Middle-age complaining..

Jens Wrote:
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> heymagic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> ......
>
>
>
> > OUR sport is in trouble, we are losing roads
> to
> > enviromentalists, unruly spectators.....
>
>
> Rally is NOT a spectator sport.
>
> Raising rally's visibility is what is slowly
> killing it.
> I said it 10 years ago, and stand by it now.
>
> If you don't like my opinions, don't read them.
> No one is forcing
> you to read my comments.
>
> You asked me how long since I've been to a rally.
> I gave you
> an answer. The answer wasn't to your liking. I
> don't care.
>
> The title of the thread is: "Middle-age
> complaining" not
> "Group hug".


You aren't middle aged.
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> Edited 3 times. Last edit at Jun 4, 2009 by Jens.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
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> You aren't middle aged.


Everyone has their illusions. Some think raising rally's visibility is a good thing. My illusion is that I'm middle-aged rather than old and waiting for death.

heymagic Wrote:
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do for you, ask what you can do for
> rally"
>
> Robert, (please read this nicely as you are
> someone I like a lot) I'll bet I have hundreds of
> hours more volunteering than you, gas to Oregon
> and motel rooms just to help scrutineering,
> countless hours of helping Damitio, McQuade, PRG,
> ORG, RA, NRS. I do it for fun, a distraction, the
> comraderie and to help. I certainly don't think or
> demand RA or even the organizers pay me or furnish
> lodging. I usually don't even stay for the dinner.
> Alan Perry can tell the same story. So can Ron
> Barker, John Nispel, Bill Stanley, Kim Craddock
> and many others. So my question...why suddenly are
> you so important to demand lodging ?
>

but I didn't read his post as 'demanding' lodging, just saying, he can't afford to volunteer unless they can throw him a bone.

If they don't need him, then sure...fuck'm , but if they're struggling for volunteers...

but then there's the problem of, if they give HIM $100 for the weekend, they gotta give EVERY worker $100 for the weekend, so its quite the conundrum.

There has to be a better, logical way, because not everyone is as devoted as you are, Gene...you've got an impressive rally history, you obviously bleed rally, but not everyone does.

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Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

Okay, here's where the real reach around/double edge comes in.

Rally isn't a spectator sport. Okay, I can kind of agree with what Jens is saying to a small extent.

But rally's impact to a local economy is going to be the only thing that will allow us to keep those roads for the years to come. I'd bet that one of the closest friends any organizer wants to keep and keep happy are the local business owners and Chamber of Commerce. Thus spectators are important because they use there money on meals, tanks of fuel, hotel nights, taxes, and speeding tickets.

I may not like or want more of them, but damn if I don't understand the need we have for them and to increase their numbers in a manageable way.

Our local hill climb association is in constant battles for roads and there's more competitors and only a single 3-5 mile long road.

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Grant Hughes

Damn work distracted me and posted twice.

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Grant Hughes



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2009 12:51PM by NoCoast.

I didn't read it as "demanding" either. But boy, would it sure help if it were available to volunteers sometimes.

I mentioned somewhere, either SS or here, in those other threads, that renting a cabin or vacation house or something where you can stuff a lot of volunteers and have them just split the cost would be an awesome thing. Have em pay $10-$20 a night per person when they get there, hell, have the whole stage crew stay at the same place.

That way, you aren't "paying" for them, you're just paying up front and then getting most or all (or maybe even a touch more) of your money back once they show up and the volunteers are getting a deal because they aren't having to get a hotel room. And, on top of it, they are all already gathered together.

12xalt Wrote:
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> I didn't read it as "demanding" either. But boy,
> would it sure help if it were available to
> volunteers sometimes.
>
> I mentioned somewhere, either SS or here, in those
> other threads, that renting a cabin or vacation
> house or something where you can stuff a lot of
> volunteers and have them just split the cost would
> be an awesome thing. Have em pay $10-$20 a night
> per person when they get there, hell, have the
> whole stage crew stay at the same place.
>
> That way, you aren't "paying" for them, you're
> just paying up front and then getting most or all
> (or maybe even a touch more) of your money back
> once they show up and the volunteers are getting a
> deal because they aren't having to get a hotel
> room. And, on top of it, they are all already
> gathered together.


I dunno, then you get a long of drinking, and shennanigans, and maybe even inter-volunteer sex....could be dangerous.

or really really really fucking fun, its a fine line

---

Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

Jon Burke Wrote:
> I dunno, then you get a long of drinking, and
> shennanigans, and maybe even inter-volunteer
> sex....could be dangerous.
>
> or really really really fucking fun, its a fine
> line
>
> Jon Burke - KI6LSW
> Blog:
> 'Holy Shit!' @ 4:10


start including condoms, the morning after pill and hangover meds in the worker goodie bags, problem solved

Jon Burke Wrote:
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> I dunno, then you get a long of drinking, and
> shennanigans, and maybe even inter-volunteer
> sex....could be dangerous.
>


Oh fer Christ's sake

Back in the good old days prior to the parc anale' days we would be
too busy working on our fucking cars all fucking night long, so there wasn't any
fucking time for thinking about fucking let alone fucking!

Oh wait... you're talking about workers, eh.

Just think how many new workers you'd be able to get if the "inter-volunteer" sex was a guarentee!

Jens Wrote:
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> john vanlandingham Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
>
> > You aren't middle aged.
>
>
> Everyone has their illusions. Some think raising
> rally's visibility is a good thing. My illusion
> is that I'm middle-aged rather than old and
> waiting for death.

And some, knowing they are old, have the illusion that they can help a sport the like by giving their time in the best way they can, some by organising, some by advising and especially showing those interested in TRYING to go rally how they can build sustainable cars and attitudes.


You were never middle aged, and I suspect you were never young, either.
You have always seemed old, bitter and complaining, like a dry wheelbearing that no amount of lube will ever help because the race and the journals are broken inside.

While I agree with your basic complaint, you never offer serious suggestions of what anybody can do to try and get around the current established crisis.
The way you write THEY, the minions of darkness, the jack-booted forces of corporate greed have won the war just because you are defeated.

If you actually had any contact with anybody you'd see there are sober, realistic attempts at all levels to find alternatives to the "Dog and Pony" show.
And by all levels I mean newbs building cars, old timers resurrecting cars, old organising people, new or born again people like Robert, and me.

We're all trying to find ways to have cheaper as in cheaper and longer events, with less frills, less time off, more action into shorter overall time (since the current "spend 4 days for 100 miles stages" scenario immediately precludes or eliminates large numbers of people thereby conceding series long results to the idle rich).

You really have no excuse for not participating, not even your crotchety faux grizzly bear on line persona----I know people who know you and they say you aren't really a constantly annoying asshole, you're a pussycat---so you can't say you're not welcome.

You don't WANT to try anything.

Look Spitzner was a PR bullshitter who for a short while bullshitted other PR bullshitters and sucked Corporate cock. The one time I met him at Rim of the World I watched him talk with a close friend and he struck me like any of the thousands of cheap street corner pushers I'd see when I was in slimey parts of LA or SF or Oakland.
His spiel worked for idiots and dreamers and poseurs and in all car racing, there are lots of delusional dreamers and poseurs---it fell absolutely flat on my fiends and my ears since we both actually had made decent living racing and were familiar with the fast talking parasites around motorsports.

But Jens nothing works in the world without dreamers. My own personal reason for dispising him is just that anybody who has been around dreamers knows you can take advantage of dreamers far too easily and if one has 1 ounce of honor somewhere it is dishonorable to screw to screw people and Spitzner's "Vision" depended on screwing every person involved except a very select few independently wealthy.

It was in short "all you low life crews and volunteers and organisers are all here to supply a "backdrop" or "filler" so a few could have something appearing like an "event" so their ad copy could clain they won some "race".

In that respect, the situation hasn't changed.

But that doesn't mean we give up with "our" vision of rally being a RALLY, a gathering of people to fight it out with some element of endurance.
It means we have to agitate, and instigate and SUGGEST and SHOW that longer tougher events ARE MORE FUN.

That means we either chat up longer events or we try and influence organisers or we try and MAKE OUR OWN LONGER, CHEAPER EVENTS AND SEE IF PEOPLE RESPOND TO THAT DIFFERENT CHALLENGE.

aND THAT'S THE ROAD SOME OF US ARE SETTING OUT ON.


So Jens, you can still drive, go out and DO SOMETHING.
SOMETHING other that just complain.

>

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
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>

>----I know people who know you and they say
> you aren't really a constantly annoying asshole,
> you're a pussycat---


They lied to you.


> So Jens, you can still drive, go out and DO
> SOMETHING.
> SOMETHING other that just complain.


Complaining is the title of the thread.

Jens Wrote:
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> john vanlandingham Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
>
> >----I know people who know you and they say
> > you aren't really a constantly annoying
> asshole,
> > you're a pussycat---
>
>
> They lied to you.
>
>
> > So Jens, you can still drive, go out and DO
> > SOMETHING.
> > SOMETHING other that just complain.
>
>
> Complaining is the title of the thread.

But the man from up in Maine wasn't JUST complaining, he offered a solution baked into the nature of the complaint.

A useless complaint is what you do :"Everything sucks big weenies now, and it was all golden back just after the Continental ice Sheet pulled back"

A useful complaint is "It sucks there is no easily accessible and updateable, list of volunteers with brief notes of their experience and expertise so that all organisers current and potential can have a way to contact potential workers"

A good complaint, one that is looking for solutions, contains a detailed accounting of what the nature of the complaint is and thereby strongly IMPLIES a solution.

A useless complaint, like yours, doesn't.
>
>

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

For my NRS events, I set aside some money for a volunteer fund. The money comes from the rally, and goes toward volunteer lodging and gas. It's a program that you submit receipts for after the event, and it doesn't pretend to be able to cover 100% of everyone's cost. But if you apply early and get four volunteers in a room, it will get you $60 (=$15 x 4 applicants) a night for a night or two, depending on the event. And we'll look at your gas receipts and reimburse some amount based on your travel distance and how much carpooling you did.

So I'm right there with you on the "hey, man, help a brother out". We couldn't afford to cover everyone's everything though, not by a long, LONG shot.

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
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> A useless complaint is what you do.....

I know. I'm sorry. I'm worthless. You made me cry.


> A useful complaint is....

What you do.



John, you're always right.

I'm building a shrine to you where I can pray to the great JVL.