tipo158 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 12xalt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > pikespeakgtx Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Am I the only one around here who gives
> a shit
> > > about the rules??!!
> >
> > some of us give a shit about the rules, about
> how
> > to interpret them to our own crazy means and
> still
> > be within them
>
> Hell, yeah! Y'know, that is the sign of a true
> Rules Geek.
>
> When developing the POSIX standardization of the
> UNIX operating system, there was an annual
> "WeirdNIX" competition to come up with the more
> perverted, legal interpretation of the rules.
> Maybe I'll put together a competition like that
> for the RA rulebook.
>
> alan
>
>
>


I don't know how many times I've heard Mike Bosch and Todd Lengacher say that they've told this person or that person what they're planning to do for XXX class and have been told "but that's NOT what the rules INTENDED". Yeah, well then they should have stated that, because everything we've done/planned still falls within the way the rules are WRITTEN.

12xalt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tipo158 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 12xalt Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > pikespeakgtx Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > > Am I the only one around here who
> gives
> > a shit
> > > > about the rules??!!
> > >
> > > some of us give a shit about the rules,
> about
> > how
> > > to interpret them to our own crazy means
> and
> > still
> > > be within them
> >
> > Hell, yeah! Y'know, that is the sign of a
> true
> > Rules Geek.
> >
> > When developing the POSIX standardization of
> the
> > UNIX operating system, there was an annual
> > "WeirdNIX" competition to come up with the
> more
> > perverted, legal interpretation of the rules.
>
> > Maybe I'll put together a competition like
> that
> > for the RA rulebook.
> >
> > alan
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> I don't know how many times I've heard Mike Bosch
> and Todd Lengacher say that they've told this
> person or that person what they're planning to do
> for XXX class and have been told "but that's NOT
> what the rules INTENDED". Yeah, well then they
> should have stated that, because everything we've
> done/planned still falls within the way the rules
> are WRITTEN.
>
>
>
>

Any time there is more than about 4 words in a rule someone sooner or later will try to do something the original author didn't think of. Doesn't mean it is a bad rule as such.
People are pretty clever ( well maybe not Todd so much ) It is in our nature to question stuff and circumvent rules every now and then.

heymagic Wrote:
-
>
> Any time there is more than about 4 words in a
> rule someone sooner or later will try to do
> something the original author didn't think of.
> Doesn't mean it is a bad rule as such.
> People are pretty clever ( well maybe not Todd so
> much ) It is in our nature to question stuff and
> circumvent rules every now and then.
>

Yeah. And the thing that worries me about a LOT of the rules is they are duplicating rules already in the State and County laws we have to fly under, and then idiotic bullshit like the mandate for, as I now stand corrected, Helvetica Medium as the STATED, ONLY approved font.
The problem is a) you might get a scrutineer stupid enough to take a sample of Helvetic Medium and bump every car that has anything else like the much despised Garamond or NY TIMES whatever.

Or worse some slimy biatch in some obscure class could protest the font, and then the same people, flown in from distant points at doubless great expense, not bright enough to foresee the folly of pointless specificity are now forced, to save face, to actually waste time to address the protest, rather than just slapping the biatch upside the head, and afterwards then in some 3 Stooges-like recrimination scenario, all slapping each other for writing the rule, and/or not editing it out.

Rules are like that. They have intent, and there ought to be hard, serious reasons why, not absurdities like this font bullshit or under the not lamented Robinson, specifying which can of True Value Hardware was the approved orange for tow hooks. That's just plain stupid.
>

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
> Yeah. And the thing that worries me about a LOT of
> the rules is they are duplicating rules already in
> the State and County laws we have to fly under,
> and then idiotic bullshit like the mandate for, as
> I now stand corrected, Helvetica Medium as the
> STATED, ONLY approved font.
> The problem is a) you might get a scrutineer
> stupid enough to take a sample of Helvetic Medium
> and bump every car that has anything else like the
> much despised Garamond or NY TIMES whatever.
>
> Or worse some slimy biatch in some obscure class
> could protest the font, and then the same people,
> flown in from distant points at doubless great
> expense, not bright enough to foresee the folly of
> pointless specificity are now forced, to save
> face, to actually waste time to address the
> protest, rather than just slapping the biatch
> upside the head, and afterwards then in some 3
> Stooges-like recrimination scenario, all slapping
> each other for writing the rule, and/or not
> editing it out.
>
> Rules are like that. They have intent, and there
> ought to be hard, serious reasons why, not
> absurdities like this font bullshit or under the
> not lamented Robinson, specifying which can of
> True Value Hardware was the approved orange for
> tow hooks. That's just plain stupid.
> >

Ahhhhhh the flying phlegm strikes again!

So tell us John.... How do you really feel?

---

JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

heymagic Wrote:
> Any time there is more than about 4 words in a
> rule someone sooner or later will try to do
> something the original author didn't think of.
> Doesn't mean it is a bad rule as such.
> People are pretty clever ( well maybe not Todd so
> much ) It is in our nature to question stuff and
> circumvent rules every now and then.
>
>

bwahahahahahaha

you're supposed to say that kind of shtuff after you use and abuse him at tech on Friday, not before

why do I get the feeling I should invest in some of this required lettering and take it with me and sell it at an increased price

JohnLane Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> > not lamented Robinson, specifying which can
> of
> > True Value Hardware was the approved orange
> for
> > tow hooks. That's just plain stupid.
> > >
>
> Ahhhhhh the flying phlegm strikes again!
>
> So tell us John.... How do you really feel?

I feel anybody who wrote such a rule, or the True Value Hardware Orange rule, are clearly neither fit to write rules of enforce rules.
It seems self evident.
Because rules means MUST, and the unstated thing is "If'n ya don't there are penalties" and we already saw under the Robinson/Spitzner regime which handed things over to the clique in the Midwest, "Bulletins" reminding us of the importance of the still stupidly named "VIP" bullshit and warnings "Cars not in compliance with the "VIP" package will not be allowed to start".
Idiots.
Cretins.

Howzat?
>
> JohnLane
>
> Overkill is consistently more fun

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

12xalt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> why do I get the feeling I should invest in some
> of this required lettering and take it with me and
> sell it at an increased price

Or you could go "help" competitors and swap out a couple of letters for some illegal font then write a note suggesting, wrap a rock up with the note and anonymously chuck it at some Hired Hand flown in for rules enforcement.

Or you could then start a whispering campaign, and eventually make clear that for a little "consideration" you tell the driver just which letters are gonna get him DQ!!!
Oh you are naughty!!!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

tipo158 Wrote:
> Personally, I don't think that the Visual ID
> package is foolish.

Well shoot Alan.... The 'Visual package' Kurt made sure that we all had with all stickers set just so made such a difference... I'm quite certain that several years later it will be at least as effective at bringing another Subaru or two out of the woodwork to add to the endless parade of poorly driven Dark Blue cars that can only be identified by the number on the door!

>
> > The series would look more "professional" if
> there
> > were more than 21-30 cars and more people
> drove
> > with a bit more vigor.

So John how do we get to more then 21-30 contestents having enough dough, time and interest to come out and play?
>
> Can't really write a rule for either of these, can
> we?

Sure.... Slow, poorly driven Subarus go to the back of the field; even if they enter the National for starters.
>
> Those door numbers get covered in muck and are
> often unreadable.

Alan if the numbers on my doors are so covered in mud as to be unreadable the names on the windows will likely be the same to worse. Good thing everyone knows my car by the noise and angle to the road it is driven at so as to be able to know who it is!

Oh.... My car is also ugly enough that it will not be confused with the rest of the Volvos out there.

>
> When the door numbers are covered in dirt, the
> names make it easier to identify which blue Subaru
> just went by.

Perhaps we need the poorly driven Parade to be painted in different colors?

Heehee!!

---

JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

> Howzat?

Oh I'm convinced!

You know what a fan I was of Heir Spitzner's reign and what went along with it.

---

JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

> Or you could then start a whispering campaign, and
> eventually make clear that for a little
> "consideration" you tell the driver just which
> letters are gonna get him DQ!!!
> Oh you are naughty!!!
>

Oooooo Evil Wicked Naughty!!

She must have a good Spanking!!

But first....

---

JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2009 12:02PM by JohnLane.

JohnLane Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tipo158 Wrote:
> > Personally, I don't think that the Visual ID
> > package is foolish.
>
> Well shoot Alan.... The 'Visual package' Kurt
> made sure that we all had with all stickers set
> just so made such a difference...

Like I said, I don't see much point in trying to argue this. I have been through this all before and don't think anyone arguing these points are likely to change their mind.

> I'm quite
> certain that several years later it will be at
> least as effective at bringing another Subaru or
> two out of the woodwork to add to the endless
> parade of poorly driven Dark Blue cars that can
> only be identified by the number on the door!

I think Mager is a good driver. His is the most recent blue Subaru to come out of the woodwork. Goodwin is too when he isn't crashing (sorry, Mike if you are reading this).


> > > The series would look more "professional" if there
> > > were more than 21-30 cars and more people drove
> > > with a bit more vigor.
>
> > Can't really write a rule for either of these, can
> > we?
>
> Sure.... Slow, poorly driven Subarus go to the
> back of the field; even if they enter the National
> for starters.

Speed Factor is an (imperfect) way to do this. Start order based on actual stage performance. There are known problems, but we also go over the start order and change it to try to make sure cars are started in order of speed (or, at least, aren't likely to catch the previous car before the end of a stage).

> > Those door numbers get covered in muck and are
> > often unreadable.
>
> Alan if the numbers on my doors are so covered in
> mud as to be unreadable the names on the windows
> will likely be the same to worse.

Judging from my experience, that is usually not true. Sometimes it is true, but not so often. Just judging from my experience.

> Perhaps we need the poorly driven Parade to be
> painted in different colors?

I'll have the spray bombs at Olympus scrutineering, ready to go

alan

JohnLane Wrote:

> >
>
> Oh Evil Wicked Naughty!!
>
> She must have a good Spanking!!
>
> But first....
>
> JohnLane
>
> Overkill is consistently more fun


best suggestion yet

> I'll have the spray bombs at Olympus
> scrutineering, ready to go


I'll be sure to bring a case of inverted-tip spray in various colors too.

I've got neon green, pink, yellow and red.

Now if only I could get Purple.... Oh.... Prolly too close to Scooby-Roo-Bloo!

---

JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

tipo158 Wrote:
> Speed Factor is an (imperfect) way to do this.
> Start order based on actual stage performance.

Yup, it works well for 90% of the field. 5% have some wacko situation, and at the sharp 5% end where 0.01% (seems to) matter to starting position, well, that's a crap shoot.

It's easy to make a system that will work for either the top 10% or the bottom 90%. Making one that fits both is pretty fricken tricky and I don't envy the folks that have to sort the top RA starting slots.

Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.