Andrew_Frick Wrote:
> Good point, I think driving within yourself can
> make you faster in less time, when you are
> concentrating on being smooth, taking a good line,
> and making sure you are working well with the
> co-driver. Plus less crashes means more seat
> time, less money fixing the car and thus more
> rallies.

And this is where I think the semantic differences come in.

To me (in my opinion) what you describe would be closer to the proverbial 10/10ths than not.

10/10ths would be that pace at which everything stays in control and speed/reliability is maximised. 9/10ths is a pace where there is significant reserves and 11/10ths is where things start getting sloppy/lucky.

What this *really* illustrates is that it is next to impossible for an organizer to tell a bunch of competitors to limit themselves to 7/10ths and have it meaningfully understood.
Since we all seem to agree that this is highly individual, and has more to do with the crew than the equipment, my 7/10ths could be John's 2/10ths and so on.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
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Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Morison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What this *really* illustrates is that....

You don't have a clue what you are talking about.









Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2009 03:01PM by Jens.

Jens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Morison Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What this *really* illustrates is that....
>
> You don't have a clue what you are talking about.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at Jun 17, 2009 by Jens.


I think I liked you better when you were the easter bunny

I found 11/10ths today on my mountain bike. Then I found the ground.


Apparently, its bad to clip a pedal on a log while you're hauling ass and fully committed to a down hill turn.... It left a mark... haha

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Dazed_Driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I found 11/10ths today on my mountain bike. Then I
> found the ground.
>
>
> Apparently, its bad to clip a pedal on a log while
> you're hauling ass and fully committed to a down
> hill turn.... It left a mark... haha
>
> Feisty Peacock?
>
> My noodle I doodled was ate by a poodle

A mark on the log or in your skivvies?

lol, the log and my arm. Under armor was still white hahah

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Shit, I strive for 7/10ths and doubt I'd know if I acheived it. The only thing I know is when I've stuffed it and can't drive out, then I've overcooked it and that's what I call 11/10ths. It is probably equal to 3/10ths for an old fart hobbiest rally driver over the pond.

I say clarify 9/10th by qualifying as follows:

9/10ths of a typical Latvalla stage average speed.
9/10ths " " " Matt Johnson stage average speed.
9/10ths of a first time US rallyist (production class Geo Metro) stage average speed.
And so on.

Very different levels of perfomance from different drivers at different events.

But the kids know what 9/10ths is right? The video game tells them. ;-)

---

Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

This whole thing has to be looked at in light of generations of "buy your seat and buy your TV time" types posturing to sound serious when they are really dentists or lawyers by trade and are just playing "race car driver" so they talk a lot of drivel and then people see it, repeat it and everything is skewed.

Nobody drives "110%" all the time.
And certainly serious "actually get paid to drive" types don't and don't talk that sort of BS either.

SMART drivers, sucessful serious professionals, my old collegues (who would kick my ass routinely) would say "You gotta get better so you have some reserve, physical reserve and skills reserve, whaddya gonna do if you're at your own 100% and some bastid passes you? You have to be able to safely ratchet it up a notch for a while"

From their words I try in rally, which is just a passtime for everybody in North America, to maintain what I call a comfy 90%.
If comfy 90% doesn't yield overall results enough to tickle my cockles then I say make the motor better, brake better.

But talking to our worisome segment: Blue street Subie drivers going apeshit, I don't know what we can say since they are deep into the media hype/image is everything deal.
Should we have an age limit?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Age limit? Hell no! I only started this at 50 and I've got a a bit of catching up to do and lot more to learn yet. I'm younger now, after 3 years of rallying, than I was then. :-)

Simon
USUK Racing

---

Simon Wright
Owner/Driver USUK Racing - Home of the USUK Racing LED Light Bars!

North America Rally Map

Drivers will say anything, if you put a mike in front of them. Poseurs will, too. Back in da day, a moto-xing schoolmate liked to tell everyone,who was foolish enough to ask,something different. His idea of humour.

Classic Tommy Makinen "today was maximum, maximum, maximum attack"

When Latvala tells Malcom Wilson "today I go 110%", I bet Malcolm believes Latvala is fully prepared to write off a shell!

When some 20 year old WRX wielding (parents bought it for him for not completely flunking out) American kid says it, it means he is gonna fill it up with kids, no one is gonna put on seat belts and the driver is gonna show off his mad skillz yo, until they barrel roll the thing, 4 kids need ambulance rides, the WRX burns and a stage is cancelled. Really happened. I was there. 4 meat-wagons, fire dept., road closed for a while, Big PITA! Too bad the driver wasn't killed.

---

Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

tedm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Drivers will say anything, if you put a mike in
> front of them. Poseurs will, too. Back in da
> day, a moto-xing schoolmate liked to tell
> everyone,who was foolish enough to ask,something
> different. His idea of humour.
>
> Classic Tommy Makinen "today was maximum, maximum,
> maximum attack"
>
> When Latvala tells Malcom Wilson "today I go
> 110%", I bet Malcolm believes Latvala is fully
> prepared to write off a shell!
>
> When some 20 year old WRX wielding (parents bought
> it for him for not completely flunking out)
> American kid says it, it means he is gonna fill it
> up with kids, no one is gonna put on seat belts
> and the driver is gonna show off his mad skillz
> yo, until they barrel roll the thing, 4 kids need
> ambulance rides, the WRX burns and a stage is
> cancelled. Really happened. I was there. 4
> meat-wagons, fire dept., road closed for a while,
> Big PITA! Too bad the driver wasn't killed.

I passes that two years in a row at Maine.
But they were probably Massholes so who cares?

(Actually that's where the MINIMUM age limit idea came from---sliding scale based on age and bhp and chrome fart can diameter.)
>
>
>
> Ted Mendham
> www.rensport.net

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

> Jason,
>
> Thanks for bringing up the concept of risk
> management. I am familiar with risk management in
> an aviation environment. Could you please explain
> a bit for our younger viewers.
Well OK. Derek has said a few times that he doesn't push the limits in his plane due to the massive risk. That is managing risk based on aircraft type, pilot experience, and perhaps other factors. I have more experience, fly a high performance jet... So, as part of my job I do push to the very edge of the envelope. How can this be safe? We don't perform air combat (dogfight) below ten thousand feet due to the altitude it requires to recover from a loss of control. Obviously there all kinds of similar rules meant to reduce the risk INHERANT to alot of our training. Rally has risk that is also inherant. Safety regs are risk management, but more is needed. In a jet I'm prohibited from certain dynamic flights if I haven't flown in a while (vacation). Hard to apply to rally... No one is 'current' for long. Each driver would need to make his own rules (codriver sucks so I'm driving what I see),and then stick to it. Sounds ok in theory, but it's hard not to get caught up in the moment maybe.
>
> "I find it hard to believe that a 25 yo newb with
> less restraint, and less experience would do
> different. In fact, that driver may not have
> enough experience to judge 9/10ths and end up
> going faster." Gene and I were talking about this
> yesterday.
>
> Gene,
>
> "Yes, and it doesn't matter if rally, road race or
> skate boards. But if you ask many of the rally
> crashes they'll say they weren't driving at 10/10s
> or even 9/10s for that matter. Usually it's a
> story like " I'm not sure what happened, we just
> came over the crest and must have dropped a wheel
> off. We weren't pushing hard" I've heard it at
> every rally I've been to." Oh how true!
>
> Robert.
>