The cost of stage notes.

Bill Beers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey John,
>
> I think it has less to do with naughty behavior on
> behalf of the rally crews, and more to do with
> stickered/numbered cars on the rally roads for an
> extra day, (and how the local public perceives
> this.)
>
> -Bill

Sure but how do we fight mis-perceptions? By driving along at whatever, stopping starting , dropping in at gas stations all in civilian clothes, being the nice guys most of us are in real life.

Then if some local is bitching about "them thar race cars zooming around!!" other locals might just speak up and say "Well shit Clem I saw them before the event and theys wuz jest puttering down the road, stopping and checking out sjunk'n'stuff all polite like so why don't you quit yer whining there Clem"

We must stop cowering over mis-perceptions like "damage to the...."

Derek says it all the time "Reality wins" but reality has to be consistantly presented and that perception reinforced or the mis-perceptions win.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

In Western Canada we allow rally cars on recce. We also fine bad behavior and list recce marshals as 'judges of fact' in the supps.

(the above is fact based on SOP in Western Canada. What follows is observational comentary and and informed opinion.)

That said, most teams make the effort to recce in something other than their competition cars for a number of really really good reasons.

- a couple of years ago two teams had tehir rally cars stranded in the woods after a competitor came sliding downhill at them in super slippy conditions (even though we made it through on gravels)

- Even the WRC recce cars, while caged and GrpN prepared, run softer suspension settings for a more comfortable and smoother ride. Writing notes on a gravel set-up is a recipe for disaster.

As for 'reality wins' ... not when you are dealing with governments.
Elected officials live or die on public perception, not reality.

We can run competition cars out here because the stages are out in the middle of nowhere and we don't go through people's backyards. Even a recent TSD with nothing but numbers on the windows (and a notice of the event being sent to the RCMP covering the area) raised accusations of 'street racing.')

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2009 12:32PM by Morison.

"WE'RE NOT WORTHY!!!"

Warning, More dead horse bone grinding here! Ya like that smell, do ya, then read on. Rallys (as I knew them) used to be one day events (Saturday) with the day or night (Friday) before used for registration, scrutineering, fraternizing and drinking. Now there tends to be more events with stages run on 2 days, or even three. And recce adds another day or two. Now you need to take most of a week off work, instead of Friday to participate. And now events need workers on weekdays, too. Those positions have to be tough to fill. I have a hard time finding volunteer crew to help at an event if they need to take time off from work. I used to have a crew chief who would work all day Friday, hop in the car, take some trucker's little friends and show up to drive the van Saturday morning. Can't do that much, now.

I think the way things are going is making a lot more people "not worthy".

---

Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

Morison Wrote:
--
> As for 'reality wins' ... not when you are dealing
> with governments.
> Elected officials live or die on public
> perception, not reality.
>
> We can run competition cars out here because the
> stages are out in the middle of nowhere and we
> don't go through people's backyards. Even a recent
> TSD with nothing but numbers on the windows (and a
> notice of the event being sent to the RCMP
> covering the area) raised accusations of 'street
> racing.')

And since it isd incumbent on us to above all maintain good relations with the LAW and by and large we do, don't you think that the RCMP told the complainers "Relax---it's just a little "Fun run" TIMED TSD event"?

Local law enforcement doesn't want BOTHERS, and if we're nicer than the complainers then the complainers are "the bother".

Point is that reality should weigh something.
>
>
>
>
>
> Edited 2 times. Last edit at May 18, 2009 by
> Morison.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
>...don't you think that the RCMP told
> the complainers "Relax---it's just a little "Fun
> run" TIMED TSD event"?

There's a longer story to this one that involves a checkpointer witnessing a single vehicle rollover and then rendering first aid to the lone occupant of the car. Actually I KNOW that the RCMP got argumentative and accusitory with that checkpointer until the scope of the event was explained and the cop was told that the event details had been sent to his detatchment.

It so happened that the start of the first regularity was about 3 miles down the road so traffic saw the cars with numbers and assumed one of the street racers ran this guy off the road.

> Local law enforcement doesn't want BOTHERS, and
> if we're nicer than the complainers then the
> complainers are "the bother".

Absolutely. But law enforcement doesn't control road permissions. In Canada, at least, that is typically in the hands of a bureaucrat and not an elected official. I think the states are a bit different in many cases but I could be wrong.

> Point is that reality should weigh something.

Good luck with that.
Perception wins over reality more often than not, particularly when working in the realm of politics.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

from the Rally America 2009 Oregon Trails event story:

"It was the first U.S. podium for Mancin and Wislawski, who have proven at this event that they can match the pace of Rally America’s top drivers. Mancin said late Sunday that racing with the Jemba system of notes – as is typical in this championship – is something that has taken some getting used to. This is the first full season in the series for the Polish duo, who are accustomed to making their own pace notes from scratch."

Back when Jemba notes were new to RA, I asked Tim O'Neil, after STPR, what he thought of the notes and he said something like "oh yeah we need notes, just not those notes".

---

Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

tedm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> from the Rally America 2009 Oregon Trails event
> story:
>
> "It was the first U.S. podium for Mancin and
> Wislawski, who have proven at this event that they
> can match the pace of Rally America’s top drivers.
> Mancin said late Sunday that racing with the Jemba
> system of notes – as is typical in this
> championship – is something that has taken some
> getting used to. This is the first full season in
> the series for the Polish duo, who are accustomed
> to making their own pace notes from scratch."

> Ted Mendham
> www.rensport.net

I'm wondering if they found the recce DVD useful to use with their Jemba notes.