Interesting post and link to Gardemeister who in his real jobs is a factory Suzuki driver.
Now I think some of you think I'm a little crazy when I say THOSE GpF guys are FAST, and I suggest that even the "fastest" here are not-so-fast even when compared to good GroupF guys.

Here:
"ipa69


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Default 21st Jul 08, 09:12
There is a nice video of Toni Gardemeister in group F BMW from OK-Autoralli, he did SS4 (9.44km) only 10 seconds slower than Sordo in Citroen!
http://www.tonigardemeister.com/uutiset.php "

Whaddya think of that?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Over 1 second per K, considering Sordo had already one minute lead and was (most likely) under strict orders to keep the car in one piece for NesteRF while continuing the testing the team was there for - and let's say Toni was driving 100% in a car that after all is an ex works BMW Italy car, 300bhp/1100kilos, in stages he has done multiple times, over 1 second per K is about right.

As far as saying who is fast or not, come on John, put that keyboard away, go find that helmet you have saved somewhere and join all of us out there.

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www.alexgelsomino.com

> As far as saying who is fast or not, come on John,
> put that keyboard away, go find that helmet you
> have saved somewhere and join all of us out there.

I don't think any sanctioning body accepts Snell 85 anymore.

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Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

flatovercrest Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Over 1 second per K, considering Sordo had already
> one minute lead and was (most likely) under strict
> orders to keep the car in one piece for NesteRF
> while continuing the testing the team was there
> for - and let's say Toni was driving 100% in a car
> that after all is an ex works BMW Italy car,
> 300bhp/1100kilos, in stages he has done multiple
> times, over 1 second per K is about right.

Why make that set of assumptions? Because all that is just idle speculation.
Why not assume Sordo was deaf and didn't hear any instructions ( I mean I know when its noisy, after being around noisy race engines since 1969, I am just a bit sordo too.)
Why not assume: since this event doesn't count toward anything important, then pobre Sordito get's let off the leash a bit to really see how fast he can go in Finalnd?
Why not assume Gardemeister is, in this car, since it's his personal car, maybe he's just playing at 85% or so, again because his real job is to drive a WRC car, and maybe he just wants to have FUN. At least I base that presumption on interviews and vids where he's said as much.
Maybe having done the stage, as you presume, he's a good deal relaxed on it and not going "max attack" because he doesn't have to-----don't you drive less aggressively---maybe faster but less aggressively on stages you've driven before?

So in an equally plausible set of wild out the ass guesses one could draw a conclusion that the speed of some of the top Group F cars is pretty damn close---and that was the whole point---- to the speeds that the pretty damn good guy currently in 5th place in the WRC can drive his 1250kg, gawd knows what for ft/lbs at 3500 rpm absolute tip top factory rally car..


And this bit of knowledge for THE BOYS HERE who are spending their own money to TRY and compete should put into perspective (and let me help you by putting some emphasis on it so at least those guys get the point---they are who this message, and indeed who this whole forum is devoted to, eh?) was intended to show that even against a currently dominant WRC drive by a pretty good driver, a well built simpler 2wd car CAN COMPETE FAIRLY WELL----therefore in an infinitely slower field such as oh lets say North American stage rally, then there is no reason that they, the guys who this forum is aimed at, should concede before the battle is begun that they have no chance of high overall placings.

Because I don't think you would suggest that the speed of the so called "pointy end of the stick" in North America is anywhere in the same hour as Sordito.(and so we can, being reasonable men with no axes to grind, no agendas to push, conclude at least some simple 2wd RWD Finnish cars ARE HOURS FASTER THAN ANYTHING HERE.)
Or maybe it's you who ma stai scherzando, o state fumando l'erbaccia.
Peu t'etre?

>
> As far as saying who is fast or not, come on John,
> put that keyboard away, go find that helmet you
> have saved somewhere and join all of us out there.

You know I'm not a rich guy like you are Alex, and I spent virtually every hour of my life from sometime in 1969 to who the fuck knows when and every dollar, pound krona, DMark Franc and Rand I ever made---and I delayed things like finishing college and buying a house and starting a family, because IN CASE YOU HAVEN"T NOTICED IN ALL THE FUCKING SITTING IN THAT OTHER SIDE OVER THERE that you've done OWNING and BUILDING and TRYING TO TOW and paying ALL THE COSTS has always been really expensive for stupid cars, and maybe sitting there in your current gig you haven't noticed that EVERYTHING HAS SKYROCKETED to double and quaddruple or more the costs of things last time I paid to do a National
Did yopu notice that, Alex?
Is all this cost making a dent in YOUR ability to live and do whatever work it you do? (What do you do for your "day job"?)

Well it has for me especially now that I've bought a house, gotten married, had two kids and have invested a lot of time building things so that the guys who pay for shit themselves can have some high quality shit to go rallying.
In other words, after 30+ years of competition at my own expense, racing has taken a seat at the back of the bus.

Capisca? O siete sordo pure?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> www.alexgelsomino.com

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

flatovercrest Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>
> As far as saying who is fast or not, come on John,
> put that keyboard away, go find that helmet you
> have saved somewhere and join all of us out there.
>
>
What has that got to do with anything? What has that got to do with this topic? Why do you and others continue to try to discount what JVL says because he hasn't driven in a rally in years? It makes no sense. It makes you look petty. It weakens your argument. I haven't driven in a rally in years and nobody, including you, has ever tried to take me down a notch because of it. Why is that? This holds true for plenty of other people who contribute here and the other place. Why does a currently active competition license seem to be a prerequesite to having an opinion or sharing knowledge for some people? It's a weak tactic and we all see through it so just give it a rest already, OK?

Even if Sordo is putting along, 10 seconds off a WRC stage time is freeking insane fast....I was lucky to be 10 seconds PER MILE off the top open cars in the old heap.

did some research...Sordo set the TOP O/A stage time for that stage out of all of the classes for that stage. Gardemeister is seventh place O/A for the stage, rediculous, just watch the video, awesome commitment, wicked speed, great control, makes me want to quit he is that good.

Sordo Gardermeister DIFF
EK1 8:43.8 9:30.7 46.9/18.73KM 2.5sec/km
EK2 2:39.4 2:58.1 18.7/ 5.80KM 3.2sec/km
EK3 2:44.3 3:07.1 22.8/ 4.40KM 5.2sec/km
EK4 4:40.7 4:50.8 10.1/ 9.44KM 1.1sec/km
EK5 8:47.3 9:22.5 45.2/18.34KM 2.5sec/km
EK6 5:51.2 6:15.2 24.0/11.43KM 2.1sec/km
EK7 8:47.9 9:28.6 30.7/18.73KM 1.6sec/km

Not to talk smack at all alex, but this is super impressive 2wd action, despite it being a current WRC driver.

that car is neat too.....now to find some fwd cars taking on top times.....

---

-Tom
DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks
Spitfire EFI | Product Apparel | JVAB Imports | NLS | AP Tuning | USRT

Add us on Facebook | Next Event: 2013 Olympus Rally June 22-23 Olympia, WA

Watching Gardemeister's in-car in his 'for play' BMW gives me that itch to git out there and practice.....

We need to get out there and play guys.

Tom how goes the next Shark-toothed ride? I need you to keep me honest. We need more guys like you... Vance... Hartman... Bottles to keep it interesting.

Derek hows about you doing something fun and rear-drive?
I've got several ways to make a Volvo into something really amusing here at the house along with shells to build something with.

Also..... Rumor has it that Karl's Schoolbus is available for adoption; needing things that would be pretty easy to rectify.

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JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

John L what is your schedule next year? lets jut roll out to the same events all year so we can actually go race 2wd all year long?!??

My start of the year will look something like this:

Doo Wops
Olympus
Oregon Trail

The next car WILL be out for Doo Wops...hopefully with some kind of practice beforehand so we can get used to everything, if not we'll have a slow day one...Hartmann lives down the road from me here, I'm going to start rattling his cage...get Nate Tennis out...good times, real RACING.

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-Tom
DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks
Spitfire EFI | Product Apparel | JVAB Imports | NLS | AP Tuning | USRT

Add us on Facebook | Next Event: 2013 Olympus Rally June 22-23 Olympia, WA

Not to change topics but hasnt Dani made more success in WRC in 5 years than Toni in 10+?

On the other hand that was some mad skillz to cruise at those speeds.

WRC is soft these days compared to 98-02 or 03

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-Mark
www.nocoastmotorsports.net

Cosworth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not to change topics but hasnt Dani made more
> success in WRC in 5 years than Toni in 10+?
>
> On the other hand that was some mad skillz to
> cruise at those speeds.

Toni is one of the most underrated drivers in WRC for the last 10 years ... Driving a Skoda will do that to you.....

Toni rocks

Haztoys Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Toni is one of the most underrated drivers in WRC
> for the last 10 years ... Driving a Skoda will do
> that to you.....
>
> Toni rocks


And then a Suzuki!

---

Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

Tom we will see what funds, time and life allow next year.

I'm hoping to do Doo-Wops, Olympus, Idaho, Pacific Forest and Wild West.

Lets see just how much of this I can manage.

Talk Hartman into partaking. He is always fast.

---

JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

Fahk yea! Great vid!

That's pretty much what it looks like from inside my 510. You know, only slower and with a lot more flailing around...

I'd love to see some video from the outside. You don't get to see top-level guys in rear-drive cars much these days.

-Dave

hudson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Haztoys Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Toni is one of the most underrated drivers
> in WRC
> > for the last 10 years ... Driving a Skoda
> will do
> > that to you.....
> >
> > Toni rocks
>
>
> And then a Suzuki!
>
>
>
> Andrew McNally
> Hamilton ON
> 28

Now ,Now ..Were not sure were this Suzuki ride will go ...But I'm a ToniG fan ...Have a VCR video of him in the Middle East running a rally that was in a town with houses all over ...Just nuts..