The following I posted on the NErally.com forum, hoping to draw comment and traffic, and apparently killed the site. The complaint is still valid, though.

The following will be long, bear with me...
First, let me say thanks to El Presidente and the powers-that-be that have created this web site. I think it will fill a void in rally discussion in this area. Second, the opinions expressed here are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of NERally.com, its' owners, managers, employees, heirs, assignees, or paramours. Lastly, if you think I may be stating my following arguments a little forcefully in order to stir the pot, you would be correct. But, I truly believe in what I say, just my conviction is not as solid as, say, a Rush Limbaugh dittoheads.

Having said that, I think rally is screwed.

Now I bet, your first reaction is "Who the ____ are you" to say that, so let me tell you. I've never driven in a rally, never co-driven in a rally, I don't think I have ever sat in a rally car, and I've never spectated a rally. But I first volunteered for a rally in 1993 or thereabouts, and did so for all but 1 SCCA or RA New England rally up through 2007, first as a corner marshal, than as a ham, finally as head of radio for MFR. (My wife worked way up the medical side on the same time line). So my perception come strictly from the worker/organizer side, and please realize to adjust for that bias accordingly.

Rally is slowly starving to death, and I see nothing on the horizon to bring it back. We are starving for events, we are starving for workers, we have ALWAYS been starving for cash, and way too little has changed. I'll try to explain my opinion on each separately, and await your rebuttal.

Events: New England has too few events. With NEFR, Timos', and maybe throw in Black River and Rally New York, you have 5 rallys, with 3 different sanctioning bodies. Though you would think Maine would be easy to get more events for, such just isn't the case, and I know Ted (and no doubt others) have tried hard.
The lack of events hurts competitors (why build a car you race so little), sponsors (not a great deal of exposure), and workers (not enough time to learn what to do.) Which brings up my next point, which is the heart of my thread:

Workers. We have never really had enough workers, with enough training. Worse, there seems to be a drain on experienced workers. I have noticed through the years the loss of many good folks, ones that ran start/finish, not just corner marshalls, good experienced folk, and I'm gonna take a guess why. They were scared. One quick example: My first year as a radio guy at MFR I was assigned to ride with the safety steward. In the same day we A) had Pete Lyons (SCCA insurance guy, among other things) tell us "I want this stage shut down NOW!!)" (we didn't), and stop a different stage because we had competitors driving at speed on stage GOING THE WRONG WAY. (God bless Mark Utecht for radioing in from his broken rally car to stop the stage). He did the right thing that day on both occasions, but I've no doubt the stress got to him. He was very worked up on the way in from the stages that day, and I haven't seen him at an event since. I don't blame him, I was planning to cut back to just marshaling myself when things went all toes-up for me in the first NEFR. When RA took over rally, I was hoping more emphasis on the worker side would occur, but I haven't seen it. You can register as a worker, get the card, and get swag, but that seems to be about it. Which is no doubt some what related to:

Money. I'm gonna discount SCCA entirely on this one, because they always seemed to treat rally as a red-headed stepchild, but RA (and Subaru) have dropped the ball on this one. RA has seemed to push emphasis on the high-end of the sport (woo-hoo X games) hoping to drag along the low end of the sport, and Subaru signed Travis the year after Pat Richard beat Stig in a great championship contest. So the message is, to get a high end sponsorship, don't be good at rally, do back flips? (Travis's talent was was no proven commodity at the time). Now the X games are gone, and the races consist of Travis and Ken and who's that again? Take at look at the amount of entries in MFR/NEFR the last five years and then tell me how good we've done. There is no sense in doing the same wrong moves and hoping for different results. It just does not happen. No moneys, no help at the lower rungs, no rally.

I've said enough (or more than enough) and await your reply.

Mike McCarty

Addendum: I now realize the X-games still has a rally-like component in it, and apologize for the error. Everything else still holds.

1)Solid.

2)related to Meagan of LDR?

3)This is probably the right board.

Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2009 09:22PM by Anders Green.

Well...

Since the current events are pretty much under subscribed then having more events just diminishes the field even more. Organizers need a certain number of cars to meet the budget. We could add more events but lack the competitor base to support them.

Workers, yup there is a shortage. Has been for a while. I'm not sure why we continue to think people should just swarm to an event to give up their days off so ralliests can play. Pretty selfish concept. People who work rallies do so as a hobby, to be a part of something "special", to catch a glimpse of someone famous, to get close to the action or a variety of reasons. People work rallies as a hobby and can spend considerable money doing so. Interests change with time. Pressures from work or family, that seductive metal flake bass boat in the yard or the realization that you have only so many days off left on the old calendar. Things change. RA doesn't train, recruit or otherwise control workers, neither does NRS for that matter.

Pat Richard, pretty much considered on of "ours" (PNW). Subaru of Canada helps him out. Sponsorship has never just followed talent. There is a great portion of sponsorship that relies on presentation. Personality, looks, contacts all play as much a part as talent. Getting sponsorship is more work than work. ACP is a close friend of mine. I see first hand how much effort he puts into getting and keeping sponsors.

Fast guys...Travis is fast, Ken is fast, so is ACP, Tanner, LeStage and Richard. Andy Mancin is moving up also. We have some really great competition these days. If RA is to "blame" for that then good on them. They work hard to present a NA Championship and they aren't raking in millions doing so. They spend countless, thankless hours to keep the program going.

X Games, really tired of this complaint. It is an exhibition put on by ESPN. RA simply helps organize and staff the actual event. It is an ESPN production and will last as long as ESPN wishes. Does it help rally? Yes it does. Is it at the top level? Maybe, maybe not. It has shown rally cars and stars to many who would have otherwise never known of us. It has brought sponsor dollars to many. It has opened doors to rally from land owners, spectators and sponsors.

The bottoms rungs of a ladder always hold up the top, and get the dirty shoes in doing so. I've yet to turn on the TV and see a Nextel race canceled in favor of my local dirt track. Also I've never seen my sons local soccer team televised. Anyone who enters a regional rally looking for fame and fortune is a sadly delusional individual. We rally for the challenge, the competition, the recognition from fellow competitors and hopefully the fun of it. Fame and fortune are a dream.

Sounds like you're suffering from a bit of burn out. I'm on my second round with rally having been heavily involved in the 80's and early 90's. 12 years off and I'm back in the middle again, although it does get a bit tiring at times. Most tiring when I see posts like yours. I organize, work as sweep, controls, tech and even parking lot attendant some times. I can tell you that RA and NRS both care deeply about the sport, competitors and even the lowly worker. I'm blessed to be associated with both organizations as well as most of the mutts on this forum. Maybe you should step back and take another look??

Positive answers or suggestions are needed. Re-stating old facts and opinions really do no good. The pot has been stirred until the teflon is gone.

Mike,

Do you have any suggestions to help improve the situation? I don't disagree with what you are saying but you are just restating the obvious. Merrilee and I are doing a worker training project. We saw a need and decided to do something about it.

Gene,

You did a good job of describing "the other side of the coin".

I also took a decade off from rally. I am happy to be back.

Robert.

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

For **ME**:

Rallying in 70's and early 80's was a blast! Inexpensive. Very little bullshit.


Rallying in '99 and 2000 sucked! Expensive. Lots and loads of stupid bullshit
like driving suits, rectal inspections, sticker Nazi, etc.


Rallying now (not an option due to money and health), but even if I fix
those issues there is too much EXTRA stupid bullshit like HANS, idiotic
cage rules, super anal inspections. Not interested at all.

Now I'd much rather run brisk TSD's, or under the radar secret rallies.





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2009 09:43AM by Jens.

Jens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For **ME**:
>
> Rallying in 70's and early 80's was a blast!
> Inexpensive. Very little bullshit.
>
>
> Rallying in '99 and 2000 sucked! Expensive. Lots
> and loads of stupid bullshit
> like driving suits, rectal inspections, sticker
> Nazi, etc.
>
>
> Rallying now (not an option due to money and
> health), but even if I fix
> those issues there is too much EXTRA stupid
> bullshit like HANS, idiotic
> cage rules, super anal inspections. Not
> interested at all.
>
> Now I'd much rather run brisk TSD's, or under the
> radar secret rallies.
>
>
>
>
>
> Edited 2 times. Last edit at Jun 2, 2009 by Jens.

So Jens,
What do you call idiotic cage rules? The current FIA 253 cage is quite simple. I've been to a bunch of RA nationals and loads of regionals and haven't seen anything close to super anal inspections. Same deal with NRS. At least on the west coast. When is the last time you actually got off the porch and witnessed an event up close?

First, yup, Anders, I'm Maygens' dad. Have met you and Amy at MFR and enjoyed doing so, you are both class acts.

Gene, thanks for your reply. You threw the ball back my way, here is my return volly...

My concern on events is I believe that there is a certain minimum that, if we go under, we will never be able to attract enough entrants or workers to stage a rally. Don't know if we are close to that mark, but it seems that way to me. (And geography does make a difference, road availability varies drastically depending where you are).

On workers, SCCA started a worker registration program that I applauded right up to the point that I found out I'd need to buy a SCCA membership to join the program.
Thirty five bucks a year was more than I (and I guess many others) were willing to pay.
When RA came out they said they were planning on an on-line registry for workers, but no on-line forms have appeared yet. What I'd like to see is some method that if I could sign up for a rally, give my worker ID #, and they could look up in a central database on what my credentials and ability were. Many benefits could come from that one step alone.

My biggest beef is that the effort still seems to be to build rally from the roof down. Didn't work under SCCA, isn't working under RA. Sending an E-mail to RA can get a certain level of response, but I want more dialog and ideas than from just one source.

Enough for now, lunch is getting cold...

Jens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now I'd much rather run brisk TSD's, or under the
> radar secret rallies.

For anyone thinking about running "under the radar secret rallies", please do not call them "rallies", particularly if you get caught by the authorities. It is hard enough to find roads for rallies as it is.

alan

heymagic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> So Jens, What do you call idiotic cage rules?


Anything more than a 4 point roll bar.



> When is the last time you actually got off the
> porch and witnessed an event up close?


Several heart attacks ago.

tipo158 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> For anyone thinking about running "under the radar
> secret rallies", please do not call them
> "rallies".....


How's 'bout you guys stop calling forest sprint racing a "rally"?

Jens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tipo158 Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > For anyone thinking about running "under the radar
> > secret rallies", please do not call them
> > "rallies".....
>
> How's 'bout you guys stop calling forest sprint
> racing a "rally"?

Because it is easier for an underground activity to change what it calls itself than it is for a public "above the boards" activity to do so.

Mike Mc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My biggest beef is that the effort still seems to
> be to build rally from the roof down. Didn't work
> under SCCA, isn't working under RA. Sending an
> E-mail to RA can get a certain level of response,
> but I want more dialog and ideas than from just
> one source.

Exactly how is RA trying to build rally from the roof down?

Rally has been around in the US for a fairly long time. It has had time to build itself into a shaky house and then almost burn down or fall apart several times already.

alan

Alan, the perception I have (and I suspect many others) is much of the RA emphasis is put on the high end of the sport. Remember, I come in at the bottom rung of this thing, and perceive what is lacking there. DCH came in at the high end, and may well be seeing what is lacking there, but I'm not able to share his perception. You have your viewpoint as well, and the fact that ours differ does not mean either is entirely wrong.

My low end complaints...
The aforementioned lack of worker credentialing is one thing. Heck, for that matter, 1 lousy PDF or Powerpoint presentation of "Rally worker 101" (such as Robert and Merrilee are trying to do) would be GREAT! Denise had one, excellent I understand, but where is it? Goldfarb had one, also excellent (I did see that one) but where is it? This reinventing the wheel stuff is mind numbing.

Okay, let's start with this ONE thing. I'm willing to put up or shut up. Does RA need a volunteer to try to push forward a worker information/training/credentialing program? If such a thing happens, how do you folks on this board want to see it implemented? Ideas?

^^ I agree, I think its retarded that RA events, with big-big-big budget teams running don't pay workers at least SOMEthing (besides free t-shirts....whoopty-shit) to let their top dogs run.

How long do you think baseball/football/basketball would last if all the people at the gates/ticket booths were suddenly told they were 'volunteers'?

---

Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

Jon Burke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ^^ I agree, I think its retarded that RA events,
> with big-big-big budget teams running don't pay
> workers at least SOMEthing (besides free
> t-shirts....whoopty-shit) to let their top dogs
> run.

Rallies are break-even events at best. Where is the money gonna come from?

Perhaps you should attend some rally organizer meetings so that you can understand the relationship between the organizer and the sanctioning body and who is responsible for what before getting all pissy about things like this.

> How long do you think baseball/football/basketball
> would last if all the people at the gates/ticket
> booths were suddenly told they were 'volunteers'?

I have been a "Race Management" volunteer at the Long Beach Grand Prix (CART) and the Del Mar Grand Prix (IMSA). Note that I said "volunteer". I got a shirt and lunch. That's it. And there were more volunteers than there were positions available.

A friend of mine was a flagger. He didn't even get a t-shirt and had to buy his own uniform.

alan