rally future

NO I AM NOT AN EXPERT IN EVERYTHING!!!!

I said what I know! IF ITS WRONG TELL ME IN A NON ASS HOLE WAY!!!

How much do your 325i's weight in full rally trim? Are you close to 50/50 ?

Are you running, for the most part, stock engine and gearbox?

For grp 5 would see any benefit to switching to a turbo 2 liter 4 cyl, or would you turbo the 2.8 or 3.0 liter I-6 ?

Is the weight savings worth the decrease in HP / dollars spent?

---

Michael LeCompte

DexterVW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NO I AM NOT AN EXPERT IN EVERYTHING!!!!
>
> I said what I know! IF ITS WRONG TELL ME IN A NON
> ASS HOLE WAY!!!

We have been, you're reading into the words an assholeness that isn't there.

Lissen, every occupational group has in other occupational group a certain "reputation". I'll be frank. I've worked as machinist, mostly lather work, as welder, and did that from first in 1970, deeper and more serious from 1973, by mid 70s I was doing more weld/fab all while simultaneously working on all ALL levels of race motorcylcle build/mod/maintenence all as part of a fairly oouvert plan to gather all the skills, strengths, and material to go and make a full time living racing moto-cross in International events (a step above National Championships in status---although in reality the entries were just selected National Championship caliber riders from various countries. It was not World Championship level even if there were often 1-8 World Championship drivers at events when there was a gap in their "VM" program.)

In working at the goal of full time professional rider, I had frequent opportunities to speak with a number of different engineers working for the various European manufacturers at events> Most had been active at fairly decent level in thee sport, some able to do good results in International events.
As such, we spoke to each other as colleagues, and equals with justa variation in the tools set.
The interesting thing I found that contrasted these guys to the B Movie cliché goon nerd type "injur-near" was this realxed conversational back and forth.
THEY designed stuff, but WE were making it and beating on it, and they knew that engines and suspension were different to when they had been more active just maybe 4-6 years before so THEY ASKED ABOUT WHAT WE, I felt about this or that.

And thinking back that is the biggest thing WE both or all (Engineers/ Tool and die guys/machinists/riders/mechanics) (who got very far) ASKED each other LOTS and LOTS of questions and NEVER was there any whining simpering DEFENSIVENESS or ACCUSATORY RESPONSES.

This is because a) we were very mission directed--this mission was to go fast within the limits we accepted (engine class 250cc or 125cc or 500cc).
b) we unspokenly acknowledged each others expertise and status.
We knew eachother in other words.

Hell a German friend Werner Schutz introduces me to the son of the Maico factory owner who was an engineer and (we had been to some events same time, he was FAST, that was my first year) since we're in civvies at the factory, when he says "Yeah John lives in the van during the season...Now that's full time!" Maisch changed, became both more relaxed and talkative. Asked if I had ridden their bikes what I thought etc, listened to criticism, commiserated at the difficulties of European manufacturers in light of the tsunami of money the Japanese factories were inundating the the sport with.

I do not mean to be particularly mean, but EVERY mechanic, every machinist who has to deal with the results of engineers "brilliant ideas" generally, NEARLY always, have a very unfavorable opinion of "those gawd damm Injurnears who designed this SHIT!!" that they have to make and service.

I would suggest that you might find more unwillingness to help if you were to use more question marks, to ASK details rather than make flat statements such as "You can find all sorts of gearboxes at the junk yard".
And if you were to understand that while we have lots of fun doing this stuff in North America, even in the rally world the lack of concrete information and specific expertise on concrete methods and techniques is a serious problem currently. There are so few people doing comprehensive builds on anything that info is needed. And while there maybe some knowledge transfer for other forms of car racing, with little mostly furrin cars, the emphasis on so many stock or near stock classes in amateur roadracing and cone squishing makes info from those sources of negligible value.

Thus for ideas and "approaches" to the mission of going fast and staying in the sport we have seen we are best served by looking at ideas and approaches where the sport has continued for decades to flourish as a mass participation sport.
And that is in UK, Sweden, and Finland. (Since there is primarily gravel events there, even if there is much to be learned from the sport as done in France regarding participation and especially promotion).

Finally, obviously I spend a fair amount of time helping guys with their problems, and i have ample willingness to return the favors that others have done for me since 1967, you might do better than to flat out DEMAND education.
>
>

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Bean:

I am absolutely in touch with my feminine self. I agree, lets move on.

Wilson

bean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wvonkessler Wrote:
> > I'm surprised that you were even able to even
> come
> > up with a snappy comeback, you know, with the
> dick
> > in your mouth and all.
>
> Sorry to pollute the post with a response -
> But...
>
> Wilson - very good. Your brother-uncle-daddy
> taught you very well in the ways of homophobia.
> Well done grasshopper. BTW - Usually those that
> have such strong homophobic tendencies are just
> repressing - so you might want to work that one
> out. Can we move on now?
>
> Back to the topic:
>
> As for the OP - I'm curious to see what he ends up
> building as it should be a pretty damn sweet ride.
> There's definitely some decent platforms to start
> with - so it'll be interesting to see what he goes
> outside of VW/Audi.
>
> Rabin
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at Feb 4, 2009 by bean.

---

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

pikespeakgtx Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How much do your 325i's weight in full rally trim?

Believe 2700 or so - have not been on a scale.

> Are you close to 50/50 ?

No idea, but the cars are nicely balanced.

> Are you running, for the most part, stock engine
> and gearbox?

Yes, except for the final drive, and a chip for the M20B25, which is vital. We chose the E30s because there were 1/2 a million made, we had access to two already caged and rallied for chump change, and we were looking for good horsepower (190) with stock reliability.

> For grp 5 would see any benefit to switching to a
> turbo 2 liter 4 cyl, or would you turbo the 2.8 or
> 3.0 liter I-6 ?

Neither. For the amount of money that you would spend on the above, I'd just drop in a stock 3.2 liter M3 engine doing 240hp before chip. Again, stock reliability with high horsepower and the swap is well documented. Even the base M50 twincam is a great engine, doing 190 at the wheels, as opposed to the M20 doing that chipped at the flywheel.

> Is the weight savings worth the decrease in HP /
> dollars spent?

See above. If you've got ubermoney, then the M44 4 cylinder can make silly FIA touring car horsepower, but for us mere mortals, I think the above upgrade path is better.

Please note that the Finns run the E36 325i's in F-Cup because they have to based upon their engine rules in order to avail themselves of the better M50 twincam engine. I think the E30 chassis with an E36 engine would be a killer but since we're grassrooting it, we're going to stick with the M20 mills, and when we stuff the cars, will just go ahead and build E36 chassis cars to get the newer platform.


> Michael LeCompte

---

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

Hey Wilson, any of them e30s gonna be at sandblast this week?

---

rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!

Thanks man... I will try in the future not to read into things as i have here. I now know you have a lot of history behind you now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2009 08:07PM by DexterVW.

David no special efforts on my part at being an asshole!! It comes naturally don't you know.

David you are not privy to much history that makes many of the things I've read in your posts so amusing.

In time you will come to know just why your comment RE JVL and the aptly named SS.COM (where is that swastika glif?) is so amusing to some of us.

Easy there tiger....

I'm one of those who have spent too many years cussing them engineers who design stuff and have encoutered countless fellers who are engineers who are defensive such as you seem to be.

Go racing and have some fun!

We are all friends in the woods.

---

JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

turoc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Wilson, any of them e30s gonna be at sandblast
> this week?

Ozgur:

Unfortunately not. The stars were not aligned for this event. Realistically, the first event that we'll run with the cars this year is Rally Tennessee. Likely our Finnish friend Jari will be running that event as well in a 240Z. Interestingly, he came in 4th in historic in the Artic Lapland Rally a few weeks ago. Especially interestingly since he is a paraplegic and drives an adapted vehicle.

I was talking to a bud about whether the controls give him a competitive advantage, who wondered who would be the one to protest.

I'd like to do 100AW as a navvie, so if you are interested.

Good luck in Cheraw. The flu has knocked me out of even just going to spectate. First one I've missed since '02.

Wilson

---

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

just a quick follow up, a guy walks in my shop today. he has a 93 E36 325is with a s-52 motor, Getrag 260 trans, chipped, deleted, oversize throttle, light flywheel, lowering Bilsteins/springs, some huge factory BMW wheels with new street tires, No rust or damage, M3 body panels and trim. I can bag this for around $1,500 + some skid plates for his cr450F. should I grab this pimp-mobile?

---

www.frankthewelder.com
www.sinisterbikes.com
learning the ropes by wrapping them around my neck

I proubably would...look at the gr.F BMW on this page along with some of the in-car video:

http://www.tonigardemeister.com/secretfiles.php

The shells are almost identical and an M3 drivetrain swaps in. This could be you





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2009 05:26PM by Tim Taylor.

Duuude Frank if you can bag that for 15 hundo... Bag it up.

Sell off all the pimpin' parts and get some rally suspenders.

The roll cage will likely need work to get to rally spec, but who cares...

Thats a smokin deal. I've seen used s52 longblocks cost $1500.

---

Michael LeCompte



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2009 05:55PM by pikespeakgtx.

ftwelder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can bag this for around $1,500
> + some skid plates for his cr450F. should I grab
> this pimp-mobile?

Do it. Great price. Get some suspenders like this:



From: http://www.rallysystems.com/

Or from the suppliers for this: http://www.xtremerace.fi

Or have JVL make them up.

Find the 4.4 rear end and pop it in.

Then go have a lot of fun with stock relability.

Wilson

---

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

Huge shafts. dirt rally dampers are designed for longer stroke with larger diameter shafts for increased sideloads? ya, jumping I guess you would need that. I am guessing more bearing overlap (might need that with larger diameter) so how much longer are these than stock? JVL makes damper struts? I guess I should ask him but is there a typical stroke/ OA length ratio that can be applied? this subject does not require immediate attention. just doing a little brain feeding.

---

www.frankthewelder.com
www.sinisterbikes.com
learning the ropes by wrapping them around my neck

Stock e36 rear suspension setup:


Toni Gardemeister's group F e36 (the jumping car posted above) rear suspension:


You dont have to break the bank on reigers, but setting up something similar in the rear could be done.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2009 08:15AM by Carl S.