I got my SFI Foundation Certified Technical Inspector license in the mail today! Woo Hoo! I will now wildly issue log books! Just kidding. I will soberly inspect the graphics font on rally cars.

Robert.

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

Rallymech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I got my SFI Foundation Certified Technical
> Inspector license in the mail today! Woo Hoo! I
> will now wildly issue log books! Just kidding. I
> will soberly inspect the graphics font on rally
> cars.
>
> Robert.

Having the correct font for driver's and co-driver's names is vital.
I am shocked that you would joke about that.
I fully expect to see a long list of DNS from all the teams that don't toe the line.

Without rules, all is chaos!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Also: please be aware of the font size and style used for numbering. We need to make sure all cars conform to the standard!

are

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Am I the only one around here who gives a shit about the rules??!!

---

Michael LeCompte

Two inch Helvetica or DEATH!

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

pikespeakgtx Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Am I the only one around here who gives a shit
> about the rules??!!
>
> Michael LeCompte


some of us give a shit about the rules, about how to interpret them to our own crazy means and still be within them

Michael,

1 a: a prescribed guide for conduct or action b: the laws or regulations prescribed by the founder of a religious order for observance by its members c: an accepted procedure, custom, or habit d (1): a usually written order or direction made by a court regulating court practice or the action of parties (2): a legal precept or doctrine e: a regulation or bylaw governing procedure or controlling conduct

I care about the intent of the rules. If the desired intent of the rule or rules is being achieved I would tend to be understanding of some variance. The sticky part of all this is that I have to be careful to fully understand the intent of a rule. I have no problem asking the chief scrutineer or technical director if I was in doubt.

Robert.

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

Rallymech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Michael,
>
> 1 a: a prescribed guide for conduct or action b:
> the laws or regulations prescribed by the founder
> of a religious order for observance by its members
> c: an accepted procedure, custom, or habit d (1):
> a usually written order or direction made by a
> court regulating court practice or the action of
> parties (2): a legal precept or doctrine e: a
> regulation or bylaw governing procedure or
> controlling conduct
>
> I care about the intent of the rules. If the
> desired intent of the rule or rules is being
> achieved I would tend to be understanding of some
> variance. The sticky part of all this is that I
> have to be careful to fully understand the intent
> of a rule. I have no problem asking the chief
> scrutineer or technical director if I was in
> doubt.
>

If my memory serves me correctly, a possibly wise guy strongly advocated that class and safety rules should always have a brief statement explaining the purpose of the rule, or the reasons a rule was invented.
Thus done it would then be possible to weigh the rules goodness or badness against the purpose it was intended to address.

ie If there was something like "Due to excessively artistic and overly stylized scripts being used for driver and co-driver names in non contrasting colors ie cursive script in medium metallic green on medium metallic blue backgrounds, this rule addresses visibilty of driver and co-drivers names."

Sec 8: Driver's and co-drivers names shall be in a contrasting color to the background they are on. A clear bold font should be used approximately 50mm high minimum. Legibility and visibility are the key factors, and scrutineers are the judges of this requirement.

The current example of requiring "Helvetica Bold" or OR what? Barred from starting? It would be seen that it is beyond the intended goal of visibility and clarity, and would be open to challenge on the grounds of absurd nitpicking for no good reason.

It was also suggested that names of rules proponents be attached to rules proposals. Then the intent is made clearer in some cases.
> Robert.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

12xalt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pikespeakgtx Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > Am I the only one around here who gives a shit
> > about the rules??!!
>
> some of us give a shit about the rules, about how
> to interpret them to our own crazy means and still
> be within them

Hell, yeah! Y'know, that is the sign of a true Rules Geek.

When developing the POSIX standardization of the UNIX operating system, there was an annual "WeirdNIX" competition to come up with the more perverted, legal interpretation of the rules. Maybe I'll put together a competition like that for the RA rulebook.

alan

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If my memory serves me correctly, a possibly wise
> guy strongly advocated that class and safety rules
> should always have a brief statement explaining
> the purpose of the rule, or the reasons a rule was
> invented.

All of the new RA rules are now introduced through Bulletin and each of those Bulletin include a rationale that explains the reason for the rule change.

I wanted to put together a "Rationale for the RA PRR" book that explained the reason for all of the rules. The problem was a) I didn't have time (and I have less time now) and b) some of the rules have been around so long that they have become tradition and that is not a very satisfactory rationale.

alan

Rallymech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have no problem asking the chief
> scrutineer or technical director if I was in
> doubt.

He is just saying that because he will be doing tech at Olympus this week and I am Chief Scrutineer

alan

P.S. as far as names and fonts, the reason for Helvetica (technically, it is Helvetica Medium, but Helvetica Bold is close) is that it is part of a uniform visual identification package (with number backers and windscreen header) that is part of the "professional" look for the national series.

For standalone regionals, you just need something that stands out so the car can be identified.

tipo158 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rallymech Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have no problem asking the chief
> > scrutineer or technical director if I was in
> > doubt.
>
> He is just saying that because he will be doing
> tech at Olympus this week and I am Chief
> Scrutineer
>
> alan
>
> P.S. as far as names and fonts, the reason for
> Helvetica (technically, it is Helvetica Medium,
> but Helvetica Bold is close) is that it is part of
> a uniform visual identification package (with
> number backers and windscreen header) that is part
> of the "professional" look for the national
> series.

We know all about the foolishness surrounding the Visual Identification Package and the silly repeat SILLY idea of UNIFORMITY.
Uniformity is for military recruits, not adult men and women.
The series would look more "professional" if there were more than 21-30 cars and more people drove with a bit more vigor.
>
> For standalone regionals, you just need something
> that stands out so the car can be identified.

And sheeeee-ut I thought those big HUGE NUMBERS aided in identifying the car.....what the fuck was I thinking!!!!

Are the numbers there just so the series looks "more professional"?
>
>

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tipo158 Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > P.S. as far as names and fonts, the reason for
> > Helvetica (technically, it is Helvetica Medium,
> > but Helvetica Bold is close) is that it is part of
> > a uniform visual identification package (with
> > number backers and windscreen header) that is part
> > of the "professional" look for the national
> > series.
>
> We know all about the foolishness surrounding the
> Visual Identification Package and the silly repeat
> SILLY idea of UNIFORMITY.
> Uniformity is for military recruits, not adult men
> and women.

Personally, I don't think that the Visual ID package is foolish. We are just gonna have to disagree on this, because I don't think I could can convince you otherwise.

> The series would look more "professional" if there
> were more than 21-30 cars and more people drove
> with a bit more vigor.

Can't really write a rule for either of these, can we?

> > For standalone regionals, you just need something
> > that stands out so the car can be identified.
>
> And sheeeee-ut I thought those big HUGE NUMBERS
> aided in identifying the car.....what the fuck was
> I thinking!!!!

Those door numbers get covered in muck and are often unreadable. At some events, the car number also has to be displayed in places that don't get as dirty, such as the top of the windscreen. CARS was talking about moving the door number to the rear window glass (don't know if they did), since the numbers tend to stay cleaner there.

When the door numbers are covered in dirt, the names make it easier to identify which blue Subaru just went by. I did an O control when I was a Steward at PFR last year and had to use the window names to identify the car in many instances.

> Are the numbers there just so the series looks "more professional"?

Lots of competitors get attached to their numbers. When I see Rockrohr using 228, I think 'that's not right' because that will always be Ross Foster's number to me.

alan

CARS did change to the WRC format neon numbers on rear glass.

---

Gone fishing