Last weekend I was driving my street car (yeah, it's a Sub-a-rat, John) around New Hampshire Motor Speedway's 1.6 mile road course, at a sanctioned time trial. I was probably getting up to 125mph on front straight and averaging 60-70 mph, for 2 days. In my street car. No harnesses, lame-ass hans devices, roll cage or fire suit required. No costly notes, or hard-drinking navvie required, either. Blah, blah, blah. So were a 100 or so other guys. Sort of made me think about rallying and it's ever changing safety requirements.

Yeah, the track is wider than the roads used by STPR. Yeah, there are some trees and concrete walls, some with tires in front, but generally more run-off space. 2 blind crests,too. I got about 2-1/2 hours driving time. Got the adrenaline flowing and learned a lot. $390 entry fee. The club I was running with has been doing this sort of thing for 51 years. They have a good safety record. It's an hour from home and I can drive my car there. No towing. No hotel cost. There clean bathrooms with showers, in the pits and for another $25 you can rent a garage with shop air.

Don't tell them you're an "experienced" rally driver or they'll never let you go run solo.

What the HELL did the US performance rally community do wrong, besides everything?

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Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

100 other guys helped you split the costs.

EVERYTHING I have tried to do since way back in May 1984 Wild West is toward getting fields of 100-150 to spread the costs.

All this Commie and Socialist posters and talk I do is all about collectively spreading all the burdens out.

How do you spose 100-140 mile enduros--a fawk of a lot more work to set up the route--do it with cheap ass entries?

Numbers.

And oh, people don't run out and buy 10K-30K enduro bikes and THEN spend that much more to build them.

Don't worry Ted, even if it is a Sub-a-rat, they are fun, just expensive when you really beat on them, but you're rich , you can afford it!


Oh, and I'll bet you a nickel that they did not write their rules in a way which mandates flying in, lodging, feeding and escorting around a van-load of Mid-western guys to do routine jobs which have always historically been filled out of the local pool of crazies.

That may have saved a few bucks.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Yup, a 100 or so,entry fees sure helps. But, consider the track rental. NHMS is a big, well equipped facility that is booked every weekend and plenty of week days and charges accordingly.

The time trial club is based out of Mass. and doesn't have to staff a national office like SCCA or RA, so that must help keep costs in check.

I really like the run-what-ya-brung-boy rule book as well as the local aspect of it.

Those Sub-a-rats can get expensive even though I don't adequately beat on them. ;-)

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Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

Why wont they let you run solo if you tell them you've rallied?

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

tedm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> What the HELL did the US performance rally
> community do wrong, besides everything?


Ted, dude!

You're kidding right? Are there some memory killing heavy metals in the water up there in New Hampshire?

You've forgotten about the 1998 Kurt Spitzner proposal and his goose-stepping Hitler youth yes-men that were going to change U.S. rally into a NASCAR clone?

Hell, I don't even really blame Spitzner. If the Hitler youth hadn't been kissing Kurt's ass Kurt's agenda would have gone down in flames within days.

Me? I'm a distant memory low on cash and with heart disease, so from a distance I watch the sport I loved in the 70's being dismantled and destroyed bit by bit, year by year, decade by decade.

Jens Larsen
Flying Kiwi Racing







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2009 04:11PM by Jens.

tedm Wrote:
What the HELL did the US performance rally
> community do wrong?
...
The club I was running with has been doing
> this sort of thing for 51 years. They have a good
> safety record.

Rally kills people.
You attended a school and practice event with some implied control.
Rally has no school requirements and is a race with nearly no control.
ie: a jr driver has entered ~5 events and totaled 2 cars.
He believes he's a hot property and dad has enough $ to keep him at it.
That's the difference.

I'm sure the same way that in 24 hours of LeMons they don't consider a RA/NASA rally license a "racing license" in that you don't have experience on track with multiple cars.

However, this seems just like a track day, so I don't understand why they would not let you run solo.

And if it is a time trial with no cages/suits/etc, I'd guess they do staggered starts or something? I have a local track and the corvette club does a 4th of July "autocross" on the track. They setup some cones to keep you carrying too much speed onto the main straight (doesn't really do much for me, I still hit 100 on the straight) but that's it.

Randy, maybe rally is killing the wrong people. ;-) Seriously, track events don't? Maybe at a lower rate? NHMS has killed off two people that I know of. I know I don't have to buy a hans or 2 and tow 8 hours into Canada to find an event.

"Why wont they let you run solo if you tell them you've rallied?" I don't know, I didn't ask. Maybe they watched too much Nitro Circus. ;-) I just stopped mentioning rally and things eventually improved.

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Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

The underwriters that insure the track have been to the facility and are comfortable with the whole idea. They are not comfortable rally "out in the open". That has to be a big part of the cost. Does anyone know what NASA or RA pays for insurance on one rally?

Robert.

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

tedm Wrote:

> The club I was running with has been doing
> this sort of thing for 51 years. They have a good
> safety record.

My local track had a time trial fatality at the end of last season. Think there was another before that.

Posted Nov 11, 2008

The National Auto Sport Association (NASA) regretfully announces the passing of Cale Kastanek of Hagerstown, MD from injuries suffered as a result of an accident on November 9, 2008 at Summit Point Raceway in Summit Point, WV. Cale was a champion competitor, seasoned instructor, and great friend to many in the motorsports community and the NASA Mid Atlantic family. Cale was active in many forms of motorsports including Time Trial, autocross, and also many other activities related to his love of the Honda S2000. Cale was also a professional pilot and an avid mountain bike enthusiast. Cale will be missed sorely and we wish him Godspeed.


http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&p=171789

IMHO, Timetrials and HPDE were created for a cheap way to get new racers involved racing on a track that evolved to practically ClubRacing w/o the safety equipment. This S2000 had no cage and the driver was turning mid 1:24s on the main track.

Maybe your track has better runoff, gravel traps and tire walls.

CommanderSalamander Wrote:
Maybe your track has better runoff, gravel traps
and tire walls.
>
Been to both many times and NHIS has some of the most dangerous track features I can think of.
Coming out of NASCAR #2 at the highest speed of the lap, you brake hard facing a concrete wall (RED) placed across the track. A brake failure gives you no option. Re-entering the Oval track isn't much better.
Summit has the flat over crest deal that can rough up a car pretty bad if done wrong but otherwise, is pretty good for runoff although the runoff is pretty rough and full of rocks...

randyzimmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Coming out of NASCAR #2 at the highest speed of
> the lap, you brake hard facing a concrete wall
> (RED) placed across the track. A brake failure
> gives you no option.

*****I personally know three people who have completely written off their cars at this corner(Improved Touring race cars). Total brake failure = straight impact into concrete. Pretty ugly, and two of the guys got seriously hurt.

Bob

---

Opel is a 4-letter word...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10498579@N07/sets/

Here's another pic, the fun part is on a hilly mound that dips and dives.
Turn 9 is fun and some good speed can be gained down the hill but the transition to the new track surface is challenging and gets the car bouncing while that right hander (10) faces another wall. The exit onto the main straight faces a wall taken at 70+ and 1 & 2 are flat out. Lots of concrete almost everywhere. The bikes use the 1 & 2 infield chicane because they're smarter.
Ted, the old track ran in reverse and the carousel was downhill providing a good opportunity to do a big tire smoking slide in any car.
That was great fun and that uphill turn (4) was also downhill and protected by a big chunk of concrete on the outside hiding in the weeds. Those two turns are about all that's left of it.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2009 08:48AM by randyzimmer.

ooops, here's the map...

If I remember correctly, the AMA won't run bikes there because it's too dangerous...

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Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY