While interest in WRC has plummeted and National series is a poor joke...

Sofa King Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You mean "The Subaru Show, with Travis and Ken"?

Do you bother to do the most basic research before posting?

ACP and Tanner Foust (driving Evos (including that Evo in Hyundai clothing)) are leading the National championship.

The top 8 Open cars at the last two nationals have been an even mix of Mitsubishis and Subarus.

alan

SEANT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> turoc Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > turoc Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > > Back On topic:
> > >
> > > I remember reading/seeing McRae running
> 0 car
> > in a
> > > metro and his times were good enough for
> 2nd
> > OA or
> > > something like that...
> >
> >
> > Here is the link:
> >
> >
>
>
> Yeah and he's running "OO", think "O" was faster
> ...
>
>
> As always IMHO
>
> SEAN TENNIS
> SEATTLE, WASHINGTON
> SAAB 99, SAAB 850


Plus did you catch the comentators statement that "he (Colin) is not running notes but is driving blind"

---

...If you don't go off at least once a season you are not trying hard enough...

SEANT Wrote:
>
> Yeah and he's running "OO", think "O" was faster
> ...
>
>
> As always IMHO
>
> SEAN TENNIS
> SEATTLE, WASHINGTON
> SAAB 99, SAAB 850


yeah but if he was in the US 000 would be faster

---

rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!

tipo158 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sofa King Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You mean "The Subaru Show, with Travis and
> Ken"?
>
> Do you bother to do the most basic research before
> posting?
>
> ACP and Tanner Foust (driving Evos (including that
> Evo in Hyundai clothing)) are leading the National
> championship.
>
> The top 8 Open cars at the last two nationals have
> been an even mix of Mitsubishis and Subarus.
>
> alan

I think I can answer for 90% of us here:
Who cares?
>
>

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tipo158 Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > Sofa King Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > > You mean "The Subaru Show, with Travis and Ken"?
> >
> > Do you bother to do the most basic research before
> > posting?
> >
> > ACP and Tanner Foust (driving Evos (including that
> > Evo in Hyundai clothing)) are leading the National
> > championship.
> >
> > The top 8 Open cars at the last two nationals have
> > been an even mix of Mitsubishis and Subarus.
>
> I think I can answer for 90% of us here:
> Who cares?

People who would like to get their facts straight rather than filtered to reinforce someone's prejudices?

If the answer to the question "do you bother to research before making claims" to 90% of the people here is "who cares if someone does research before making claims", then this place is just as destructive to rally as anything that you claim is hurting rally.

tipo158 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sofa King Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You mean "The Subaru Show, with Travis and
> Ken"?
>
> Do you bother to do the most basic research before
> posting?
>
> ACP and Tanner Foust (driving Evos (including that
> Evo in Hyundai clothing)) are leading the National
> championship.
>
> The top 8 Open cars at the last two nationals have
> been an even mix of Mitsubishis and Subarus.
>
> alan
>
>
Alan,
I apologize. I obviously did not do any reasearch at all before I made my offhand derogatory remark.

To be honest, I have not been paying attention to rally since shortly after RA came up with the idea to limit what classes people can start out in.

---

Monika Hawkinson
Seattle, WA

tipo158 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People who would like to get their facts straight
> rather than filtered to reinforce someone's
> prejudices?
>
> If the answer to the question "do you bother to
> research before making claims" to 90% of the
> people here is "who cares if someone does research
> before making claims", then this place is just as
> destructive to rally as anything that you claim is
> hurting rally.


Good answer!

I think at the end of the day.. unlesss a real hot bed happens, rally will be in North America, what rally be. You have to be a real glutten for punishment and have the $$ to back you up if you want to do the National thing. I'm glad people do.

I don't think the pejudice here is particularly anti Subraru as it is the belief that rally in North America would be better if more people raced cheaper cars more often.

---

Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

I think there's a reason why Mitsu's and Subaru's are so plentiful.

At least in Canada they're the only 2 manufacturer's who offer a contingency program. With Subaru I believe it covers all years and for Mitsu it's 1998 and up.

Fuck you even get money to just start and event and more money if you place in one of the Groups. Granted it's not alot of $$$ but it's certainly better than nothing.

You get sliding scale compensation based on the distance you travel to tow to an event, just for towing to get there.

Sure it may not be as exciting as RWD, but I think there's plenty of people who don't mind a bit of financial help and possibly these decisions are made when buying or building a car.

Hence the Dominance of those 2 brands.

Sofa King Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tipo158 Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > Sofa King Wrote:
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > > You mean "The Subaru Show, with Travis and Ken"?
> >
> > Do you bother to do the most basic research before
> > posting?
> >
> > ACP and Tanner Foust (driving Evos (including that
> > Evo in Hyundai clothing)) are leading the National
> > championship.
> >
> > The top 8 Open cars at the last two nationals have
> > been an even mix of Mitsubishis and Subarus.
>
> I apologize. I obviously did not do any reasearch
> at all before I made my offhand derogatory
> remark.

I apologize for being so confrontational. Don't take it personal. I just get very frustrated with stuff like this.

> To be honest, I have not been paying attention to
> rally since shortly after RA came up with the idea
> to limit what classes people can start out in.

Technically, SCCA came up with it.

I understand it. My standard refrain on this is "try going road racing in a top end car without any experience". I think that it is a good idea that the sanctioning body verify that someone can drive a fast car before setting them loose on stage. Personally, I don't think the Novice/Provisional rules do it the right way, but I am not the person buying RA's insurance.

alan

hudson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the belief that rally in
> North America would be better if more people raced
> cheaper cars more often.

I agree.

However, having been on the competitor end, having some glimpse into the sanctioning body end (but not enough to really understand what is going on) and having been on the organizer end, I don't know how to achieve that.

Here in the PNW, people don't take advantage of the events that we have now. Why aren't more people running Idaho and the BC events?

I have seen the budgets for events and I don't see how to make them less expensive.

You can run less expensive 2WD cars, but it still won't be cheap.

> Technically, SCCA came up with it.

Wasn't it the leader Spitzner?
>
> I understand it. My standard refrain on this is
> "try going road racing in a top end car without
> any experience". I think that it is a good idea
> that the sanctioning body verify that someone can
> drive a fast car before setting them loose on
> stage. Personally, I don't think the
> Novice/Provisional rules do it the right way, but
> I am not the person buying RA's insurance.
>
> alan
>
>
But rally is not racing, racing implies passing --- so one is on course next to another competitor, where as rally is competition against the clock! Don't kid yourself either people get fast tracked in racing often too.

That said with the speed and grip of current cars there needs to be a learning curve, oh and notes don't really help with learning to read the road as most folks think!

---

As always IMHO

SEAN TENNIS KF7JJR
SEATTLE, WASHINGTON
SAAB 99, SAAB 850
SAAB V4, SAAB 99T

SEANT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Technically, SCCA came up with it.
>
> Wasn't it the leader Spitzner?

Not sure. I got the draft well after Spitzner was gone.

> But rally is not racing, racing implies passing

** insert formula one joke here ***

> --- so one is on course next to another
> competitor, where as rally is competition against
> the clock!

except that if you are a newbie where do you get started in rally? back with the slower cars. when ross and i started, we were passing a lot of cars on stage. passing on stage is a lot harder than passing on a road course.

> Don't kid yourself either people get
> fast tracked in racing often too.

True.

> That said with the speed and grip of current cars
> there needs to be a learning curve,

That's my point.

> oh and notes
> don't really help with learning to read the road
> as most folks think!

Does anyone think that notes help with learning to read the road? It is kinda the opposite. It is all about learning to ignore your instinct to read the road and trust the notes instead.

alan

> > That said with the speed and grip of current
> cars
> > there needs to be a learning curve,
>
> That's my point.

When you refer to "current cars", are you including 2WD, or do you mean the AWD cars?

---

Monika Hawkinson
Seattle, WA

Sofa King Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > > That said with the speed and grip of current cars
> > > there needs to be a learning curve,
> >
> > That's my point.
>
> When you refer to "current cars", are you
> including 2WD, or do you mean the AWD cars?

Are you asking me or Sean?

I believe that people can get in over their head in 2WD and AWD.

Though it is not quite a current car, I think that you could get into serious trouble in a TR7 V8 (TR8) rally car. 300 bhp, 85 inch wheelbase and RWD. That is why (if I ever get the TR7 built) I plan on starting out with the 100 bhp stock motor and build up the the V8.

Lane's Volvo could be dangerous in the wrong hands as well.

alan

Morten2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think there's a reason why Mitsu's and Subaru's
> are so plentiful.
>
> At least in Canada they're the only 2
> manufacturer's who offer a contingency program.
> With Subaru I believe it covers all years and for
> Mitsu it's 1998 and up.
>
> Fuck you even get money to just start and event
> and more money if you place in one of the Groups.
> Granted it's not alot of $$$ but it's certainly
> better than nothing.
>
> You get sliding scale compensation based on the
> distance you travel to tow to an event, just for
> towing to get there.
>
> Sure it may not be as exciting as RWD, but I think
> there's plenty of people who don't mind a bit of
> financial help and possibly these decisions are
> made when buying or building a car.
>
> Hence the Dominance of those 2 brands.


Good points Morten, the contigency certainly helps, but having a pretty much rally ready product, helps a lot as well.

What other newish car, sold here, could you possibly buy and reasonably expect to be competive over all.. without having to rely on massive amounts of superior skill, crazy engineering, or both.

I don`t think the contingency dollars offset the extra costs of rallying a relatively expensive 4WD car. And those plans need to get renewed each year don`t theyÉ (my keyboard has gone into some weird mode)

Cheers,

---

Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish