gilbrock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> well at least I don't suck.


You don't? Every answer I gave you was a lie. Get it?



> I guess we can be friends now.


When hell freezes over.


You wrote something about you're dying. When? Where should I send the flowers?


BTW: learn how to reply to a specific post rather than cluttering a thread.

Richard Miller Wrote:
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> Jens is a liar. He has too competed in a TSD.

I did? Did I win?


What's up with this: "Mustang on the way"? Haven't you finished that Detroit tank yet?

NoCoast Wrote:
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> We talked about starting a rally club once.


Talking about it is exactly the same as doing it.

Just think about all the TV rally fans who drink Red Bull and play
rally video games.... They are true rallyists, because they
believe the corporate bullshit.

U.S. rally was killed by the Spitzner proposal of 1998. Thanks Kurt.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2008 11:52AM by Jens.

No. It's not. A rally club should do something other than drink beer, race scooters, and get the swat team called to the shop when the boys get together alone.

I think the main goals of a rally club should be, organizing stage rallies, promoting stage rally, combining efforts for travel, towing, working on cars, etc. Going to a rallycross and destroying some cones in order to find new people that are interested in making the step up is important. Competing in them for fun and exposure is an added benefit.

---

Grant Hughes

Well fuck you then.

Why do you post? Anywhere? Seriously, I want to know what you get out of this Jens. Do you get some sort of satisfaction from being a complete asshole all the time? No one likes or respects you. You're a disease on the rallying community.

BTW if you didn't have the n00b settings on, all the posts would appear in a row and not in the weird format you're seeing, brainiac.

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A rally club should do something
> other than drink beer, race scooters, and get the
> swat team called to the shop when the boys get
> together alone.


Drinking and "boys get together alone" without chicks? Sounds like queer pedophilia :-)

Next you'll be talking about rallying while eating granola and drinking "energy drinks".

Dear God.... just kill me now!

gilbrock Wrote:
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> Well fuck you then.

Awww.. did I hurt your feelings? Tough.


> Why do you post?

To piss you off.


> Seriously, I want to know what you get out of this Jens.

Seriously, I want to know how you can be so thin-skinned.


> No one likes or respects you.

No one likes me? Boo hoo... I'm gonna go eat a can of worms.


> You're a disease on the rallying community.

I wish.



> BTW if you didn't have the n00b settings on....

I like the settings I have. You posted the way I wanted this time, didn't you?
You always do what you're told? Typical New World Order rallyist. Sieg Heil, ya goose-steppin' Nazi.

Jens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> U.S. rally was killed by the Spitzner proposal of
> 1998. Thanks Kurt.
>

ok, so for someone who showed up in 99 where can I find info about this demonic Spitzner proposal of 1998? I'm too lazy to use the search feature this morning.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2008 12:35PM by Eddie Fiorelli.

Eddie Fiorelli Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jens Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > U.S. rally was killed by the Spitzner
> proposal of
> > 1998. Thanks Kurt.
> >
>
> ok, so for someone who showed up in 99 where can I
> find info about this demonic Spitzner proposal of
> 1998? I'm too lazy to use the search feature this
> morning.


I don't know. If you find it post it or e-mail it to me. I want to
read it again for laughs. It goes on about properly painted trailers,
etc, etc.

If my memory is correct it came out in the fall of 1998 (maybe was
part of an SCCA meeting or something like that). It wasn't
titled "The Spitzner Proposal", but he wrote it.

Later (2 or 3 years???) there was the "Vision Statement" which was
good for a few laughs.

Have fun looking. Send them to me. I need a good laugh today.

Alright, Jens. Back on yer meds.

Jon, I take it you are Up2 over there on Specialstage?

Welcome.

Look, there is NOTHING WRONG with rallycross. I have entered a few, along with something very similar...ice trials. (You see, here in MI, we wait till the Saginaw Bay freezes over and actually drive out onto Lake Huron and set up a rallycross/autox type track on the frozen lake.) I've also entered a few autocrosses.

They are fun. Sometimes they are a good excuse to go mingle with other people who are interested in rally or other forms of motorsport. You get to flog your car legally, even if only in 2nd gear, and it is a good time.

The question is, "Is it the BEST way or SHORTEST PATH to becoming a proficient rally driver?" In fact, is it even very useful for teaching the skills needed?

Think of the skills involved. It IS something you do in your car, so that is a plus...becoming more acclamated to driving your car in anger. You can learn something about some rally related techniques like low-speed left foot braking and hand braking.

But beyond that, rally is a game of confidence. If you watch a rally, you see nearly everyone but the first couple cars in each class lift significantly before a corner, coast up, and then drop the hammer trying to make up for their lack of confidence by throwing dirt everywhere. (Heck, I've been guilty of in myself...moreso when I don't get seat time.) The front runners barely lift, carry lots of speed thru the corner...and if they're caught by something unexpected, they (seemingly miraculously) recover usually with a combination of throttle, brake, minimal steering input, and cool nerves.

The difference is confidence. The latter driver KNOWS he can handle whatever is on the backside of that turn. The former driver is afraid of what he can't see.

Gaining this kind of confidence takes a LOT of seat time. Travis and Ken and CPD and others rent out TeamO's for many weekends a year to get the seat time and, hence, the confidence. If you don't have the resources to keep a rally car prepped for practice along with all the rallies you want to do and to cover travel, car support, and track rental fees, you have to find other means to get this confidence. And rallycross, while fun and full of great people with a common interest in rallying, won't provide you with the seat time necessary.

Someone made the analagy on the other thread about baseball. Yes, kids climb the ladder from little league, to HS, to Minors, to Majors. But the whole time they are PLAYING BASEBALL and learning about the ENTIRE GAME. They are not just hitting the batting cages til they are 18 and expecting it to teach them all the skills and confidence needed for MLB!

So you need to FIND your own way of getting the confidence and the experience necessary. Did Tanner do it by running rallycrosses? Or (gasp) drifing? No, he went to work for nickels at the Bridgestone Winter Driving School. And guess what MJ is doing this year? They found a way to get what they feel they need to be competitive in their respective classes...and they are doing it in cars.

I think there are more economical ways. Karts and dirt bikes are what I preach, because they are what I know, and I know the difference in confidence I have in a rally car the weekend after a good hard trailride versus when I haven't ridden in a while.

Back to baseball. Do you think that a guy will make it to the majors by falling in love with the game, then going home and whittling his own bat and hitting the cages? Of course not. They TRAIN with strength training, aerobic exercise, and play games.

So why would a rallyist progress to the top just because he is building a car (whittling a bat) and does rallycross (batting cages)? He has to find his own way to TRAIN (assuming he doesn't have the resources to beat up rally cars on a weekly or semiweekly basis) and enter events. Rallycross can be a part of that training. Or even better yet, finding a suitable private road and doing proper testing and training on your time, not on the schedule of a rallycross.

One of my goals for 2008 is to do more training. And it is a LOT cheaper than entering events. Trailriding, kart schools, and private rally car testing/practice (testing and practice are not the same thing. One improves the car and the other improves the driver. Sure, for most of us they overlap, but have your goals in mind before getting there).

Will my training make me as fast as a guy who spends 100 days a year in a rally car? No. But it's a solution that is as good as I have found for my economical situation, and it is not only more beneficial than rallycross, it is a heckuva lot cheaper.

Hope this clears up the misunderstanding re: rallycross. I have nothing against it. It just isn't the best use of my time.

Flame away.

---

Lurch
Eric Burmeister
The west coast...of Michigan



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2008 02:18PM by Lurch.

Yep, ran it this year.

---

RichardM

Lurch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Alright, Jens. Back on yer meds.

The Jolly Green Giant (musta been from steriods) is telling
me to get back on my meds?



> Someone made the analagy on the other thread about
> baseball. .....

> Back to baseball. Do you think that a guy will
> make it to the majors by falling in love with the
> game, then going home and whittling his own bat.....


LOL!!!


Lurch, you monster, GM outta give you a super-charged, turbo'd,
Super Hummer to grind up those over-priced mommymobile Subarus.

But then there are all the left-over Spitzner disciples that have
yet to die off. I might outlive them, but I'm not overly
encouraged about that. Oh well... rallying was fun... in the 1970's.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2008 02:02PM by Jens.

Oh man, Eric, quit talking about karts...I'm so tempted to get back into it and my wife would kkkiiiillllllllllll me... Although I could use my team o-neil school budget to buy a nice setup....hmm.........

Eddie, I'd suggest doing Tim's school first. Then start saving again and get that kart to help you maintain yer sharpness.

---

Lurch
Eric Burmeister
The west coast...of Michigan

I don't see why so many people hate rallyX so much.

Sure, it's not stage rally. So what?

It's also a LOT easier to find a field somewhere in the country that someone will let you use to pound the shit out of a car in than it is to try to convince local municipal, county, and state governments to repeal the decades-old statutes specifically forbidding any type of motor racing on public roads.


so, go find an '88 Buick Electra Estate (for free), put on some 30-year-old bias-ply truck recaps (for free), and pound the shit out of the car for the cost of 25 bucks entry fee, a few quarts of oil, and ten gallons of gas.

It's obviously not stage rally, but it IS seat time flogging a vehicle to (and beyond) its breaking point, and grinning ear to ear the entire time. To me, motorsports are for fun, not profit. It sometimes takes a lot of work and cash to prepare a vehicle for that fun, but in the end, for most it is only a hobby, not a vocation.

I think that at times it may very well be an elitist attitude that makes for the lack of involvement in the sport. Saying that some versions of motorsport (rallyx, autox, tarmac road racing, for example) are 'lame' or 'not worth the effort', and conveying that attitude to the people who have only those versions in their area may well just make them say, "Screw those rally guys. It might be fun, but I don't want to hang out with a bunch of assholes over the weekend."

--sarge

---

---** To be in compliance with the Anarchy **---
Jorden R. Kleier
Baraboo, Wisconsin, USA
1990 Mazdog Protege 4WD
1973