Well, my cage is finished, and I have started on the wiring. My question is what steps do I need to take to get logbook for the cage ? should I do it before any interior painting and such?

Thanks.

Got any pics you can send me or post here?
I have to come up that way again soon to visit my old bddy JVL and look at his cars.

Gene

Damn, way to miss the wagon!

You have to bribe people with food at resturants with crazy waiters.

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

heymagic Wrote:
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> Got any pics you can send me or post here?
> I have to come up that way again soon to visit my
> old bddy JVL and look at his cars.
>
> Gene


Yeah, since you didn't call back....
lesse, there's Seans Xratty on the Eastside, Scott Koch's in Ballard and mine here by Sleeze-Tacky Hairport.

Loadsa fun, eh 3 Xratties in a day!
Lets talk, I cleaned the junk outta mine.

And Sean, yeah it would be wise to do the look-see thing before painting just in case you have to add or alter junk-n-stuff.

Can you haul the thang over here and save Gene running to the dreaded Eastside?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I live in Edmonds, and work in Bellevue, the car is at home. I could for sure drag it down to Johns house anytime if that makes it easier.

here are a few pics.

You gonna do some stitch welding in that thing?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

those tube gussets are wicked-pissah! that legal? very cool, different look.




also, I noticed you don't have the other X-brace that I've seen on some cars that goes from the top of your b-pillar junction and ties in back to the top of the rear strut towers. Is that a FIA thing? Or just extra safety-super-baller "I've got an extra 10 feet of tubing so I'll make another X with it" option?

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Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

You need to put the taco style gussets in, tubes are notlegal. Good news is you can leave the tubes and put the gussets over them. You need two gussets on the A pillar support bar at the top door bar. I can't see the outboard seat belt mounts, looks like the inboard ones should be a tad bigger. Are the inboard mounts re-located from stock? What about the shoulder belts?

Nice looking welds.

From the RA website courtesy of Mike Hurst.

http://www.rally-america.com/info/2008_Rollcage.pdf

Gene,

I was wondering about those tube gussets.

I don't have a NASA rule book at hand but is there a specific minimum load test for the seat belt mounts?

Robert.

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Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

Something that you might want to rethink is the door X. In a side impact, the short, upper part of the X can fail and go into the occupant. An alternative is making the X out of continuous upper and lower halves.

alan





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2009 01:38PM by tipo158.

Has anyone seen that happen with an 'x' that has been gusseted?

From what I've heard, it happened in one accident where had the occupants not died from the head injuries, they'd have died from the blood loss from femoral artery being stabbed by a broken X.
Post that accident it's become recommended in the US, though I've not seen it widely implemented by people outside the US from pictures I've seen. However most of the 2006 and newer model cars FIA cage kits do use the bent tube method.

---

Grant Hughes

tipo158 Wrote:
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> > Something that you might want to rethink in the
> door X. In a side impact, the short, upper part
> of the X can fail and go into the occupant. An
> alternative is making the X out of continuous
> upper and lower halves.
>
> alan
>
>
Alan, a properly welded and gusseted "X" doorbar is highly unlikely to fail that way. This can be screened in a logbook inspection. I think if there was an example of a failure here you have to consider the quality of the welds and the gussets (or lack thereof.) However, as to the continuous upper and lower style of "X" bar that seems to be in favor now I think there is something many (including the powers that be) are not considering. Neither of the bars are in tension. Mike Hurst likes to claim that Nascar style door bars that bend out into the doors are no good because they are not in tension and can bend farther into the car if you hit a tree sideways. Well the "X" with the two continuous bars would be even worse for this! The contact area between the two bends is so small that the weld there will do nothing to keep the bars from swinging in towards the occupants. You are completely relying on the the gussets to keep the bars together and keep this from happening. Those gussets better be very good and the same thickness as the tube! On the other hand, the three piece, intersecting "X" arrangement always has a bar in tension. The likelihood of one of the bars breaking off is much less than the two continuous ones swinging in under tension, and bad welds and gussets can be caught in the logbook inspection and corrected.
Discuss.

heymagic Wrote:

>
> Nice looking welds.
>
> From the RA website courtesy of Mike Hurst.
>
>

^^Is that REALLY all there is to an RA legal cage? so all the other additional supports, 'X' bars, etc, are all just OPTIONAL safety and strengthening?

---

Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

Doivi Clarkinen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tipo158 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Something that you might want to rethink in the
> > door X. In a side impact, the short, upper part
> > of the X can fail and go into the occupant. An
> > alternative is making the X out of continuous
> > upper and lower halves.
>
> Alan, a properly welded and gusseted "X" doorbar
> is highly unlikely to fail that way. This can be
> screened in a logbook inspection. I think if
> there was an example of a failure here you have to
> consider the quality of the welds and the gussets
> (or lack thereof.)

As far as I have seen, many door bars were add-ons to existing cages and did not go through a logbook inspection. The first time a tech inspector saw them, they were painted and maybe even covered with padding. It is harder to evaluate the quality of the weld under those conditions.

Right now, the FIA Institute recommends the continuous upper and lower "X" bar over the split "X" bar. They see more wrecked cages than I will ever see.

I have heard of split "X" bars failing as described. I don't know if they were gusseted. I don't know the quality of the welds. I do know that that kind of failure is a lot more possible than with continuous upper and lower bars.

Do split "X" bars have an advantage over continuous bars?

Finally, recall that I recommended that he "rethink". He might do so and decide that the risk is comparatively low and stick with what he has. Another option would be, particular since he needs to make a bunch of taco gussets anyway is to add them to the top and bottom of the center of the door bar.

As far as the split vs. continuous X bar, I don't think that you described the continuous bar as I have seen them done in practice. However, I don't have time to get into a big discussion.

alan