Dazed_Driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That was a cool vid, but I'm with Alan. Throwing
> that into the title is just taking a childish jab.

No you silly child, its a flat statement of fact.
Man you are silly, do you understand that?
You've not yet even entered the sport and you have less than zero idea of what occured 5 years ago much less 10-15 or 20 yeras gao in terms of participation, enthusiasm, spectator interest, and you make a statement about the current level of the sport.
S-I-L-L-Y.

The point which obviously needs clarifying, is that this old dino of a driver, probably in his mid 50s (gasp! they let them drive cars at that age!!??? Crazy French!) driving a "0" car, a rwd car at that generates far more excitement and identification in those who have seen the progession or more properly, the digression of the sprt, than do the sterile, mediocre driving in nearly every countrys' GpN National Championships.
If you are not aware of that, it does not mean it isn't the case.

Further, if we do not see in North America ANY driving remotely resembling this driving by an old guy in an old car running as a course opening car---a job typically given to older well known guys---- then what do you call the driving here including the not to sharp end of the blunt stick?

>
>
> Feisty Peacock?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2009 12:13AM by john vanlandingham.

heymagic Wrote:
> Since neither RA nor NRS require advance cars to
> be rally equipped such as helmets ,cages and fire
> suits speeds should be appropriate. When a car is
> actually at competition speeds then the driver and
> co-driver will be focusing on things other than
> spectators and side roads. The 0 should be run
> quickly but at sppeds that absolutely ensure it
> will finish the stage. Or require currently
> licensed competitors in full rally regalia run the
> 0 car. I have sat at the start of a stage for over
> an hour because 2 dumbasses in advance cars
> wrecked...think Olympus and Hollywood...

First, I said 'close to competition speed', not competition speed.

Second, once you get used to those speeds, you'd be surprised how much you notice. Well, maybe you'd be surprised at the things that I notice.

Third, car 0 and its occupants should have full safety gear. The car 0 for Team Fugawi (the group of cars that do most of the course opening for PNW and BC events) has full safety gear and Lee and whoever ends up in the co-driver seat wear full safety gear.

Car 0 is not some ceremonial position that you give to some celebrity.

It would be nice if the first competing car on a new stage was not the first person to ever see the road at something approaching competition speed.

alan

Uh, John, I'm sorry if I'm going to interrupt your crusade with this... but that subject line has NOTHING to do with the video... except it is rally related. There is no US national series involved, and its not the current (plummeted) WRC.... so...

Why is that in the title? Its not relevant to the video you posted, so its a tasteless jab.

Whether or not I've been in the sport long enough to remember "the good old days" or not isnt the point here. You can't always fall back on that. I'll give you the BEST ammo for that right now too. I WAS NOT EVEN BORN until 89. Yes... I'm 20. But even I, clearly a fool, can tell between a subject with humor in it, and a subject line with a worn out, uncalled for, ill relevant, jab at the most promotional aspect of rally TODAY (not in the 80's-90's) in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Not Europe. HERE.

I just yesterday walked into a go kart track lobby and it had a Travis Pastrana rally poster, signed by him, hanging up in the lobby. LOTS of youth see that. Clear on his car, is subaru and rally america. Whats going to get googled, should it spark curiosity? "French 0 car hauling ass?" I dont think so. Probably "Pastrana rally" or "rally america"

I'm not sure why you jab at a means of exposure to the sport you seem to love to hate.

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Dazed_Driver Wrote:

Timmy, I am not going to argue with you about this incessantly.

You want to suck Travis' cock, then do it, I ain't into shit like that.

I don't accept that you have the judgement to tell me about tasteless anything, I do not respect your opinions on values.
I still remember a telephone call 2 years ago while i was working and we had just towed your empty roller shell where you we all hot to ask what i thought of FUCKING CARBON FIBER HOOD SCOOPS.
You do not have judgement, and your arguing about shit you relayy have only the most superficial aquaintene with shows a lack of judgement and a marked immaturity.

You with your limited experience may not see any connection between this really exciting driving and the poor quality of the WRC show and most so called "Top level" shit in hyper expensive turbo 4wd cars, but that doesn't mean there is no connection.

Pedantic Lesson time: sometimes, clever people understand the idea of compare and contrast and wise people understand that sometimes there is a suggestion of a solution implied in statements...people don't always have to speak in some highly simplistic mode, sorry!
-------------------------------------------------------
> Uh, John, I'm sorry if I'm going to interrupt your
> crusade with this... but that subject line has
> NOTHING to do with the video... except it is rally
> related. There is no US national series involved,
> and its not the current (plummeted) WRC.... so...
>
> Why is that in the title? Its not relevant to the
> video you posted, so its a tasteless jab.
>
> Whether or not I've been in the sport long enough
> to remember "the good old days" or not isnt the
> point here. You can't always fall back on that.
> I'll give you the BEST ammo for that right now
> too. I WAS NOT EVEN BORN until 89. Yes... I'm 20.
> But even I, clearly a fool, can tell between a
> subject with humor in it, and a subject line with
> a worn out, uncalled for, ill relevant, jab at the
> most promotional aspect of rally TODAY (not in the
> 80's-90's) in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Not
> Europe. HERE.

Who the fuck do you think you are to decide if ANYTHING is uncalled for.
Look Timmy, this is a discusion forum, not a Timmy whine at John forum because Timmy has swallowed some line of bullshit and has some secret fantasies of some bright future for American rally.
>
> I just yesterday walked into a go kart track lobby
> and it had a Travis Pastrana rally poster, signed
> by him, hanging up in the lobby. LOTS of youth see
> that. Clear on his car, is subaru and rally
> america. Whats going to get googled, should it
> spark curiosity? "French 0 car hauling ass?" I
> dont think so. Probably "Pastrana rally" or "rally
> america"

But Timmy, WHAT FUCKING GOOD HAS THAT BROUGHT YOU< ME< ANY SINGLE PERSON ON THIS FORUM. A bunch of 14 year old kids in awe of Travvie and Kennie doesan't mean shit for anybody.
>
> I'm not sure why you jab at a means of exposure to
> the sport you seem to love to hate.

Again, childish simplistic thinking. Fuck me, amazing trying to discuss with you. it's pitiful.

Tim, everything in the world is not black and white. One can like even love certain aspects, certain qualities of things while simultaneously being neutral about others and not so fond about some aspects and neauseated by certain specific things all simultaneously.
It's called discrimination.
You lack it in thinking, in speaking and in writing.
You posit that one must "love it all" and that is beyond silly and immature.
It is frankly stupid.

I can admire and respect the volunteers, the friends who chip in and work on cars prepping them before an event or like Robert "Service Nazi" at service when Adam Crane was busy taking way too casual an approach to bleeding brakes and they thought they were all done and I quietly ask "Gee boys why is that dust cap on the spindle off-----and the bearing full of mud?" He (we) leap in the thing and pull the bearing , get the brake clean and grease and do what was needed on the spot, in the rain in the cold when we're just ambling by. I can admire the guys trying to flog cars hard.
I am neutral about some things like multiple classes for turbo 4wd cars.
And I can be disgusted about building up mediocre stuff via the promotion you seem to love into an image that is false and artificial.

Don't lecture me about tastelessness when the whole "Travvie and Kenny" and all the other WMG "crossover X-tremerz dude" shit is the epitome of tasteless.


If all the media bullshit hype is so motivating or effective, why haven't you finished off your car? You live at home, have a decent paying job, access to tools and stuff, a pile of parts and you're the top end of the target demographics.

Because the creation of some cult of personality doesn't do shit really.

Tell you what: YOU stop with your complaining about what I write. It's not directed at you, it doesn't affect you.
Your complaining is tiresome.
>
> Feisty Peacock?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dazed_Driver Wrote:
>
> Timmy, I am not going to argue with you about this
> incessantly.

Ok

>
> You want to suck Travis' cock, then do it, I ain't
> into shit like that.


Why do you bring penises into everything? Not once did I mention one....


>
> I don't accept that you have the judgement to tell
> me about tasteless anything, I do not respect your
> opinions on values.
>

Fair enough.



I still remember a telephone call 2 years ago
> while i was working and we had just towed your
> empty roller shell where you we all hot to ask
> what i thought of FUCKING CARBON FIBER HOOD
> SCOOPS.


And I remember that day, and how thankful I was. I remember you 2 years ago when you were not who you are now. And the scoop was aluminum, layed into a carbon pre preg hood, haha. In hindsight, you are/were right.


> You do not have judgement, and your arguing about
> shit you relayy have only the most superficial
> aquaintene with shows a lack of judgement and a
> marked immaturity.

I've had ups and downs. Who hasnt?


>
> You with your limited experience may not see any
> connection between this really exciting driving
> and the poor quality of the WRC show and most so
> called "Top level" shit in hyper expensive turbo
> 4wd cars, but that doesn't mean there is no
> connection.

You're right. I see a european rally team using their car to its capabilities. I do not see a connection with any current us series. However, I do think its a little stretched to find one. It's also a matter of what is "Exciting." you seem to only like really sideways cars, where I like cars that go fast, just not in left turns or straightlines.

Clearly, you can't say im wrong because i dont like sideways... as its an opinion.

BUT, as you said, you dont have to respect it.


>
> Pedantic Lesson time: sometimes, clever people
> understand the idea of compare and contrast and
> wise people understand that sometimes there is a
> suggestion of a solution implied in
> statements...people don't always have to speak in
> some highly simplistic mode, sorry!

Well, if "people" werent always yelling about one thing or another, when they do it, it's deeper meaning might not be overlooked for the simplistic exterior it provides.


> --------------------------------------------------
> Who the fuck do you think you are to decide if ANYTHING is uncalled for.
>Look Timmy, this is a discusion forum, not a Timmy whine at John forum because >Timmy has swallowed some line of bullshit and has some secret fantasies of some >bright future for American rally.


Yes, swear at me more. It helps get your point across. This is a discussion forum, who are you to tell me I cant voice my opinion of it being uncalled for?

I'm not sure what to think of your secret fantasies comment.



>
> But Timmy, WHAT FUCKING GOOD HAS THAT BROUGHT
> YOU< ME< ANY SINGLE PERSON ON THIS FORUM. A
> bunch of 14 year old kids in awe of Travvie and
> Kennie doesan't mean shit for anybody.

Again, the swearing and caps dont help me understand you, I am an educated person. And it means that maybe, if only 1 out of 100 people who see it go home and decide to learn more, they might end up volunteering, crewing, driving, who knows. It's advertising.



>

> Again, childish simplistic thinking. Fuck me,
> amazing trying to discuss with you. it's pitiful.

When did I insult you?

>
> Tim, everything in the world is not black and
> white.


definitely not. In fact, I havent found on black, or white situation.... just varying shades of gray.


One can like even love certain aspects,
> certain qualities of things while simultaneously
> being neutral about others and not so fond about
> some aspects and neauseated by certain specific
> things all simultaneously.

I completely agree


> It's called discrimination.

yup

> You lack it in thinking, in speaking and in
> writing.

no.


> You posit that one must "love it all" and that is
> beyond silly and immature.
> It is frankly stupid.

No, thats not what I meant. I should have clarified. Obviously, you like the sport as you have dedicated years of your time to compete and produce parts and pieces and to helping new comers. But you also rag on various aspects of it a lot.

I can equate it to running track for myself. I HATED track practices, but I loved the meets. Maybe its not the best example and perhaps I should have phrased it differently the first time. My mistake.

>
> I can admire and respect the volunteers, the
> friends who chip in and work on cars prepping them
> before an event or like Robert "Service Nazi" at
> service when Adam Crane was busy taking way too
> casual an approach to bleeding brakes and they
> thought they were all done and I quietly ask "Gee
> boys why is that dust cap on the spindle
> off-----and the bearing full of mud?" He (we) leap
> in the thing and pull the bearing , get the brake
> clean and grease and do what was needed on the
> spot, in the rain in the cold when we're just
> ambling by. I can admire the guys trying to flog
> cars hard.



> I am neutral about some things like multiple
> classes for turbo 4wd cars.

...I've heard you say the one of the biggest problems are the multiple 2wd and 4wd classes....

> And I can be disgusted about building up mediocre
> stuff via the promotion you seem to love into an
> image that is false and artificial.

So... people building production 2wd cars bothers you?


>
> Don't lecture me about tastelessness when the
> whole "Travvie and Kenny" and all the other WMG
> "crossover X-tremerz dude" shit is the epitome of
> tasteless.
>
>
> If all the media bullshit hype is so motivating or
> effective, why haven't you finished off your car?
> You live at home, have a decent paying job, access
> to tools and stuff, a pile of parts and you're the
> top end of the target demographics.

There are lots of reasons. Why isnt your black car done? Some of your reasons might be the same or very similar to mine. Some probably are completely different.


>
> Because the creation of some cult of personality
> doesn't do shit really.

Cult?

>
> Tell you what: YOU stop with your complaining
> about what I write. It's not directed at you, it
> doesn't affect you.

sometimes it does, some times it doesnt effect me. It depends on the post.


> Your complaining is tiresome.
> >
> > Feisty Peacock?
>
>
>
>
> John Vanlandingham
> Sleezattle, WA, USA
>
> Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
>
> www.jvab.f4.ca


I said it was a distasteful jab, you said I was silly and unaware, I gave my side and you have blown it WAY out of proportion. This is the internet, don't take it so seriously. We both have better things to be doing then arguing with each other, especially online. My comment was 1 sentence. You wrote an essay. The only reason I've replied is its 2:15ish in the morning, and I cannot sleep. Insomnia's a bitch. Anyway, I'm going to go lay down and stare at the ceiling.

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

So how come Alan and I can argue points and still be social? And the 0 car at DooWops dropped out from a blown motor this year, and 2 advance cars were wrecked at OT last year, and I've been plenty fast as the FCO without any input from advance cars. Quickly is fine, near comp speed is fine, but it has to be done at a speed that is guaranteed to complete the stage.

Our National series is fine, Travis is a bit squirelly, but so what,He has the world on a silver platter right now..go Travis. Block is plenty fast and getting faster. We don't have enough events in a year to allow anyone to reach OMG levels of skill. That's life in the US. A well driven Euro 2wd on Youtube is not a comment on US rally in any form let alone the hard work that RA and thousands of hardworking volunteers put into it.

Why is JVL so homophobic? Maybe an uncle with a monacle, thin mustache, cigarette held backwards..." Hmm, vot haff vee here leetle boy?"

"But Timmy, WHAT FUCKING GOOD HAS THAT BROUGHT YOU< ME< ANY SINGLE PERSON ON THIS FORUM. A bunch of 14 year old kids in awe of Travvie and Kennie doesan't mean shit for anybody"

Often people get involved in a sport because of their "heroes", influences, marketing, posters, etc.

Oh hey look - that's a cool poster. Rally what's that ? Oh I know, I'll google it when I get home. It doesn't matter who's on the poster, it's the exposure today that will drive rally tomorrow.

It may not bring "good" to anyone on this forum today but that's not to say that if won't in the future.

Kinda funny that young Timm is showing a remarkable amount of maturity,patience and composure...

Also seems rude to pick on a 20 year old in the midst of a damn cool build that most 20 year old kids couldn't even dream of attempting... (Hell - he's WAY ahead of where I was at age 20!)

The vid that JVL linked is pretty damn cool though - I can give him that. I was thoroughly entertained.

Rabin





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2009 03:21PM by bean.

John,

I saw this vid on Turbobricks the other day. I have seen this Sierra before, unsure if it's the same driver but it's always spectacular to watch. As much crap as John talks about tarmac rallys this vid has to have had something special about it for him to mention it. JV has expressed to me on countless occasions his frustration with local rally events, and really rally today in general. He is an old curmudgeon after all and did get to experience at least part of the "golden era of rallying". I hear what John's saying... Though you have to have had other conversations with him to put this one in perspective. Sometimes you need to be able to step back and understand the individual before you can understand the current discussion.

P.s.

John,

I know your having fun with all of this. But give me a call when you get a hold of James at the shop. I doubt it's going to happen today but even word of when my car may return to me would be a sweet bday gift.

---

Name: Dawud Jackson (DJ)
Age: 30
Location: Seattle, WA
Occupation: Computer dude.

Dazed_Driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> And I remember that day, and how thankful I was. I
> remember you 2 years ago when you were not who you
> are now.

Just for the record, I've know JV for 23 years and he's always been this way...

Doivi Clarkinen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hell yeah! That's the kind of video that inspires
> me to get working on my Opel!
>
> You know, if the 0 car drove like that on a U.S.
> rally I'm pretty sure the organizers would have
> them arrested....

Yeah....I seem to remember an Opel "0" Car in the Capital Forest about 15 years ago. The Organizers wanted to linch that guy too. Roads were a little icy in the AM..."O" time was in the top three.... etc., etc.

(Any bells ringing?)


Rich Smith

bean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kinda funny that young Timm is showing a
> remarkable amount of maturity,patience and
> composure...

Fuck! So, talking bullshit, and failing to see a point that just today at least three other non-rally guys caught pretty quickly is "remarkable.....blah blah"
>
> Also seems rude to pick on a 20 year old in the
> midst of a damn cool build that most 20 year old
> kids couldn't even dream of attempting... (Hell -
> he's WAY ahead of where I was at age 20!)

Personally I found it rude that a kid who doesn't even know he doesn't know anything should be telling ANYBODY to shut up, which is the essence of the majority of his posts here.

Rude is often a matter of perspective.
>
> The vid that JVL linked is pretty damn cool though
> - I can give him that. I was thoroughly
> entertained.

And the one guy who called me on Xratty business saw coonection with no promting.
The vid was exciting and the performance is attainable in cars that normal humans can afford to build and run. He said "Man, THAT is exactly what I want my car to be able to do!!!! If I can drive like that, that's another question!"

And this guy is talking of his street car.

>
> Rabin
>
>
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at Mar 20, 2009 by bean.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I think that the point John was trying to make with the title was "look what other people have been doing while interest......."

My opinion on this thread is split.

National rally in America has always been a shambles. Even the club level rallies in Africa were better than what we call a National here.

I am ambivalent about Pastrana and I hate the Barf Games. But I will admit that they have raised the awareness of rally in America. A die hard NASCAR coworker mentioned that he saw a program about Travis P. and thought it was cool. That has got to be worth something.

Robert.

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

JVL - Please take a breath and actually read my post. Was a side taken? Was an opinion offered on who was correct? (I'll give you a hint - it's NO)

I simply commented on how Timm responded to your hostile and personal attack. It wasn't necessary, and he really handled it well. Especially surprising since he's a customer of yours.

Discuss the ideas all you want - I could care less, but can you actually discuss the points being offered without it turning into totally and unrelated personal attacks?


Rabin




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2009 01:46AM by bean.

Excellent footage. Oh, and alan has a point:

"... and the National SP championship is not a poor joke ..."

Damn straight, there's no way I'll *EVER* be able to afford participation in it. So it is indeed not 'poor'.

---

Kirk Coughlin
Woodbury, MN and River Falls, WI

Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.