent ever increasing RevCan bills starting at $35k was a real concern for a while.

One year I worked my ass off doing SR20DET swaps in my spare time. That paid for my entire season of 4cyl stock car racing... but that was pre-kids when I had some time...

Like most I've never really been good at selling myself to sponsors. I had some small deals, but mostly friends with businesses that are willing to help out with frame straightening and paint, or a few parts.

Now I'm relying on the good job that I've worked hard at, and paying for it all myself. Of course now I have a wife and kids they are pretty demanding too, so it's probably time to find another way to fund this habit!

-Martin.

I may claim a schedule C claim for my car, but I plan to actually make money this year rallying through the CHCA. 1st place pays out $300-400 and entry fees are only $150. They 1099 you for the winnings, probably for the purposes of claiming your racing as a business expense.

I also am a contractor. Haven't paid anything in for taxes and realized I have to pay an additional 15% for social security. Combine that with the $10K in investments that I cashed out to buy an engagement ring (though I paid 20% of those) and the additional 10% that the IRS takes on that that I hadn't realized, I'm looking at oweing 6-8K or more. Any way to reduce my earnings is going to help.

I figure I have spent just shy of $10K on the rally team in 2007 in tools, parts, internet fees, etc. Spent a bit more than that in 2006.

---

Grant Hughes

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They 1099 you for the
> winnings, probably for the purposes of claiming
> your racing as a business expense.
>
This became required by IRS rules/law some years ago. It was the way the IRS had to track income that would go unreported otherwise. Hard to think of a few hundred $$ of race winnings as 'income' but there you are.

Make sure you can show a bonefide connection between your racing and you contracting business; otherwise, you're in for potential trouble. Advertising your contracting via the rally car is the main ticket; but if there is not reasonable relationship between who sees the advertising on your car and who buys your contracting services, then it won't be allowed. If your contracting is only to firms who never go to races/rallies, it won't work.

Regards,
Mark B.

a) Work your ass off to land corporate sponsors:
-- Require lots of attetion and hand holding
-- Fickle as hell, especially in a form of racing that has very soft returns for the sponsor - very hard to measure.
-- Next year, do it again.



I've been doing this, but not 'corporate'. Smaller or local vendors that want to get their name out there in some form or another. Much lower expectations, no pressure, and keeps my costs down. One local guy mounts and balances and aligns my car for free. I have his logo/website on my back window. Makes it easy all around and eveyrone's happy. considering I get my car aligned about 6 times a year, its actually apretty good deal for me.

I just sent letters off to Redline and Sparco. Sparco just gives away their stuff at a discount, so other than taking a lot of pictures, there's not much for me to do there. Redline, I just asked for a few cases of oil for the year...not much risk in it for them, but $600 in Redline oil would be pretty sweet for me.

Its all about small steps, because yes, for any business, there's little ROI in sponsoring a team, much less a grassroots team. so you need to start small and build your reputation, and go from there. Who in their right mind would give any of us $10K? I don't care how good your sponsorship letter is or what kind of experience you have.

---

Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

So, just to clarify as far as co-drivers and hill climb specialist (in Colorado) I think I am pretty qaulified for this title as I have been competing and pace noting (MY OWN WRITTEN NOTES NOT COPIED FROM MY NEIGHBOR) since 2004. So I have prett much FOUR FUCKING SEASON under my belt.

But unfortunetly I was quickly knocked off my pedestal when I found this...

http://www.rally-america.com/story.php?article=285 PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE THRID PARAGRAPH FROM THE END.

I could be wrong but I think that Ms. Volger has only competed IN TWO HILL CLIMBS!!!

Grant? Mark? anyone want let me know if my facts are wrong?

*Just to let eveyone know Colorado Hill Climbing is very differnt from European HIll Climbs so I don't really think I am the ultimate specialist on all the hill climbs in all the world, just in the united states lets say.

---

-rebecca
-co-driver for fast drivers
-hill climb specalist
-and architect

So Rebecca how do you really feel?

---

JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun