Having been on both sides of the event, competitors and workers for stage rallies and TSDs including the marathon events like the summer and winter ALCANs and Satch's Lost Patrol events, the workers have just as much fun as the competitors. We have to have all the big lights, drive the same roads and take short cuts and do all the timing and scoring, sometimes on the fly. If you put on an event, the Anti-Cristy and I will work it!

Robert- Talk to Jerry Hines, I'm sure he has several ideas and points to consider.

IMHO "Old School" means well written Route Books, no Recce, insane hours in the car with both crew members driving and navigating, being mechanically sympathetic to your machine and driving overnight.

Diamond "Glutton for Punishment" Jim

---

Diamond Jim
Co-Driver in the Double Zero course opening car
Charter Member of O.U.C.H.
Organized Union of Cat Herders

Kieth,

The UNOFICIAL word from NASA is that they will sanction it if it is safe. That being said, there are still some questions that need to be answered.

I was thinking about two U-Haul trucks with driver and navigator teams.

What is T.N. doing for insurance?

Timm,

I would never attempt to run an event "under the table". I have way too much to loose. Besides, if something went wrong I would want insurance coverage for those involved.

In regards to Buffum's comments, I think that they are driven more by the structure of the events, lack of entries and competition.

Robert.

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

Rallymech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Timm,
>
> I would never attempt to run an event "under the
> table". I have way too much to loose. Besides,
> if something went wrong I would want insurance
> coverage for those involved.
>
> In regards to Buffum's comments, I think that they
> are driven more by the structure of the events,
> lack of entries and competition.

Buffum has maintained for as long as I have known him that "lower level" guys "don't want" longer events and has used that as his reason for cutting short "Club" mileage in his dual National/club" events. in fact nearly all the Eastern US and Canadian events use this same rationale as reasoning to in mu opinion screw "Club" guys out of mileage and also to make it impossible for feisty club crews to be able to compare their overall placing to he National guys like we can and have done traditionally in the West.
And conveniently it effectively forces guys to enter the "National" at substanionally higher entry fees if people want to get a reasonable amount of miles on a weekend they may have just towed 400 miles to get to.

Oddly, 100% of "lower level" people I have ever spoken with want MORE MILAGE because they instinctively sense that what they need is LOTS OF SEAT TIME. They don't have Buffums 30 years and thousands of hours of experience---experience he got in longer events.

He may be right about "the winner" being decided, but there are more people in events than just the winner and I've often moved up LOTS of OA places in the very end of events, often big chunks on the last stage. It ain't over till it's over.
>
> Robert.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Seriously.

Cheers

---

Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

Rallymech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The UNOFICIAL word from NASA is that they will
> sanction it if it is safe. That being said, there
> are still some questions that need to be
> answered.

Understood, the biggest question is 'how safe is safe.'

> I was thinking about two U-Haul trucks with driver
> and navigator teams.

U-haul or some other reputable rental provider.

> What is T.N. doing for insurance?
My understanding is that they went straight to a broker/underwriter and bought insurance directly. Keep in mind that they also had a long track record of hosting the event and an easy to measure risk.

I haven't examined the quality and scope of the insurance compared to the coverage through ASN Canada FIA.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

I don't know about you guys, but I am not really interested in running my stage car in an event that lacks true specail stages. If it's a TSD I might as well bring my Suby which has an interior, among other percs.

Jack,

It's like this, the stage roads would be closed and high average speed. The transit roads would be open and run as a TSD. Depending on the safety level of the car the stages would have fast bogey times. You could bring either car and that is the point. If you are only interested in all out racing feel free to stick with pure stage rally. If however, you are interested in a different challenge you could try this out. The object of this game is controlled driving, endurance and strategy.

Robert.

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

ah I see, setup a lot like Targa.

Also, I forgot to mention, I do like the common service rig idea, that would be would be a great help for a competitor in my situation.

Format sounds a bit like the Shell 4000 events that went off in the 90's as well.

I believe the Calgary Sports Car Club organized the "modern" events and they're still a strong and thriving club.

Talk to Marcel Chichak <marcel@starchak.ca>, he's the Shell 4000 historian and an active ralliest.

t

---

Pure mathematics is the enemy of every truly creative man -- Sir Alec

Seat time is seat time. There was a TSD event called Dusk to Dust up here in Colorado that winded up into Wyoming then back. Event ended up having to be called off short about 200 miles into it due to a surprise blizzard in Wyoming. I did that in my caged rally car and had an absolute blast.

---

Grant Hughes

Long miles - good (value per mile is what makes/made rally a good value)

no recce - good, see value

Through the night - hell yea. Just don't have any early morning starts. That's for those old-fart road racing pussies.

TSD - Awww, do I have to? Last time I did any kind of TSD, I scored over 1000 points, so I ROCK those things! Seriously, TSD holds no interest for me. It feels like a cross between road tripping and standing in line at the DMV. Any sport where the first guy over the finish line doesn't win isn't a sport. That goes double for drifting an figure skating. BUT, if the event is long enough, fast enough, and the roads are good enough (tight and twisty gravel gravel, please), I'd do it anyway just for the fun. Rally is just driving fast in the woods without getting arrested. How you score it is largely irrelevant. The driving is the fun part, winning is just a piece of wood.

Non-cenralized service - This should show you how long it's been since I've done any rallying: Aren't they all that way? Seriously, centralized service sounds REALLY boring for the crews. Quit your whining about needing to buy a service vehicle. Have you seen how cheap trucks are right now? From 2001 to 2004 I had a $1,000 1977 Chevy service van. When I finally sold it, I got $700 for it. If you can't afford $300 for service equipment, you should try drag racing.

Yes, there is a chance your cew might not make it in time. That's part of the adventure. My crew missed a service at Prescott one year, so I just went to another service truck and begged some gas. Make sure yo have friends...


-Dave

ASSuming I ever get my car to move under its own power again, I'd be all over this event...

---

Jay Woodward
Snohomish, WA
'90 Mazdog Frankenprotege
Chronologically, 46...

Dave,

Many people have the same reaction as you about TSD events. I have been on some TSD rallies that were seriously boring. On the other hand I just competed in an event that was fast and fun. It all depends on the roads and the rally master.

Robert.

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

Rallymech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jack,
>
> It's like this, the stage roads would be closed
> and high average speed. The transit roads would
> be open and run as a TSD.

Er Um I just confirmed with Roberto that we should emphasise that when he says "run as a TSD " that you should read that as "You have to arrive at the start of the next "Road section" on time of you get penalties" which is really not differnt from now.
But what has to be understood is that we as Organ-isers have to be able to assure to 100% any "Authorities" that there will be no speeding on open roads ie transits.
And that really as no different than any 100% pure Stage Rally.

I admonished Robert and told him to whip it out, lay it on the table and whack it on the end (Yow!!) for using the word TSD which all Stage rally only guys will instinctively react in horror and disgust.
He whacked it (I heard a loud slap in the background).







Depending on the safety
> level of the car the stages would have fast bogey
> times.

IE if we see that a decnt PNW Stage rally car might average say 45mph on a "stage' maybe we set the Average at 70. So everybody is "late" and the "least late" (shortest time on the stage just like normal) is decisive.




You could bring either car and that is the
> point. If you are only interested in all out
> racing feel free to stick with pure stage rally.
> If however, you are interested in a different
> challenge you could try this out. The object of
> this game is controlled driving, endurance and
> strategy.
>
> Robert.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

A couple of notes:

Targa Newfoundland has absolutley no timing on the tranists... in fact you can change start order from stage to stage without penalty if you want to take some extra time to work on the car. They also allow effectively open service with many teams having service crews waiting at the end of the stages.

You will need to figure out how you will work to discourage speeding on the transits,

I don't beleive the Calgary Sports Car Club was ever involved in organising the Shell 4000, possibly supported it with workers and I know we had members enter it. Marcel is 'the man' when it comes to that event.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.