Dual sport bikes

If you want a <400cc four stroker, the new new Yammie WR250R is the one to have. Much higher spec than the KLX250S.

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Christian Edstrom
New York, NY
Age: 30

Hey guys, any opinions on Hondae ZR400s?

Eli

gilbrock Wrote:
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> Hey guys, any opinions on Hondae ZR400s?
>
> Eli


Dare not say anything about bikes, don't want to get banned here!! (Wink)

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

haha ouch!!

Actually I prostrate myself before thee and your enduro/bike knowledge, and others here, including Anders.

I would love to get more insight - thinking about dipping a toe into RallyMoto if my Subaru keeps blowing up (2nd engine rebuild in 6 months).

Before long, rally will be all moto at the rate we're going.

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Grant Hughes

gilbrock Wrote:
> Actually I prostrate myself before thee and your
> enduro/bike knowledge, and others here, including
> Anders.
>
> I would love to get more insight - thinking about
> dipping a toe into RallyMoto if my Subaru keeps
> blowing up (2nd engine rebuild in 6 months).

HA! Yeah, ask me, the guy who's bike experience consists of taking the MSF course in a parking lot for two days. (Granted, I did win the test, but still... )

All (relevant) info I know about bikes/RallyMoto(tm) is this:
1) way cheaper - fewer tools, lower entry cost, towing is nothing, fewer parts, no notes, and you can put three bikes on a $250 trailer that you tow with your wife's minivan
2) stock bikes are competitive. prep consists of about two zip ties for a triangle and a bolt for a scroll reader.
3) around 500-650 seems to be "the zone" as far as size of the most competitive bikes, although 450s and 1200s are also in the top three... so rider makes much more difference than displacement
4) no more fussy codrivers (but no one to do all your math for you, either!)

Cheers,
Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

gilbrock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> haha ouch!!
Teee hee!
>
> Actually I prostrate myself before thee and your
> enduro/bike knowledge, and others here, including
> Anders.

Actually bikes are easier than cars especially single cylinder dirt bikes, they're nothing but engine, tranny suspension.
Gawd damn cars every single part in the whole car is suspect.
'Specially if you were spoiled by years of real 1st class moto-cross bike experience.
>
> I would love to get more insight - thinking about
> dipping a toe into RallyMoto if my Subaru keeps
> blowing up (2nd engine rebuild in 6 months).

To quote the President of Mars in the epic film "Mars Attacks":
ACK!!!

OK but first please what the hell are you doing in the motors and what is the failure?
Ya know I hain't huge fan of the construction of the Subie motor, it's flimsy inside with a crap crank and wussified rods and cast pistons stock, but STILL they generally work (The motor I built for Dave Hintz won him a PNW Region Title---then broke!)

So come on spill it here where you won't get a buncha wannbes suggesting what you did or should do.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Not a complete rebuild in either case, but if it's engine related and costs me over $1,000, I consider it a rebuild. hehe

1. Holed a radiator (on the freeway..WTF), and lost the head gasket in January - heads had to be rebuilt

2. Then the COMPLETE FUCKING HACK ( www.subarurepair.net ) who rebuilt the engine likely overtorqued the cam gear (with an impact wrench we surmise) and it broke while driving, fucking up my newly re-done heads. Engine was a donor but not involved in an accident that would have compromised the cam gear (which is a more likely occurance due to its location) Thankfully,bottom end was ok. Rebuilt head with new valves and put in APR head studs. I should have bit the bullet and put in some new forged pistons but I would LIKE to be afford at least one entry fee this year. With my luck I'll be back inside the engine again soon and can do it then.

What's funny is there was only about 300 miles of use, (mostly on the road getting to and from these shops) between rebuilds.


OK back to a topic that doesn't get me pissed:

So as far as getting wet in RallyMoto, would you suggest a simple air-cooled thumper or ??

Perhaps someone who's running a rally event should open the stages up to a single class of street legal dual sports, running DOT approved tires.

Call it "Rally Moto" or something. It would certainly make it more affordable and bring alot more "teams" to events.

gilbrock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not a complete rebuild in either case, but if it's
> engine related and costs me over $1,000, I
> consider it a rebuild. hehe


Ooooh, OK.
I call REBUILDS rebuilds, less than that I say "freshen 'er up"
>
> 1. Holed a radiator (on the freeway..WTF), and
> lost the head gasket in January - heads had to be
> rebuilt
>
> 2. Then the COMPLETE FUCKING HACK (
> www.subarurepair.net ) who rebuilt the engine
> likely overtorqued the cam gear (with an impact
> wrench we surmise) and it broke while driving,
> fucking up my newly re-done heads. Engine was a
> donor but not involved in an accident that would
> have compromised the cam gear (which is a more
> likely occurance due to its location)

Was it the 4 cam motor? Some of those damn things use old bakelite ciggarette ashtrays that they cut some grooves in an call it a cam wheel.
I broke one on the Par Richard motor I build long ago by placing it on the bench and it sat on top or a ratchet, rolled off the ratchet, dropped the height of a fuckin ratchet HANDLE and cracked a hunk of it which came off in my fingers when I looked at it.
Screwy thing is the usaed metal on other motors. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
Had to eat that one myself.

> Thankfully,bottom end was ok. Rebuilt head with
> new valves and put in APR head studs. I should
> have bit the bullet and put in some new forged
> pistons but I would LIKE to be afford at least one
> entry fee this year. With my luck I'll be back
> inside the engine again soon and can do it then.

Yeah and if you want some NICER pistons, pistons with nice ROUND dishes with NICE ROUND radius to the top and bottom of the dish and MORE MEAT in the edge of the piston for MORE STRENGTH, then talk to somebody out of the Subie "in crowd".
(PS was doing a 4 hour layover in Narita and there was 1 , that's ONE magazine stand and all the good words ass Jap Porn was sealed up in bags and so since i could look at piccies of schoolgirls with short skirts and big boobs getting molest by creatures with LOTS OF TENTACLES, I glanced in a Japanese Subie Beat Off Book, and you know, its 400 pages of Subie doo dads and shit but there was 1 FEATURE showing the INRENALS of a Subie WRC engine.

First thing I notice was a forged steel crank a lot heftier than stock. Looked like from Farndon in UK.
Next was the piston crowns looked like crowns like every other turbo motor I've seen since 1978----a round dish rather than the truly BEEEEEZARRE square "dish" in the Subie junk I've seen OEM
>
> What's funny is there was only about 300 miles of
> use, (mostly on the road getting to and from these
> shops) between rebuilds.
>
>
> OK back to a topic that doesn't get me pissed:
>
> So as far as getting wet in RallyMoto, would you
> suggest a simple air-cooled thumper or ??

I would think: USED, LIGHT, and not to wrorry at all about getting a "big" motor.

Realistically are you worried if it won't do 120?
Is 100 MPH good enough?
Then just get a smaller motor in a handier bike and gear it right.

It's particularly true with bikes but also NA cars: What the motor doesn't make for ft/lbs, the final drive does.

Maybe think about Yamaha 420.No major faults that I know of, they're quick, popular and theres junk for them. Good basic seating position, good brakes and I hear they do hot re-starts pretty good.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Those are all good tips John, thanks. It is the 4 cam motor, you're right, the cam gear really does look and feel like an ashtray! And those magazines are pure comedy with both car and human porn in them. Reading from the back is a challenge for me though....hehe

About Rallymoto - I'm simply looking for durable, easy to work on, and comfortable bike to start. I'm a pretty big boy and don't need to go fast (yet), so anything that keeps me out there learning is perfectly fine. I found plenty of nice used (low hour) XR400s for around $2-3K. That's about the price of gas and hotels for Idaho (if our engine didn't take a dump of course).

I'll look into that Yamaha. I see what you wrote about hot restarts, looks like the Honda has a fuel blowout feature (or something more cleverly named) that aids in that...pretty cool.

Eli

morten3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

.....
> First I test rode the Suzuki DRZ400 SM (super moto) which is fun for around town
> and I had planned on just getting an extra set of rims with trail tires. It was a
> super fun bike, but with only 28HP and a top speed of just over 120KM/H it wasn't
> very suitable for the commute to the trails in my neck of the woods.

With mine never had problems of doing at least 140km/hr on asphalt and that was stock before I changed stuff on it.

> I settled on the BMW 650 X Country which is a single with 53HP and 44 lb./ft. of
> torque. It's top speed is 165 KM/h. The Canadian MSRP is $8200 and the DRZ400 is
> $7400. The BMW is much more bike and the 2007 model year has the Austrian built
> rotax and is built by Aprelia in Italy......

BMW is definately not for tight trails (single track stuff), fire roads maybe??? and Grant ws saying trails and some street riding not the other way around.
As for the price on a DRZ I just helped a friend buy a new 2008 DRZ400S for $6280.00 on the road including 8% Ontario tax and 5% GST, and they are defiantely cheaper in the US. Personaly I would get a 2-3 year old one for less than $4K in mint condition if I was starting out.

> Incidently it get's better milage than the DRZ 400, has more power, more torque,
> and is all around more versatile.

DRZ has a very small tank for a Dual Sport, my old one with an aftrmarket tank would get close to 250 miles to a tank of hard riding through the woods.

Anyway you are comparing apples to oranges when you compare a DRZ and the BMW completely different bikes for different uses.


Anders Green Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm in the process of signing papers on a
>
>
>
> and should take deliver either at RWV or shortly
> thereafter.
>
> Anders
>
> Raleigh, NC
> Impreza H6 3.0

Anders that is a very nice piece of kit. When I was getting my new bike it was between that and the KTM that I eventualy got. The Husq dealer was too far (almost 5hrs) and I got a great deal on my KTM450 and 15 min from my house to dealer for p-up.

You will enjoy that bike, just take it easy as till you get use to it as it will definately bite a novice rider if the wrist is twisted without caution.


edit for fucking spelling mistakes....all over the fucking reply, fuck.....

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...If you don't go off at least once a season you are not trying hard enough...



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2008 09:06PM by GB.

Eli, spoke to my friend yesterday. His was a 400 Yamadog, 98 or 99 to like 00.
He said to the questions "Any problems?" Well his he got in 00 or 01, either flatracked it or then Super Motard-ed it HARD spring thru fall of every year since then. So reliable that he got sloppy checking fluids, got some water in the oil (condensation up here is bad) and chewed up a cam journal this summer.

We were both in agreement that since bikes are physical, regardless of how buff-u-lar you are, thinking of the realistic top speed vs hard acceleration, that a lighter nimbler bike with GOOD brakes, geared for around 100 mph and with "Motard" style suspension (shortened moto-cross) and dirt track type tyres (for packed dirt/gravel) or knobbies (sand), would allow a guy to really hammer the bike out of corners, BRAKE--which is the way you beat guys---trained monkeys, REPUBLICANS even can be taught to twist the throttle ON--- HARD for corners and pitch it sideways if conditions allowed, would be way better than as he initially began saying "Wull---if you wanted to hit 140 on the straights then a big 900....."

I said I don't think the need to rocket to ONE FUCKING FORTY was such a burning need.

He giggled and sorta shook him self and gathered his thoughts, did the little perv laugh--heh heh, then answered more thoughtfully.

It's sort of similar thought to "do I really need a $20,000 restrictor optimized Sububishi or Mitsubura motor(which gets shifted at barely half throtle by 90% of the guys) or a more modest motor in size that YOU wring a bit harder.

Bear in mind that over a 30 year period in amateur moto-cross that the class with the highest percentage of guys REALLY USING THE MOTOR FULLY was 125cc class, the class with the next highest % was 250, and the worldwide consistently predicable
highest percentage of guys going buuuuh-wa- bding ding ding ding---ba ba bawahhhhh, ding ding ding ding ding ba wah ding ding ding.... little squirts, then throttle off and coast towards corners--was "Open" class.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
> Bear in mind that over a 30 year period in amateur
> moto-cross that the class with the highest
> percentage of guys REALLY USING THE MOTOR FULLY
> was 125cc class, the class with the next highest %
> was 250, and the worldwide consistently predicable
>
> highest percentage of guys going buuuuh-wa- bding
> ding ding ding---ba ba bawahhhhh, ding ding ding
> ding ding ba wah ding ding ding.... little
> squirts, then throttle off and coast towards
> corners--was "Open" class.


I say this with the highest respect John, it's posts like these that make me really love this forum. I almost pissed myself reading it.
SS.com is missing out...

Bob

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Opel is a 4-letter word...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10498579@N07/sets/

JVL

Completely agree with you, that is what I was trying to convey to morten3.

My old DRZ a '00 model had close to 15k KM on it when I sold it this spring to buy the new toy (KTM). Most of that riding was off road in hare scrambles and dual sport GPS events through some of the most remote areas of Ontario, Quebec and US. Few time that I did take it on the asphalt when new & without modifications it could hit 140 without problems. Once I modified it (2 months after purchase) it wouldn't even come close to 120, but man would it ever accelerate. First things changed were the front & rear spockets with the Motocross stuff and the second was the suspenssion was changed out to the enduro stuff. Last was the motor to gain a little more bottom end.

When I went shopping for the new bike I looked at the KTM and the Husq stuff, like I said Husq was just too far and the motors for me were a little on the bigger end than what I wanted. I tried the KTM530 and there was just no need for it for me I settled for the 450. Since getting it I changed out the front & rears again with the 450 enduro stuff, susspension was OK and on the motor side, re-jetted the carb (liked running hot), cleaned out the restrictive exaust, and removed the charcoal canister.

Last weekend went riding with a few buddies near the area of the Tall Pines rally just north of Bancroft when we came out onto an old railroad bed (no tracks, just a trail now) and we scooted along it pretty quick I must tell you that I even scared the shit out of myself. Glanced down on the speedo and noticed that I was doing 112 KM/hr on gravel in 6th gear with only 1/3 of the throttle on it, so there was a lot more room than that, but the track was only about 6ft wide and you could not see around some of the bushes and overgrowth and my bike is LOUD so smart thing wsa to back off a bit

Oh most of my riding experience as a kid and teen came from 125 & 250 stuff, rode them for almost 10years then went away from bikes until '95 when I bought a used Yamaha XT350 that was modified heavily and then to the DRZ in '00 and now the new baby.

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...If you don't go off at least once a season you are not trying hard enough...