Sad but true, yes.

But most everybody builds beyond and more to FIA-spec looking cages. R-A only requires a 6 point, so most everyone does 8 and others to 10 and beyond.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2009 03:13PM by BillyElliot.

phlat65 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, so I took a deep breath, and all is good.
>
> As far as changing over to a Taco style gusset,
> what is going to be the acceptable method? can I
> make some triangles and fill in the area using the
> tube gusset as the "wrap around", or do I need to
> overkill it and overlay a Taco?
>
>


I should think welding in some triangles and both sides to complete the taco, while not being the normal way to do it and not looking as nice, would accomplish the same thing as a taco. Your welding looks good so it should look fine. But I suppose Gene should way in on this for a more official ruling.
And don't forget the sill bars!

Uhh. Sill bars aren't required in RA technically if you read FIA 253.
Depends upon what rules you are building to.
Plate gussets are not allowed in RA either for new construction. Must be as in FIA 253, which is taco style.
They're not hard to make either and don't take very long.

---

Grant Hughes

I was going by this picture

http://www.rally-america.com/info/2008_Rollcage.gif

And it shows a door sill bar. So /shrug?

Still a good thing to have in the car even if it isn't "required" which is the whole thing that bursts my bubble in cage design. Safety stuff shouldn't be built to a minimum, but you gotta have something at least.

That picture shows the bare minimum.
The rules says, two continuous bars or something of that nature.

---

Grant Hughes

BillyElliot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was going by this picture
>
>
>
> And it shows a door sill bar. So /shrug?
>
> Still a good thing to have in the car even if it
> isn't "required" which is the whole thing that
> bursts my bubble in cage design. Safety stuff
> shouldn't be built to a minimum, but you gotta
> have something at least.

I'm still learning to I want to make sure I understand Grants comment: you have those two bars, you just crossed them in the middle (acceptable, with the already mentioned debate).

sill bar would be a 3rd bar across the door, underneath the X. (?)

---

Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

Sean,
Yes you can plate over the tubes on both sides with sheet . Kind of like gusset simulators This is your official acceptance of the gusset resolution.

RA uses FIA 253 for the cage. All that is shown in the illustration is the minimum required to be legal. It's been deemed the minimum needed for occupant safety. It not built for chassis rigidity. You can certainly add more strngth to it.

2 door bars are required. Personally I would always add a sill bar if using the x bar configuration and many people do.


Gene McCullough
RA Western tech supervisor

I did not see any reference to sill bars in the FIA 253 pages, but I could be wrong. Sill bars would be fairly straight forward.

Doivi Clarkinen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> phlat65 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > OK, so I took a deep breath, and all is good.
>
> > As far as changing over to a Taco style gusset,
> > what is going to be the acceptable method? can I
> > make some triangles and fill in the area using the
> > tube gusset as the "wrap around", or do I need to
> > overkill it and overlay a Taco?
>
> I should think welding in some triangles and both
> sides to complete the taco, while not being the
> normal way to do it and not looking as nice, would
> accomplish the same thing as a taco. Your welding
> looks good so it should look fine. But I suppose
> Gene should way in on this for a more official
> ruling.

Strict reading of Article 253 would not allow triangles. It defines a gusset as taco style ("bent sheet metal with a U shape".

phlat65 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I did not see any reference to sill bars in the
> FIA 253 pages, but I could be wrong. Sill bars
> would be fairly straight forward.

Sill bars are a NASA RallySport requirement, not 253 nor RallyAmerica. You'd be better off plating over the tubes as they are not effective as is. Adding a sill bar would be a good idea just because.

Gene

tipo158 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doivi Clarkinen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > phlat65 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > OK, so I took a deep breath, and all is
> good.
> >
> > > As far as changing over to a Taco style
> gusset,
> > > what is going to be the acceptable
> method? can I
> > > make some triangles and fill in the area
> using the
> > > tube gusset as the "wrap around", or do
> I need to
> > > overkill it and overlay a Taco?
> >
> > I should think welding in some triangles and
> both
> > sides to complete the taco, while not being
> the
> > normal way to do it and not looking as nice,
> would
> > accomplish the same thing as a taco. Your
> welding
> > looks good so it should look fine. But I
> suppose
> > Gene should way in on this for a more
> official
> > ruling.
>
> Strict reading of Article 253 would not allow
> triangles. It defines a gusset as taco style
> ("bent sheet metal with a U shape".
>

Actually putting plates over those tubes would be stronger than just a taco gusset. But again officially that is all he has to do.

ok, a bit of a hijack:

i have been thinking about updating some parts of the cage on my GTX. if i add stuff to the cage, do i need to do anything like get the car re-log booked? its not like there are pictures of the cage in the log book as it is.

i am assuming as long as your cage meets the min. for RA/NASA (which it currently doesn't because Dave hates spider webs but no one seems to care) it doesn't matter if you add more stuff to it?

heymagic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tipo158 Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > Strict reading of Article 253 would not allow
> > triangles. It defines a gusset as taco style
> > ("bent sheet metal with a U shape".
>
> Actually putting plates over those tubes would be
> stronger than just a taco gusset. But again
> officially that is all he has to do.

I agree and I agree.

I spoke with the cage builder today and it turns out that he had spoken with me about gussets and misunderstood the advice that I had given him.

alan

DirkaDirkaJack Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ok, a bit of a hijack:
>
> i have been thinking about updating some parts of
> the cage on my GTX. if i add stuff to the cage, do
> i need to do anything like get the car re-log
> booked? its not like there are pictures of the
> cage in the log book as it is.
>
> i am assuming as long as your cage meets the min.
> for RA/NASA (which it currently doesn't because
> Dave hates spider webs but no one seems to care)
> it doesn't matter if you add more stuff to it?
>
>

Yes and no...you can add bars and be pretty creative but you can put bars in wrong places and run afoul of scrutineering pretty fast. Best if you ask first and avoid unpleasantries later.

tipo158 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> heymagic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > tipo158 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Strict reading of Article 253 would not
> allow
> > > triangles. It defines a gusset as taco
> style
> > > ("bent sheet metal with a U shape".
> >
> > Actually putting plates over those tubes
> would be
> > stronger than just a taco gusset. But again
> > officially that is all he has to do.
>
> I agree and I agree.
>
> I spoke with the cage builder today and it turns
> out that he had spoken with me about gussets and
> misunderstood the advice that I had given him.
>
> alan
>
>


Never take advise from a really brite computer geek who wants to rally an old Triumph. Kind of a yin-yang thang....the Dark Overlords of the universe and Howard the duck all over again.