Document linked here:

http://linaracing.com/temp/VisionGuide.pdf

This was written in 1999, ten years ago, with a stated implementation of "~2005". It was a time of 120 car fields with waiting lists and probably Subaru's first steps to look at rally in the US.

Interesting reading, looking at what has happened and what hasn't. Some things we now take for granted, some still seem unlikely. ("Especially with that attitude, mister!" *grin* ) I think it's worth revisiting it every so often to think about the landscape of the sport, what one documented direction was, and reflect on what's happened since, and could happen in the future.

Thoughts?

Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Trouble-maker!

---

Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

They had 50,000 spectators at service at Mexico last weekend.
The CRO said that when it's a WRC event they have 250,000+.

---

Grant Hughes

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They had 50,000 spectators at service at Mexico
> last weekend.
> The CRO said that when it's a WRC event they have
> 250,000+.
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO


What's CRO?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I'm confused, that plan doesnt seem to bad...

Pro rally is pro oriented, and club is regional oriented.

Are people annoyed because they couldnt run older cars in nationals?

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Competitor Relations Officer.

---

Grant Hughes

Dazed_Driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm confused, that plan doesnt seem to bad...
>

That's because you are new and have no idea what things were like before and most of those things have since been implemented.


> Pro rally is pro oriented, and club is regional
> oriented.

It's just semantics. It all used to be called PRO Rally (to distinguish it from TSD rally, really), and there were National PRO Rallies and Divisional PRO Rallies. It's always been misleading, really since there have never been "pros" in rally in this country. Just rich amateurs and not so rich amateurs.
>
> Are people annoyed because they couldnt run older
> cars in nationals?
>

YES they WERE! It was a big to do at the time. People were freaking out and saying that it was the end of rally. "OMG, they're killing rally, Spitzner (The Spawn of Satan) must die!" Andrew Havas even put a banner on the windshield of his RX-7 that said "20 year old car" just to piss Kurt Spitzner off. It worked. At Prescott Forest Rally Mike Whitman finished 2nd overall in his Datsun 510. Spitzner told me in a phone conversation that at the event he was sweating bullets because if Noel Lawler had hit trouble and Whitman had got past him he would have had to do some serious spin to downplay Whitman's win (in an old 510) and throw the laurels on Lawler.

Somehow rally survived it all and it's still kicking, it keeps refusing to die...

aaahhhh that makes sense then.

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

What Dave said!
We were pissed!!!!!!!!! in more ways than one ;-)

I don't at all fault Kurt for having vision and wanting to grow Pro-Rally, but he was pissing off some club membership in their old cars and ameteurish ways (like me). I think thew money spent on WRC Rally Denver could have been better spent as well.

I made the mistake of suggesting that the SCCA should off Kurt and they didn't think it was very funny AT ALL. Then they fired Kurt and axed the program. Weird.

---

Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

Eddie Fiorelli was telling me about his first Maine rally when he was on the waiting list because they had over 120 entries. Crazy.

Rumor mill has it that the SCCA won't be the last one to bail on rally and this vision plan or one quite similar.

---

Grant Hughes

http://www.rallyracingnews.com/scca/prorally-stats79-03.html

---

Lurch
Eric Burmeister
The west coast...of Michigan

Mark and I were talking about the ebb and flow of competitors just last night. Mark seems to think that it's the dot com boom and flop that accounts for the big climb and fall. Considering the number of engineer and computer types that are now involved in rally this kind of made sense to me after 4 or 5 Guinesses.

---

Grant Hughes

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mark and I were talking about the ebb and flow of
> competitors just last night. Mark seems to think
> that it's the dot com boom and flop that accounts
> for the big climb and fall. Considering the
> number of engineer and computer types that are now
> involved in rally this kind of made sense to me
> after 4 or 5 Guinesses.


Ooooooh yeah.

I've talked with well everybody how the basic demographics of the sport devolved from primarily working class people who uh work on things themselves to a higher, more visible class where peopel think their time os too valuable to spend building shit---YOUR EXCUSE!!! teee hee!!---- so they BUY everything from car to prep to install, to Tim O'Neil, to license and all the romper suits and doo-dads, then poof they're a "Rally Racer".

I have wondered aloud if the change in character of the events doesn't also have some linkage to this demographic change.

(Haven't really met that many 'pooter type that strike me as very rough and tough and 'get down and dirty" in the dirt types.)
>
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

> (Haven't really met that many 'pooter type that
> strike me as very rough and tough and 'get down
> and dirty" in the dirt types.)

Well, unless you own the company, most of the computer types (self included) couldn't afford the arrive and drive route. At least out east there are quite a few IT people in rallying and all forms of racing who work the "butt sitter" job during the day and are full on blue-collar garage guy at night (self included)... And out here I've seen more "blue collar" Irish contractors spending obscene amounts of money than anyone other than a certain skateboard shoe mogul.

I need to talk to you about one of the suspenders, when is a good time to get ahold of you?

cbombara Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > (Haven't really met that many 'pooter type
> that
> > strike me as very rough and tough and 'get
> down
> > and dirty" in the dirt types.)
>
> Well, unless you own the company, most of the
> computer types (self included) couldn't afford the
> arrive and drive route. At least out east there
> are quite a few IT people in rallying and all
> forms of racing who work the "butt sitter" job
> during the day and are full on blue-collar garage
> guy at night (self included)... And out here I've
> seen more "blue collar" Irish contractors spending
> obscene amounts of money than anyone other than a
> certain skateboard shoe mogul.
>
> I need to talk to you about one of the suspenders,
> when is a good time to get ahold of you?


Right now.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.