2008 McRae Stages

Here are the results of this past weekends event:

http://www.flyingfinish.co.uk/

it is pretty impressive to look at the times put down by a bunch of "old" cars. granted the insides of the escorts are pretty damn modern. still pretty damn cool.

here are some videos:

this one is from SS5 and shows Jim McRae's crash








i know this event was more about fun and paying tribute to colin rather than all out copmetition but it sure looks like these guys were pushing pretty hard.

i think that might have been every old escort in the UK there last weekend.

too bad Meeke had a bit of an off he was really putting down some fast times. alister kept pretty close to matt wilson in the 05 WRC Focus.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2008 04:26PM by Greg Donovan.

Bjorn Waldegaard, Hannu Mikkola, and Ari Vatanen!
Also noticed JB, KB, and TP on the results. Wonder what the two younguns thought of the Escort and RWD. I think I remember Ken saying something about really wanting to drive one someday in an interview once.

---

Grant Hughes

over in the world forum on SS alex talked a bit about the rally beforehand.

i think they really liked the old escorts. ken rolled his in practice.

apparently andrew havas had an entry for the orange rx-7 but could scounge up enough money for the trip.

Greg Donovan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> over in the world forum on SS alex talked a bit
> about the rally beforehand.
>
> i think they really liked the old escorts. ken
> rolled his in practice.

Quelle surprise!!!
>
> apparently andrew havas had an entry for the
> orange rx-7 but could scounge up enough money for
> the trip.

Such a shame.
BUT! Great seeing Buffum showing once again that he is still the fastest
guy in our Continent beating Travis by wide margins and crushing Block---who continues to crash his car on immediately on his overseas adventures.
I really have to say the consistancy of his SS1 or SS2 or this time in practice offs and stuffs or rolls seems mighty suspicious, and awfully convenient way to have an excuse for dismal results. Mid 60s and 70s for stage times---even with a previously rolled car--- pretty poor showing.

As expected.

Must be harder when you actually have to drive the car and look for grip.

---

Monika Hawkinson
Seattle, WA

when i was listening to rally radio they were saying that ken's car was having some mechanical issues and barely started.

i saw some footage of him and travis on stage and they looked ok.

but it is clear that allister, meeke and others are in a different league.

alex made a "blog" post over on SS about the event.

http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?p=276479#post276479

"Team finally arrives and unloads the two Escorts, a Mk1 for Travis and Derek and a Mk2 for Ken and I.
Cars look really spectacular, but they are built under strict Historic class rules, bolt on cages, period correct suspension, brakes, tires and all from the 70s."

sounds like the roll was a very light roll that didnt damage the car too much.

Alex on the note making process:

"They are very different from the Jembas we are provided in N.A. events. But we are given a DVD of the stages and that is proving very useful when making the changes to adapt the notes as close as possible to our style."

this would explain the less than stellar finish:

"Stage two, the box fails, we are running without 4th and 5th and the stage is very fast..Three gears only and with a rev limiter that had to be bypassed when they fixed the car on the first transit. Have to be very careful not to blow up the very expensive BDA motor of our car. Stage three climbs up an open forest with big drops of both sides, the classic Drummond Hill stage. Puncture with three miles to go..Escort is a bitch to driver with a rear flat tire...Clear the stage and change it right at the end. Bit of a drama when the jack brakes..fortunately the spare was already fitted.."

could you imagine having an event here in the states with 120 cars starting and on several stages the top 30 are only seperated by 1 minute and you need to get down to 67th place to find the first car 2 minutes behind the leader?

that would be awesome.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2008 09:16AM by Greg Donovan.

Greg Donovan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> apparently andrew havas had an entry for the
> orange rx-7 but could scounge up enough money for
> the trip.


The quotes he was getting to ship the car back and forth were pretty insane, plus it was recommended that he begin the shipping process in July to make sure the carand spares got there in time! Even if he had the money, his new shop is taking up all his 'spare' time. I was looking forward to going as well, even if only to change tires!

Bob

---

Opel is a 4-letter word...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10498579@N07/sets/

Ascona73 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Greg Donovan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > apparently andrew havas had an entry for the
> > orange rx-7 but could scounge up enough money
> for
> > the trip.
>
>
> The quotes he was getting to ship the car back and
> forth were pretty insane, plus it was recommended
> that he begin the shipping process in July to make
> sure the carand spares got there in time! Even if
> he had the money, his new shop is taking up all
> his 'spare' time. I was looking forward to going
> as well, even if only to change tires!
>
> Bob
>
> Opel is a 4-letter word...
too bad it didnt work out. it would have been cool to see that orange beastie mixing it up with all that old british iron.

Greg Donovan Wrote:

>
> this would explain the less than stellar finish:
>
> "Stage two, the box fails, we are running without
> 4th and 5th and the stage is very fast..Three
> gears only and with a rev limiter that had to be
> bypassed when they fixed the car on the first
> transit. Have to be very careful not to blow up
> the very expensive BDA motor of our car.
>
> could you imagine having an event here in the
> states with 120 cars starting and on several
> stages the top 30 are only seperated by 1 minute
> and you need to get down to 67th place to find the
> first car 2 minutes behind the leader?
>
> that would be awesome.

No that wouldn't explain consistant middle of the lower half of the field stage times, that was one stage.

The cars were good.
What it does show is what some have said for years about the not really sharp end of the stick: without their super-doooper cars, they're not even middle of pack guys.

Just rich.
>
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at Sep 30, 2008 by Greg
> Donovan.

---

Monika Hawkinson
Seattle, WA

kevin,

ken and travis' cars had less power and no paddle shifters like the fast open escorts. their cars were period correct historic escorts. you dont think that contributed to the results at all? you dont think those open class escorts are soooper bitchen'? those things cost as much as a SRTUSA WRX.

of the 4 stages that were run they had a broken box on one and a flat on another. so they had 2 mechanically clean stages. it is a short fun rally and they performed pretty well on those 2 clean stages. and they werent the only rich people on that entry list.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2008 08:42AM by Greg Donovan.

Greg Donovan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kevin,
>
> ken and travis' cars had less power


This is JVL, I KNOW what a Escort with a period correct BDA makes for power: 210 bhp or for MkII with BDG 252bhp.
They geared them pretty damn short in the rear axle, too.

Ford a car that weight, their power to weight was EXCELLENT.

LAME excuses.


>and no paddle
> shifters like the fast open escorts.

AND??? Do their SRTUSAXYZ cars have paddle shifters? Do their PWRC GropeN cars?

Then there's nothing to get used to (truth told, I have not seen paddle shifters on any rwd cars---SEQUENTIAL sure, but not paddle shift)
So MORE LAME EXCUSES


their cars
> were period correct historic escorts. you dont
> think that contributed to the results at all?

Greg go read the WHOLE entry list. There were all sorts of cars from old WRC cars to poxy little slow fwd shit.
A full works spec Escort is an amazing and fast car.
As fast as somer of those old timer WRC guys were in their GpB cars, they were ON AVERAGE a max of about 3mph faster on stages compared to these type of Group 4 Escorts.


Stop making excuses and focusing on the equipment, they had no cluse how to drive the cars. Look at the vids of the uphill corner----hardly a hairpin.
Wider than a freeway, smooth, and looked like decent grip, and they both FUCKED UP like amateurs.



you
> dont think those open class escorts are soooper
> bitchen'? those things cost as much as a SRTUSA
> WRX.


Only because the people building cars know they can rape the people who want to play memory lane---it's a case of income redistribution on a tradewide scale.
Working class sticking it to the rich folks (again you don't seem to be very concious of class antagonisms which are common in much of the world).
>
> of the 4 stages that were run they had a broken
> box on one and a flat on another. so they had 2
> mechanically clean stages. it is a short fun
> rally and they performed pretty well on those 2
> clean stages.

If you consdider they are TOUTED, relentlessly promoted as "RALLY SUPERSTARS"
then maybe 60-whatever-th for Block and 50 something for Pastrana is pretty good
But I am comparing their extremely poor OA stage times with their really fine equipment to their inarguable dominance in US events.

Same guys, same surface, different cars and they finish NOWHERE.


and they werent the only rich
> people on that entry list.

That's true and most of the world recognizes rich "hobbyist" guys who just buy the most expensive equipment possible as putzes, even if they may be friendly and charming, but putzes all the same.

Lots of putzes in car motorsport.


Why are you defending them so tenaciously?
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at Oct 1, 2008 by Greg
> Donovan.

---

Monika Hawkinson
Seattle, WA

Why are you defending them so tenaciously?

--i guess it kind of bugged me that i wanted to talk about what a cool event this was and kevin decided to turn it into a "OMG Ken sucks" thread. it was pretty neat that they were there running it at all and getting experience in more different types of cars. i agree that the way they started in rally was the "buy your way in method." yeah, they would have probably been better off starting in old low tech cars here in the US.

Re Paddle shifters in escorts:

--there is a incar video of colin in his escort with him shifting and never letting go of the wheel. i will try to find it later.

why are you and kevin attacking them so tenaciously?

grant and kevin were the first ones in the thread to brign them up. i didnt even mention them untill kevin did. and i was just offering a counterpoint and more to the story than just the results.

yeah, they really fucked up the open uphill hairpin. atleast ken's donut was entertaining. no excuse for that. especially from an "exrtreme" guy like ken. but you are right. ken doesnt need me to defend him. he is a big boy. doesnt need to have someone tearing him down either, even so i am sure he can handle it just fine. superstars? yes. rally masters? not yet.
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------
anyway, back to the event discussion.

did you see the pics of the escort that hannu and nicky were in? that thing looked awesome.

the few clips i have seen of Andy Horne in his DAM 4100 GTI were pretty cool.

seeing all those RWD cars sure is a treat. that must have been every escort in the UK there last weekend.

isnt it awesome to see all of the big names from rally history out on the stages? those are true legendary rally superstars.

as a side note, it was also cool to see you out there in the volvo at that rallyx. looked like you were having a good time with your little cone hat.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2008 12:15AM by Greg Donovan.

JVL wrote:

"Stop making excuses and focusing on the equipment, they had no cluse how to drive the cars. Look at the vids of the uphill corner----hardly a hairpin.
Wider than a freeway, smooth, and looked like decent grip, and they both FUCKED UP like amateurs."
---------------------------------------------------
here is another hairpin:





looks like vatanen and buffum fucked up like amateurs too. shit happens i guess. i am sure we could spend hours posting up links to videos of just about every single rally driver fucking up a corner somewhere.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2008 09:37PM by Greg Donovan.

Sofa King Wrote:
> This is JVL



I think it's pretty funny that JVL takes all this time to try to badmouth Travis and Ken in this forum, hehe..it's really entertaining..
Relax John..
Ken and Travis are having the time of their lives in Rally right now, fans love them, sponsors love them, other competitors (from the RA to WRC events) have great respect of them, they are getting paid for driving rally cars in events around the world (and they are doing a pretty awesome job at it too), but most of all are great guys and down to earth competitors.
They were personally invited by the McRae’s to come be a part of their event in memory of their good friend Colin. It was an event meant to promote rally and honor the memory of a great guy. If we were there to try and win the race, then we would have spent days there testing and practicing in those cars (instead of 9 total miles of testing). We did not do that because we were there just for fun as part of an amazing event.
We may not have been as fast as some of those guys on those conditions and with those unknown (so far, for us) cars, but then again Hannu or Ari or Bjorn were setting middle of the pack stage times last weekend and those guys know a thing of two about RWD..
TP and KB have never raced in RWD cars and it was their first time in historic Escorts. How could they be expected to keep up with experienced guys that have driven those cars for years (and won championships in them!)??? It’s just not a fair comparison, nor one that is even worthy of much discussion. In fact, it’s not really fair to compare their times to Buffum’s....he raced several decades in RWD cars!
You should be ashamed when you (often) downgrade Rally in North America in public forums, you are offending all the drivers (some, ironically, even customers of yours), codrivers, organizers and workers that put so much effort and sacrifices in Rally here...
As far as the comments you make about Travis and Ken...put your jealousy aside, it shows no class...those two are some of the nicest guys you'll meet in this sport..
I apologize in advance if I won't be able to follow up to your reply, I only occasionally browse this forum.
In the meantime, enjoy the picture below.
Alex Gelsomino

---

www.alexgelsomino.com

that is a cool picture. it really captures the spirit of rally. press on regardless...

glad you guys had fun alex.

i am really dissapointed in rally anarchy right now.

we had an event that had 120 cars in it and most of them old RWD escorts and cool stuff like that and all that some people here can talk about is bashing ken and travis. that is why i got defensive. i wanted to talk about cool cars going sideways. but stupid me i got sucked into kevin and jvl's bitchfest. yet again. and i had done so well ata avoiding them for the last few years.