FACT: Rally as a sport worldwide is dying

We need a popcorn eating smiley in this forum.

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-Brian



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2008 02:07AM by Brian Johnson.

Brian Johnson Wrote:
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> We need a popcorn eating smiley in this forum.
>
> -Brian Johnson.

lol, I agree.

Maverick Wrote:
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> That is basically what I meant. If guys think
> light-bars, rally tires, and awd off-road cars are
> cool then the more likely sponsorship will be for
> "real" rally guys. Also if it is culturally cool
> then people will buy merchandise that may not be
> actual rally parts but maybe t-shirts n the like.
> Fanboys who buy stuff cause they like to watch it.
> They may not participate but they buy shit so
> companies will invest more into the sport. Seeing
> companies like DC, Monster, Rockstar, Redbull, and
> the like gives me hope. Those companies have
> nothing directly to do with rally but they pay for
> guys to race and popularize the sport with other
> cultures. Shit like the X-Games will help with the
> sport for sure. The "purest" in rally will hate it
> but those are the guys who kill stuff anyway.
> Keeping it the same not allowing it to change to
> become more popular. If it never catches on, there
> will always be grassroots racing so you have
> nothing to worry about if you want to spend
> thousands on racing each year.

I get your point, but this will keep costs the same or raise them for the average Joe. If monster or DC etc was backing a 1980 whatever then I would agree 100%.

What does Joe P Racer get out of big corporate backed subarus in the field?

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Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

Supposedly more money creating stability for the sport along with more new-car entires....hmmm, when does that last part happen again?

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-Tom
DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks
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Add us on Facebook | Next Event: 2013 Olympus Rally June 22-23 Olympia, WA

Ah Madonna!.....I should leave this alone.............

The old trickle down effect eh?

NO ONE competing believes this. KB and TP don't believe it, but if you pay them enough I suppose they'd tell you they believe it. "Energy" drinks and the like don't give a rats ass about sustainability. They don't care about YOU. They demand an ROI and with rally on this continent, it just isn't there.

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Gone fishing

david amor Wrote:
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> Ah Madonna!.....I should leave this
> alone.............
>
> The old trickle down effect eh?
>
> NO ONE competing believes this. KB and TP don't
> believe it, but if you pay them enough I suppose
> they'd tell you they believe it. "Energy" drinks
> and the like don't give a rats ass about
> sustainability. They don't care about YOU. They
> demand an ROI and with rally on this continent, it
> just isn't there.
>
>

I don't think they demand an ROI on this kind of stuff. There's a difference between 'roi' and 'brand marketing'....which is what any kind of 'sponsorship' is about. Does sponsoring TP or KB result in additional sales? Not immediately...what it does is help create/sustain their 'brand'....which is much more powerful than increasing sales one year...creating a brand does more than that, it creates brand loyal customers, which is a much longer-term source of revenue.

Look at BMW vs Oldsmobile. Every year I see some commercial for a 'brand new' or 'totally redesigned' Olds....because they suck, and they're trying to 'increase sales.'

BMW is simply a brand...they could put that logo on a freakin' go-kart and suddenly everyone would be into go-karting. which would be more appropriate for BMW drivers cause you can drive however you want, cut everyone off, and not use your blinker once, but I digress.

Subaru has a contingency for SCCA rallyX events....1-3rd get a bit of cash. Too bad dealing with SCCA even for 'national' rallyX is such a pain that we don't really push it over here. If they could do something like that for NASA events, that would be a big step in the right direction. Of course, that's a big IF.

If Monster and the like had a similar contingency, where you had to sport a big green 'M' on the side of your car, but had a chance of getting contingency money at a NASA event and NOT have to compete with TP and KB and the boys I think that would be really cool and I bet everyone one here would partake if given the chance.


Just throwing out ideas...I don't really see any of these things happening anytime soon, but its probably the most realistic option (since this is what Hankook,etc, do) at this point to 'help' the little guy.

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Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

IMO, as far as large-scale support is concerned, third party interests always have ROI in their scope. I don't believe Hankook offers contingencies out of the goodness of their heart, they do it for more sales, to gain more than they give.

Sure there are examples of individuals pulling favors for friends, but ROI is everything in large-scale corporate/company decisions. Not that that's wrong, its just the way a successful business is run.

my two cents....

Eddie Fiorelli Wrote:
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> IMO, as far as large-scale support is concerned,
> third party interests always have ROI in their
> scope. I don't believe Hankook offers
> contingencies out of the goodness of their heart,
> they do it for more sales, to gain more than they
> give.
>
> Sure there are examples of individuals pulling
> favors for friends, but ROI is everything in
> large-scale corporate/company decisions. Not that
> that's wrong, its just the way a successful
> business is run.
>
> my two cents....
>
>

I agree and its true to an extent, and its certainly a fine line between 'ROI vs Brand Name'. but the subaru contingency, that's just a cash outlay. no one's gonna go buy a subaru becaues they won $200 for 3rd place in their old audi quattro. Well, I dunno....would they? But I see that as Subaru just putting their name out there...not asking for anything in return.


the hankook one yeah....you get cash towards more tires right? (I forget the details) and that has 'increase sales' all over it. But then you're not very brand loyal....if another tire mfg comes out with a better contingency payout, people will switch in a heartbeat.

Either way, I'm just saying that more programs like this could/would/potentially help out the 'grassroots' teams w/'big money' coming down from corporate sponsors serious about helping the sport from the bottom up.

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Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

Damn right Jon, big companies supporting big rally people like KB and TP wont help the little guy. But if they bring popularity to the sport then intern it brings more sponsors as it gets more popular. Like a walmart being built in a shopping center. Its called the "Flag Store" and a bunch of little stores owned by small business(grassroots) are able to attract customers as well. It may not happen right away but its a trickle down effect.

If you are serious about rally then it will happen for ya.

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Rally411.com - Its Rally
Rocksliderally.com - Extreme Off-Road Car Community

Jon Burke Wrote:
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> But I see
> that as Subaru just putting their name out
> there...not asking for anything in return.
>

Ah, but they are asking for marketing in return. The thrust of my point is that I would be surprised if the decision to provide that cash overlay wasn't based on soley a perceived marketing gain. Subaru has been very succesful at creating a fanbase, so its working out for them.

> the hankook one yeah....you get cash towards more
> tires right? (I forget the details) and that has
> 'increase sales' all over it. But then you're not
> very brand loyal

The Hankook contingency is a cheap way for them to get their stickers on our cars too . There is a big marketing element there too.

>....if another tire mfg comes out
> with a better contingency payout, people will
> switch in a heartbeat.

I think very few would if the value wasn't there. Given how much their tires cost, the Hankook program is indeed excellent (inexpensive tires that work well with high payouts). But the contingency program is the last factor in my decision to run their tires with performance and price being ahead on the list. I imagine many competitors think similarly.

> Either way, I'm just saying that more programs
> like this could/would/potentially help out the
> 'grassroots' teams w/'big money' coming down from
> corporate sponsors serious about helping the sport
> from the bottom up.
>

I agree there, I'm just skepitcal of the exent at which corporate sponsors are interested in helping the sport from the bottom up. So more programs are indeed good, I love my free tires , we just shouldn't expect them to be there long term. Accordingly, they should play a small role in our sustainability strategy.

As someone who used to subscribe to the popularity/trickle-down mindset, I have to say my opinion has changed in the last year or so. Maybe it's just me, but it seems the people who are sponsored by the conglomerates are the type who can afford to buy a full WRC-type program and trailer the whole shebang coast-to-coast to whoop up on everyone else even if they had no sponsors. Seriously. Remember that DC video with KB on the ski slopes? They own a mountain. A fucking mountain. When you reach that level, you don't really need any kind of sponsorship to make your rally dream a reality.

JVL has it right about how the fanboys and toonerz don't need to actually drive their cars to get the rep points they crave. Drop $10k into a $30k WRX or Evo and the sycophants come out of the woodwork to tell you they love your car and think you're grand. If they are driving, they're likely drag racing because that's what AWD is designed to do, right? Pffft.

IMO, the key is getting people interested in playing in the dirt. DirtyImpretzel has the right idea. They show these guys that you don't need JDM-tyte forged wheels and polished everything to be a true wheelman. Sand-swirled paint and mud caked into the wheel wells show you actually do something with your car. You threw a couple mods at it, but you get out there and have fun driving it. They have meets, go on cruises out in the boonies, and when someone overcooks it through a water crossing (despite being told to be careful) and leaves chunk of their bumper on a tree, they all cheer. Not saying damage is cool, but I'd say it's a fact of life for any true race car, so being able to display some scars is a point of pride.

Meh. I'm rambling. (Fuck!) My point is, I no longer give two shits about major sponsors, big name brands, TV coverage or any of that mainstream bullshit. So long as car guys are bringing their friends out to rallies to show them how fucking cool it can be and then going back to drink beers and relive the day's shenanigans, rally can't die...

EDIT: This isn't to say I'm against sponsorship. I just think more people should change their point of view. For many, sponsorship means you give me money to play. I've decided that I'm going to use my car to advertise those people and organizations that are important to me. If Mike from AMMfab welds up my shit nice and neat, then I'm going to put his name on the car somewhere. Hell. Mike's a hell of a guy, so I might just do it anyway. Same thing for the local humane society now that I think of it. (They do some mean welding, let me tell you.) You can take a grand from someone and then hope they make that grand back because their name is on your car OR you could put their name on your car because they've already done right by you and know that getting one extra customer based on a $0 investment is pretty damn good. Build the foundation up front. Tis better to give than to receive...

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2008 07:41PM by DR1665.

You bring up KB. Do we really know how much of his own money KB is bringing to the table? I imagine that KB basically sponsors himself. Who knows what arrangement they have with Subaru/DC/RA.

-e

Eddie Fiorelli Wrote:
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> You bring up KB. Do we really know how much of his
> own money KB is bringing to the table? I imagine
> that KB basically sponsors himself. Who knows what
> arrangement they have with Subaru/DC/RA.
>
> -e

^^ good question.....HEY! Any Rally American Organizers watching this? When Ken Block's entry fee comes in, is it a personal check?

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Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

Jon Burke Wrote:
> Any Rally American
> Organizers watching this? When Ken Block's entry
> fee comes in, is it a personal check?

I imagine that this would be difficult to answer. I suspect that most of the RA entries are processed by credit card through DCH, and that at some point those funds are transferred in a lump to the organizer with a list of who's paid. I'd be surprised if the transaction details were passed along too.

Cheers,
Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Really, who cares how he pays. Talk about going off topic.

If we were in the same position (i.e. loaded and wanted to rally), don't you think you'd get worn out trying to defend yourself and your ability to 10,000 keyboard nazis who can do nothing but bitch all day? Not saying that's going on here, just what I've seen elsewhere.

KB's job isn't to make the sport more accessible or to make sure the little guy gets to rally, nor is it Travis'.....or Subaru for that matter. They're around to sell cars. A lot of people forget that.

I see a lot of people getting so mad that they can't rally because it's so expensive use the guys who CAN as a scapegoat. It's lame.

Who ever said motorsports were supposed to be cheap?