So I spent last night adding up my bills on what’s to become a club rally car (95 golf sport) I bought the car modified for show duty with a lot of parts to buy and sell and had a great deal of help from a great friend of mine in the build process so far. As of right now it needs a cage, safety equipment and some underbody protection... other than that its solid... no issues... I rallyx it with a thought of it letting me down, no worries from me about driving anywhere and it has no quirks. All for 6k total bill and only 1300 of that came out of pocket (thanks to parting a few cars which have also given me a bunch of spares) The build has been quite enjoyable and I'd love to make a living out of it someday.

So for lets say for 8k I buy myself someone else's old rally car with a long list of events under its belt and a bunch of "mods" to the drive train and chassis done by who knows who in a garage or in service trying to get it to finish an event.

I as an anal person wanting to know that everything is right and hates being let down by others work, I would probably then tare into the car and replace everything that was showing any signs of wear or anything that looks hacked... probably setting me back another 1-2k...

Thoughts? Do people just not care about making repairs and like the fact the car is complete and can be rallied if you give up on some personal attention to detail? Does stress cracking scare you? (it scares me... my last car is a stress crack monster) What about that shoddy repair where the oil pickup is bent? etc...

I am also looking for either a golf sport or a mk3 gti to build these days... Just do not want to shell out a whole lotta money for it so been on the look out for a while.

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rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!

There is a 98 GTI VR fs in the NE classifieds on the vortex... only 1k! you could make that back by selling the vr and putting a 2.0 in!!

Just a thought.

I sold close to 1300 worth of stuff out of my 2200 golf sport :-)

If you can do your own work (cage, seam welding, fabriction) i say build.

I bought a 93 Impreza from the states and imported it into Canada, was a non rusty shell and got it for like $1000. I spent a long time prepping it, but did it all myself so my 100's of hours labour was free. I probably have $10-15K into it now (i care not to add it up) but i have a kick-ass open class car, alot of spares, and i know the car like the back of my hand.


If you can't do fab work, and you are paying an expensive shop to do this for you... 100% buy a ready built/rallied car. Fix what is wrong, and run it.

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Chris

Dave, stop making sense.
It seems you want to confuse the issue with logic and reality.
Trust me ! Just go over to that other place and you'll see the NEAR UNANIMOUS conclusion is to buy a ready built car because that is the fastest way to be able to enter an event and we all knows that INSTANT GRATIFICATION of ANY and ALL WHIMS, not matter the circumstances is YOUR GAAAAWWWWD GIVEN CONSTITUTION RIGHT AS A RED BLOODED AMERICAN NO MATTER HOW MANY HORROR STORIES OF UTTERLY WHUPPED TO FUCKIN DEATH USED RALLY CARS WE'VE HEARD OF.
"Rally" cars with stock motors with a unknown miles, stock trannies, unreinforced body shells etc.

I think I've already said something about being TOO picky, or anal.

Let me clarify: There are so many systems and sub-system of production cars that ALL need some review and revision that there HAS TO BE some sort of "triage system" to help PRIORITIZE what and where you will devote time and or money.
You simply cannot be anal about everything.
You have to THINK "what is the payback in the dollar spent to LAUGH RETURN on this mod or procedure?"

To help prioritize I say we gotta look at both macro and micro.
The foundation of the CAR is the bodyshell.
The foundation of the motor is the bottom end.

I say we gotta make both of those as strong and reliable as we can figure out, and we can then add to those the things that bring more performance as budget allows.

You CAN survive with less than perfect gearset or brakes, and have fun, and the FUN sustains the enthusiasm and keeps us wanting to improve the other systems in the car.

But importantly I say its well proven that the more exciting and fun the car is the longer we stay with a car, and the longer we stay with a given car, the better we can make it work with us in the specific environment we're using it.

Whaddya think?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I think this is such a funny topic, because it all just depends on SOOOOO much.

fab skillz (or lack thereof)
general automotive skillz/no-ledge, or lack of no-ledge
previous race experience
blue drink sponsors

and the big one, PERSONAL PREFERENCE!!!

I'm building because I want to mother fucking build...and that's that. Cheapest route? Hell no. Smartest route? Fucking hell no. But flying down bumpy roads at 80mph next to big trees ain't so smart either, so whatever.

But I see all the sides and angles, and I know to keep myself in rally in the long run, I'll eventually buy someone else's car. the thought of driving different cars (and learning about them) seems really fun too.

But not right now. Right now, I'm being stubborn and I'm turning the street queen subarat into a rally monster. done and done. if you don't like it, bite me.


BUT, to Mr. Dexter's first point...I agree. The two rallies I've competed in, all the one's that dropped out early...from something simple going wrong mechanically (NOT driver error), were the older, hand-me-down cars that the owner just couldn't anticipate until it happened. And its just nice to know the mileage/abuse on every piece of your car, every inch, dent (and the source), repair (and who/how it was repaired) etc.

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Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2008 12:58PM by Jon Burke.

Everytime I went looking for a good used car all I could find in my price range were used up cars or ones that had some questionable fabrication/repairs done to them. So I might have been on stage sooner with a used car, but probably would have had to tear it apart to rebuild all the fawked up crap on it. The only thing worse than building IMO is fixing someone elses hacks/mistakes.

well i suppose this is a two way street. yes, i can weld, fab, use mills/lathes, lay up some ghetto-fabulous composites, etc. but i am buying a used car. why? because i want to DRIVE a rally car, not turn wrenches. if i buy a car next week (that is the plan) i get to compete throughout the 09 season. if i start a build...damn who knows how long that could take...probably at least a few years...of course if you have fun building, by all means, but to me building is just a means to an end: driving.

on the other hand, finding the right car to buy took the better part of a year. most cars i looked at that were for sale were a lot closer to half done projects that ready to go stage preps.

(I need to spend more time here. I'm a lazy, slacker SOB.)

Jon Burke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm building because I want to mother fucking
> build...and that's that.

HOO-wah! PREACH IT.

Jon Burke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But not right now. Right now, I'm being stubborn
> and I'm turning the street queen subarat into a
> rally monster. done and done. if you don't like
> it, bite me.

I'd call 195 a street queen, but she's spent more time JSB (Jack Stand Ballin' for those unfamiliar with an official Gaylant VR4 status). A long time Ghostbusters fan, I'm considering tags for the Amigo, 464 and 195 - G8KEEPR, KEYMSTR, and ZUL.

Jon Burke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> just nice to know the mileage/abuse on every piece
> of your car, every inch, dent (and the source),
> repair (and who/how it was repaired) etc.

I'm building because:
- I've been up to my eyeballs with this powertrain for more than a decade.
- I want more Misterbitchy guys to get exposed to rally (and then talk them into a Volvo).
- I know the engine, trans and shell are solid.
- My Gaylant killed a POS Kia and sent two kids to the hospital, so it can handle some bushes, easy.
- In the time it takes me to complete the car, I might be able to save up enough money to afford my first rally outing.

I'm going bare bones. If I don't need it to legally and safely run, I'm not buying it. Local buddy told me last month that he has a pipe bender and welding equipment, "so we can probably get a cage going into your car pretty quick."

Fucking word.

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

Hope you mean tube bender...

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

you can use a pipe bender, as long as you understand the differences.

remember that electricians don't want kinks or their pipe ovaled or else they aren't going to get the wires inside...

i've used greenlee PIPE benders several times and gotten very very good bends

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Chris

Interesting. I'll stick with tube benders though.

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Thanks for the feed back.. seems like this is a builders forum over a buyers... YAY!!!

I am building it and enjoying every minute... I'm also rallyxing this car every chance I get and its been wonderful not being let down by others work and thanks to my buddy my own stupidity. ;-)





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2008 06:36AM by DexterVW.

you do understand the only difference between a "pipe" and a "tube" bender is the naming conventions for pipe/tube size right??

"pipe" is measured ID, they only care about ID because they are putting stuff inside (electrical wires, plumbing). Pipe has a nominal wall thickness of 1/8"

"Tube" is measured in OD, this is because in this application we care about the OD of the pipe.

so...say you wanted to bend 1.75x.095 DOM tubing, you are concerned with a die that fits the 1.75" OD TIGHT...well 1.75-.125-.125= 1.5" Pipe!

If you want to bend 1.75" Tube = 1.5" Pipe Die
If you want to bend 1.5" Tube = 1.25" Pipe Die.

These are both very standard sizes.

Here's a Greenlee "pipe" bender: http://www.toolup.com/Greenlee/882CB.html
which is no different from this : http://www.speedwerx.com.au/tubebender.html

The greenlee things are $$$ new, but most good Rent-all stores will have a couple of these instock, and i've rented them as low as $50 for a week.

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Chris

Great info Chris!

I know what I'm using for my next cage.

-Martin.