Why? Here's part of the reason...PRG minutes from the last meeting. Take a minute to read, there will be a quiz following....



Ron called the meeting to order at 7:40 p.m.



Attendance:



Ron Barker, Lynne Smith, Frank Hamilton, John Nispel, Tracy Manspeaker, Kim Craddock, Miquel Cranor, Harley and Jennifer Johnson, Agatino Fortunato, Matt Wolanzyk, Zack Sanders, Tino Fortunato and John Forespring.



Secretary’s Report:



Frank made a motion to accept the March 12, 2009 minutes as written. Tracy seconded the motion. Motion passed.



Treasurer’s Report:



La’Akea was unable to attend the meeting. Kim reported there is $657.68 in the PRG account. Kim changed the agent of record on the account because she sent in the incorrect address. Kim stated that La’Akea should be working with LouAnn Christensen (NWR/SCCA’s treasurer) now. Ron stated that he believes that is so. Lynne stated that she had spoken with La’Akea about La’Akea getting trained with the computer program for the PRG books. La’Akea had told Lynne that she had not been trained as yet and would appreciate some help. Kim stated that LouAnn wants to do an update on the program and will get in touch with La’Akea so they can get the books completed and up to date.

Frank stated that he has paid for some items fro PRG and would like reimbursement. One of the items is the stolen med. Bag. The med. bag was stolen during the Doo Wop Rally. Frank talked to Tom Mastersen (RE for NWR/SCCA) about reimbursement because technically the med. bag is the property of the NWR. Tom stated that the NWR will not cover the cost because the Doo Wop was a NASA event. Frank stated he will try to get in touch with NASA to check with them to see if they have insurance to cover the cost of the med. bag. John F. stated NASA does not have the insurance.

Tracy stated she will talk with the competitors of the Doo Wop Rally and ask that they donate money for the cost of the stolen med. bag.

Frank brought up that the tabs have expired on the Rally trailer. Kim sated that Frank needs to get in touch with Steve McQuaid because the trailer is in Steve’s name with Rally Promotions.

John F. stated that he paid for Jay Shukla’s membership for NWR/SCCA and asked that he be reimbursed one half of the fee from PRG. Frank made a motion that John F. be reimbursed by PRG. Lynne seconded the motion. Motion passed.





New Member of NWR/SCCA Board:



John F. announced that Tracy is the newest member of the NWR/SCCA Board. Tracy was appointed into John’s spot and John was appointed into the position of the Assistant RE for the NWR/SCCA.

John stated that he paid for Tracy’s membership fees and he asked PRG to reimburse him. John N. made a motion to reimburse John F. for the payment of Tracy Manspeaker’s membership fees with NWR/SCCA. Frank seconded the motion. Motion passed.



PRG Membership:



Kim reported that she is working on renewing memberships. She would like to try a new program to do renewals once a year instead of monthly. Kim stated that Oregon is now doing yearly memberships and it’s working very well for them.

Kim wanted to propose or discuss that if we have a membership she would like to have a benefit for them which would be we would have to start paying into a banquet fund.

John F. brought up that we have a program going now where each competitor is paying a $20 fee per car for the volunteer’s banquet. This is in a separate fund, not with PRG.

Tracy stated that Mark Tabor will hold the funds for the two Oregon Rallies. There will be funds from the two PRG Rallies also.

Kim asked if Rally Cross would be included.

John F. stated that would be a good idea.

John F. suggested that PRG comes up with some kind of incentive to get new members.

Kim stated she will bring more ideas to the next meeting.

John N. made a motion that membership dues be prorated by quarters as members join late in the year at $5 increments. Starting January 1, 2010 dues will be paid yearly. Miquel seconded the motion. Motion passed.



Old Business:



Awards for Rally Worker’s Banquet:



Frank reported that two perpetual trophies have been lost from last year. Lynne has tried to find them, but no luck.

Frank made a request for funds to replace the two perpetual trophies and to purchase five plaques for The Rookie of the Year Award, The Rosemary Tindall Award, The Gene Nielsen Award and the Jorge Mesa Award.

Frank asked that the perpetual awards be presented at the Rally Worker’s Banquet and then be placed somewhere safe where the awards are not lost.

Tracy suggested putting the winners of the awards along with the reason for the awards on our website. John N. suggested that the same be done on paper where it can be placed with the plaques that will be presented at the banquet.

Lynne stated that she felt the perpetual trophies should no longer be awarded because of the expense to replace them, the time it takes to track down the trophies and the expense to replace the awards if they can’t be found.

Lynne requested funds for five plaques to be given to the award winners from last year. John F. stated the plaques should not be more than $10 a plaque.

Lynne stated she will go to the Grindstaff’s to get the plaques made.



John F. Double Charges for 2007 banquet:



Ron asked John F. if the double charges problem from the 2007 banquet had been solved and John F. stated they have.



Sanctions:



Kim brought up that sanctions for Rally Cross with SCCA must be signed by the RE of SCCA, the PRG chair and the Rally Cross chair.



Schedules:



Ron asked what’s on the schedule for Rally and Rally Cross.

John F. reported the Wild West Rally will be in Pomeroy on the 25th, 26th, and 27th of September. The Brooklyn Bash is scheduled for the 18th and 19th of July.



Olympus Rally:



Ron stated that the spectators at the Rally were overwhelming!!

Frank suggested more spectator areas.

John F. stated that next year many more volunteers are going to be needed to man the spectator areas. Rally America’s report suggested a need for more Road Marshalls. John F. brought up that a Rally America official wears a red shirt at the Rallies. If help is needed, look for them.



Volunteer Bags at Olympus:



Kim reported that she has no idea how all of the volunteer bags were handed out and so many volunteers didn’t receive a bag.

More shirts have been ordered and Kim will send them out when she gets all of the volunteers addresses.

John F. suggested handing out the volunteer bags after the stage has been worked. The volunteers should sign up with the Stage Captains, or whatever area they are working and then will receive their “thank you” bags.



New Business:



Wild West Rally:



John F. Reported that he will go over to meet with the people of Pomeroy, but cannot do all of the work this year. John asked that more people from PRG get involved with the planning of the Wild West Rally.

John N. stated that if we only get 12 entries we cannot afford to do the Rally. John F. brought up the fact that PRG has a contract with Pomeroy that we will put on a Wild West Rally. We have no choice. John F. feels we could go to NASA to sanction the Rally so we could get motorcycles involved in the Rally.

John F. suggested to open registration in June for $400, then graduate the entry fee up when the Rally date gets near. He would like the decision to be made by the first of August whether PRG goes with Rally America or NASA and open up Wild West to motorcycles.



Future Rally Cross Sites:



Kim stated there may be a site in Yelm.

Tino stated that he has friends with acreage in Olympia and Lacey that are interested in Rally Cross. Kim stated she will be more than happy to meet with them.

Miquel reported that Centralia College is interested in having a safety exhibit with Rally cars.



Brooklyn Bash:



Ron reported that after the flooding he can’t say what the course will be. Kim stated she has a map of the course from two year ago.



No Alibi Rally:



Ron stated that he will be driving in the No Alibi Rally in Wenatchee on the 6th and 7th of June.



All City Poker Rally:



John F. reported that the rally starts at the Corvette High Performance on Black Lake Blvd. and finishes at the Little Creek Casino in Shelton. The Poker Run will be on the 31st of May. Lynne and Miquel will be there to participate. The money from the Rally will go to a SPSCC scholarship fund.



Registrar Registration:



John F. stated that he had received that all registrars have to be registered with SCCA. Lynne asked what she needs to do since she is the registrar for all PRG events. Kim stated she would find out for Lynne.



Liter Pickup:



Frank thanked everyone who participated in the last liter pickup. He received an e-mail for DOT thanking PRG for a job well done.

Adjournment:



John F. made a motion to adjourn. Kim seconded the motion. Motion passed.

Ron adjourned the meeting at 9:00 p.m.



Respectfully submitted,





Lynne Smith

Secretary

Ok, I'm ready for the quiz.

Seems like a fairly typical committee type meeting. You're going to need to go to a benevolent dictator if you want to shorten it up.

Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Sounds frustrating!

What do you think needs to be changed Gene?

It sounds like strong leadership is needed.

Robert.

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

Notice the theme of SCCA/NWR ?? It's about every other item of business. Forespring tied PRG to the NWR SCCA so he could always control rally. Now the region is actually sticking their nose in rally business.

Why would the registrar of an event need to be registered and approved with the SCCA?

Why would PRG have to sign off on a RallyX sanctioned by SCCA?

Why does PRG , with no funds, have to pay somebodies membership in the SCCA?

How can you lose 2 perpetual trophies that are given out yearly? Did we not keep track of who got them?

There is a contract so poorly written that PRG has to put on rallies in Pomeroy at a loss? That sounds like the same story line as THE OLYMPIC committee will sue if Olympus is held further than 45 miles from Olympus, or that Subaru West demands all events to be FIA listed, or that the Nagel family gave Forespring permission to use the name but the event had to be held in Olympia, or, or, or...

The Brooklyn Bash RallyX is on the calendar but as of last week no one had contacted the land owner to ask permission or give a proposed date. Damitio called me, I called PRG and that has been rectified.

A med bag was stolen at DooWops from the banquet hall, why would you go to NASA for re-imbursement? Even more why would the NWR say it wouldn't cover the loss because the event was NASA? Does that mean they would cover it if RA or CARS?? It's a $400 bag, who would expect insurance to cover lost equipment?

The people in charge of worker bags can't account for the number of bags made or given out?



What should be done? Well we need to sever all ties with SCCA. We need to disband PRG ( it's owned by Forespring). We need new people to step up and kick the friggin door in if needed. We need to track, train and recruit workers. We need to own our equipment. The event procedes from the group events needs to go to the group to further the program. If the equipment is used for non group events then fees need collected for its use. We need less lies, more follow thru, less egos, more sharing. We need to do business differently.

I deleted most of my post, way too much dirty laundry. Damitio is done, I'm done. My only involvement now is on behalf of NRS or RA. I will no longer be Chief Scrutineer at a PRG event.

PRG is just a group of organizers, correct? They cannot sanction a rally without NASA or Rally America?

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

heymagic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Notice the theme of SCCA/NWR ?? It's about every
> other item of business. Forespring tied PRG to the
> NWR SCCA so he could always control rally. Now the
> region is actually sticking their nose in rally
> business.

Actually, this isn't quite right. The reason that PRG is tied to SCCA/NWR is to avoid having to start a new non-profit. At least that is the way that it was presented at the first meeting of what would become the PRG. It wasn't Forespring's idea.

Dazed_Driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PRG is just a group of organizers, correct? They
> cannot sanction a rally without NASA or Rally
> America?

"Sanction" generally means "we'll provide insurance, a rule set, operating guidelines, a brand connection, and (some amount of) personnel (stewards or what have you), allow the event to be counted to our championship(s), and help where we can to make the event happen".

I think your question may actually be: "Could they put on a rally without NRS or RA?" Yes, it's possible, but they would have to supply all those things themselves and it generally isn't worth the hassle.

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

I also have to jump in with.... awesome thread title Gene.

Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

tipo158 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> heymagic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Notice the theme of SCCA/NWR ?? It's about
> every
> > other item of business. Forespring tied PRG
> to the
> > NWR SCCA so he could always control rally.
> Now the
> > region is actually sticking their nose in
> rally
> > business.
>
> Actually, this isn't quite right. The reason that
> PRG is tied to SCCA/NWR is to avoid having to
> start a new non-profit. At least that is the way
> that it was presented at the first meeting of what
> would become the PRG. It wasn't Forespring's
> idea.
>
>

Alan, this encroaches on the dirt laundry theme. Let me say there was and is a fair bit on manipulation between Forespring and the NWR. Beyond that I'd rather not put it out here.

A non-profit in Washington is neither hard to expensive to set up.

Gene,

I did not know that Forespring owned PRG!

The two things that I learned from Olympus, John F. is a bit of a control freak and he is really trying to hook his daughter up with Pastrana.

I have seen what a gargantuan task organizing a rally is. I appreciate all the years of hard work that the current leaders have put in. From what Forespring told me he also spends a lot of his own money. My overall impression after Olympus was that new leadership is needed. By that I mean younger people with more energy and fresh ideas. Unfortunately the current group of organizers will not be able to quit completely because their experience will be needed for some time to come.

After Olympus I gave John my card and told him that I wanted to help organize. I haven't heard anything from him. Maybe he didn't take me seriously?

Thank you for all the work you do Gene!

Robert.

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

So If another group of people formed a new group, and wanted to host a rally, providing they dont hit any snags with who "owns the rally," They could call up NRS or RA and potentially start one?

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Dazed_Driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So If another group of people formed a new group,
> and wanted to host a rally, providing they dont
> hit any snags with who "owns the rally," They
> could call up NRS or RA and potentially start one?


That has been happening already.
>
> Feisty Peacock?
>
> My noodle I doodled was ate by a poodle

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Dazed_Driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So If another group of people formed a new group,
> and wanted to host a rally, providing they dont
> hit any snags with who "owns the rally," They
> could call up NRS or RA and potentially start one?


As John says, yes. The main thing that being part of a larger group gets you is equipment and personnel. For equipment, you're looking at signboards, clocks, EZ-Ups, radios, that kind of thing. Often those can be begged, borrowed, or rented from other organizations though - for instance, I know the CRS will rent out gear.

For personnel, things get a bit trickier. Having a group of people that all know each other can be a good thing: it can kind of snowball so that if you can convince a few key people to come, they'll bring others. The downside is that can go the other way too: sometimes you end up with people or groups that're more headache than they're worth. Anyway, the PNW's personnel issue has already been covered here in another thread.

As Anders pointed out, the sanctioning body provides insurance, a ruleset, and some operating guidelines and a steward or two. At the regional level, that's about it, and their main concerns are that the event is run safely. After all, they're putting their necks on the line in the form of providing you insurance, so they get to dictate what they think is safe car prep and safe event operations, and the steward is there mostly to observe to make sure that those requirements get met. Beyond that, at the club level you get a lot of freedom - you can choose whether it's going to be routebook or notes or recce, you can choose your car classes, you can choose your timing system and so on.

At the national level, they get a lot stricter, but it's mostly for uniformity of events. Rally-America will require you to use their scoring system, and they'll send out a gaggle of stewards and stuff like that. NASA, well, NASA doesn't technically have a national series - it's run by a separate organization called the USRC - but there's a similar set of special requirements for being part of that.

Anyway, both North Nevada and Idaho started out in the last couple of years as individuals calling the sanctioning bodies and saying "Hey, I've got some great roads. Will you insure me?" and then figuring out the rest of the infrastructure from there.

---

Self-righteous douche canoe

hmmm. I see.

And how does one acquire the rights to a rally, like say wild west, or doo wops, or olympus? Are they purchases from the previous "owner" or is it a tradition thing that the olympus rally USUALLY will go on, each year?

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Dazed_Driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hmmm. I see.
>
> And how does one acquire the rights to a rally,
> like say wild west, or doo wops, or olympus? Are
> they purchases from the previous "owner" or is it
> a tradition thing that the olympus rally USUALLY
> will go on, each year?
>
> Feisty Peacock?
>
> My noodle I doodled was ate by a poodle

Typically the "owner" will register the trademark with the state, Could be a person or group/club. Ray Damitio owns DooWops and has the name registered. Forespring claims Wild West but at last check it is not registered. Rainier Auto Sport Club probably owns Nor'Wester.