Back off topic...

Todays P cars could/should be a viable entry. Most of them are making more HP than a built Golf. 150hp off the showroom floor is about standard and many producing 200hp stock. A problem with P is that somewhere it turned into the "bargain" class. People quit racing the class in "equal" cars and started racing with empty wallets. There needs to be an age limit to keep the cars fresh,current and the manufactures interested. With Fords new interest, Chevy making noises and the Korean 'invasion' it is plausible.

Racing P class is no different than racing G2 or G5, the vast majority in all classes are not racing for THE win, they're just racing for the joy and maybe a class win. A win is just the topping on the sundae.

Morison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> john vanlandingham Wrote:
> > (And sure I didn't consider P class, why
> would I
> > or anybody else even think of P class. P
> class is
> > stupid, and I'm not interested in wasting
> time in
> > people who voluntarily choose to make their
> lives
> > miserable and more difficult and more
> expensive
> > than it needs to be.
>
> Which is arrogant beyond beleif.
>
> I'll give you that the genesis of rally 'production'
> classes was catering to Dodgeand perennial P class cheater Guy Light, and according to their own shocking admissions on SS forums, a bunch of other flagrant cheaters, to quote one particularly abrasive one "we all did that, there's no way we could run the cars if we didn't who wanted a
> 'race on Sunday with a car highly modified and strengthened sell on Monday' and lie that the car was "PRODUCTION" ie "stock" class but that
> doesn't mean that there still isn't value in it.

We Jamie Thomas could actually file a REAL protest at a National about the plastic trim around the gearshift and not be first violently beaten, then second excluded and licence revoked on the spotfor "Gross unsportsmanlike conduct bring the entire sport into gross disrepute---and shamelessness", then P class finally was proven to be utterly worthless and should have been abolished long ago.

It persists because of dinosaurs.
>
> I built my first rally car,
>blah blah blah


Dam,n I didn't realise we were talking about you.....
PGT cars can scoot---but the absurdity of have 3 or 4 classes TAILORED to turbo 4wd cars was simply STUPID.
So once again....Like, whatever, doood.
>
> In that same time there have been people who
> languish away on their G2/G5 builds who have been
> sold a bill of goods that makes them think that
> unless the car is perfect and built to the max
> there is no point in taking it out of the garage.

Hey, you know I think you are a fundamentally dishonest and conceited person primarily interested in argument and Nay Saying, and nothing else, but answer me these honestly if you can to put the above statements into some sort of comparable perspective.
You don;'t have to answer, but then if you don't, you'd really be shown to be a ballless putz.
So:

We know you're about 40.
Do you own your own house? When purchaced?
Are you married? How long?
Do you have kids?...what ages?
Have you changed jobs recently?
Did you own a home at 30?
How long did it take you to build your first RALLY car at 30 ish?


Answer those and we'll compare some of the boys I know whose builds are languishing....which if you actually had any human empathy and cared about anything other than your warped sense of contrariness and scoring points, you'd know that that is very frustrating for everybody, including those who gave the boys a lot of time and help, to see the cars sit.

But lets see what you were doing in your life then so we can compare.
>
>
> > ...we've seen guys who did entire seasons
> coming SECOND TO
> > LAST OVERALL ON EVERY STAGE OF THE SEASON
> except
> > 2, BRAG ABOUT HOW THEY ARE THE National
> Champion.
> > Shameless)
>
> I've seen the same by G2/G5 drivers. I've also
> seen people tout the brilliance of 'local heros'
> finishing on the national podium but leave out
> that they were over eight minutes back of the
> winner.

I do not think there are Gp2 drivers or even Gp5 guys coming second to last on every single stage in a whole season who have been crowned and who have crowed about "I'm the Champion" and actually siad to others "When you've been around for a while, then you'll earn some credibility" when he's done maybe 2 1/2 partial seasons---again finishing second to last on seriously nearly every stage bar a few and second to last Overall.
Show me.
I am not exaggerating, you are being a balless schmuck trying to casrt asperions on something you youself are incapable of.

Again, shameless.
>
>
>
>
>
> Edited 1 times. Last edit at Sep 15, 2009 by
> Morison.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
> PGT cars can scoot---but the absurdity of have 3
> or 4 classes TAILORED to turbo 4wd cars was
> simply STUPID.

Agreed. I think there should be only four classes, open awd, open 2wd, awd and 2wd classes limited to essentially stock drivelines to keep the spending down. .
> Hey, you know I think you are a fundamentally
> dishonest and conceited person primarily
> interested in argument and Nay Saying, and nothing
> else

Who cares what you think? Really? Ask the many people I have helped get into the sport and who I have helped grow in the sport if they think I am dishonest and conceited. (in other words the people who actually know me)

> but answer me these honestly if you can to
> put the above statements into some sort of
> comparable perspective.

> We know you're about 40.
45

> Do you own your own house? When purchaced?
No, for a variety of reasons

> Are you married? How long?
Yes, 3 years

> Do you have kids?...what ages?
No, don't want them and have been snipped to help prevent them.

> Have you changed jobs recently?
Self employed for the last 10 years. Left my last full time job 7 years ago.

> Did you own a home at 30?
no

> How long did it take you to build your first RALLY car at [40] ish?
less than four months

> But lets see what you were doing in your life then
> so we can compare.

Much of the above has nothing to do with anything.
I worked in a range of mediocre paying jobs for a few years out of school and then chased a career that I was passionate about but payed like shit. I worked for others in daily newspapers up till the end of 2002 and while all but the last job paid poorly I absolutely loved going to work.

I've spent my money in some poor ways.

- I gave employees the sense that they could make decisions about what they do but didn't manage them close enough and they dug me a financial hole while I wasn't looking.

- I launched a magazine that showcased Canadian Photojournalism and went on to beat Time Magazine and Newsweek in a picture editing category of the International Pictures of the Year competition. I could have built a nice PGT car for the same money. We shared some beautiful and strong stories with it and got a few people thinking about photography and how its used too,

- I use time that I should be building my company on to volunteer and improve a range of associations and activities I am involved in including, but not limited to, rally. Often this means volunteering my professional skills, giving tens of thousands of dollars worth of work for nothing,

-


> I do not think there are Gp2 drivers or even Gp5
> guys coming second to last on every single stage
> in a whole season who have been crowned and who
> have crowed about "I'm the Champion" and actually
> siad to others "When you've been around for a
> while, then you'll earn some credibility" when
> he's done maybe 2 1/2 partial seasons---again
> finishing second to last on seriously nearly every
> stage bar a few and second to last Overall.
> Show me.

OK, you're clearly thinking of a specific person and a specific situation and I don't have a clue who you are talking about. My point was that many G2 champions have been well off the pace and/or have won championships by towing yest still tout that they are 'champions'

Yes, my co-driver championships in 2006 could have been won by towing only but we still finished high up the order (two overall podiums in Canada ... beating capable open class cars.)

A lot of people made a big fuss about us coming within a second of Pastrana on a stage at Olympus that year (or the following, can't remember) but I called bullshit on it because it was the last (or second to last) stage of the event and he had a huge lead and could back off while we were still battling and pushing. Winning that stage would have meant NOTHING.

> I am not exaggerating, you are being a balless
> schmuck trying to casrt asperions on something you
> youself are incapable of.

You regularly discount co-drivers as not having valid opinions because they aren't driving in events. That shows how out of touch with reality you are when it comes to rally today. Co-drivers can make a car go faster, they can also cause them to crash. That said, I have driven (and recently in testing) and I am capable. Maybe it is odd for you to understand but I actually PREFER co-driving. If I stumbled into a wad of cash I might build a car again and drive in regionals (hell, I'd probably just try and buy the 73 corolla I drove at the last test day and run it)

The biggest thing is that I recognize that I can co-drive at a higher level than I can drive at.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2009 12:23PM by Morison.

Holy crap. I can't even read this thread anymore at this point.

Ken Block is like the Chief Marketing Executive for DC Shoes. Sure he's not directly spending his own money, but he is spending DC Shoes, but he's generating huge returns on that money spent.

Ken and I are are now friends on Dirt 2 as of last night.

As to Defi, did the wheel lock and toss the car? Maybe. Did the wheel rub noise cause him to lift slightly resulting in the car getting tossed? Maybe. Maybe that noise was actually the clutch slipping resulting in no power to the rear wheels tossing him into the ditch. It doesn't really matter at this point.

Last note, obviously whatever he's doing is working. This is now a three page thread. So love him or hate him he's even building exposure for himself here.

I don't recall a thread for Eddie Fiorelli's off at Idaho. Or <insert and regional/privateer drivers> big mistake resulting in <insert problem here> at <insert a rally here> being discussed at all on this site.

---

Grant Hughes

NoCoast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Last note, obviously whatever he's doing is
> working. This is now a three page thread. So
> love him or hate him he's even building exposure
> for himself here.
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO


Exactly. It's all advertisement, and even if you don't want the product, you still know about it. He's GREAT at marketing, like it or not.

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Yay for sense!

---

Ben Hetland
1973 Volvo 142 project car (with some cone-smashing on dirt in it's future, however)

"No. Rally Racing is a back alley sport filled with jackals, headhunters and thugs!"
-Pops Racer (Speed Racer movie)

www.utahrallygroup.com

john vanlandingham Wrote:

> Last event I did was February.

DNF. I bet KB didn't care to repeatedly post online how much smarter he is than you.

> When have you EVER driven in a rally?

Who here can't drive a car? You wanna lie about your driving results again?

> That's right, you can't.
> You just sit on your ass yapping at people.

Beats sitting on your ass typing about rally on the wiennernet.

While I was at Defi yapping, I happened to notice Ken's Escort is way cool. You do have to be up-close to notice all the detail. All the carbon fiber, modern rubber and detailed graphics made it look so retro. Was the crowd favorite at the Parc Expose.

Ken and Alex have both supported 2wd rallying. Ken buying the Escort and Alex putting together the MaxAttack! Rookie Codriver of the Year award years-on-end shows they are passionate for all aspects of the sport. Continuous bashing them just proves you're jealous.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2009 08:23AM by CommanderSalamander.

I always thought that whoever dies with the most cool toys wins. Maybe I missed the memo which declares that from now on, whoever dies with the most internet enemies wins ;-)

---

Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

CommanderSalamander Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Ken and Alex have both supported 2wd rallying. Ken
> buying the Escort and Alex putting together the
> MaxAttack! Rookie Codriver of the Year award
> years-on-end shows they are passionate for all
> aspects of the sport. Continuous bashing them just
> proves you're jealous.
> CommanderSalamander.


Crap...I have avoided buying DC products so far and I own a pile of skate shoes and clothes for a variety of personal reasons. but if he or his rally team starts provided support for 2 wheel rally in north americia then i will buy DC shoes. i am still not wearing oneof those ridiculous DC hats.

---

Matt Smith

Racing in glorious black and red

My daily life is a Saab story (sold!)

This whole thread is so stupid that it's embarrasing! The only two people who said anything intelligent are Ted and Eric. READ THE FOLLOWING:

"Bloody hell...

Any more arguments like this and I may have to become a Block fan just to spite John .

For the record, I dislike the goofy skaterboy persona with the sideways baseball caps and goofy gang-sign-like pointy finger poses, and for god's sake someone buy the boy a razor . But, it works for him, and it has made him a lot of dough over the years.

Yes his Scooby Doo team is big money playing in a Clubman level sandbox -- but he's not offending the laws of nature or torturing puppies, why all the hate?

Are we placing the mantle of blame for the increasing costs of rally squarely on Ken's shoulders? Is there really anything wrong or is he just a convenient lightning rod?

He bought the coolest RWD toy out there, which un-named parties on here occasionally advocate, to go have fun in the woods. Oh, for shame...

Normally when a person goes off on the first stage, we express sympathy.

t"

"Me too. If any one of my offs were scrutinized as much as Ken's I'd probably be sent to remedial driver's training.

Am I a bit jealous I don't get to spend as much time in as cool cars as Ken does? Yep. But even if I did, I don't think I'd take the chances he does. I think he will continue to get faster, because you learn limits by exceeding them regularly, and he doesn't seem to be afraid of personal injury to push them.

I'm glad I'm not in the spotlight as much as he is. Autograph sessions suck...I'd rather be going over my car one last time in Parc Expose or discussing stages with the Navitron. I've paid to have professional help before. I trust my own hands and my band of gypsy crew more, and if I don't have faith in the equipment, I can't drive it as hard.

Most of the "big boy" bashing I see on here is out of jealousy. And that's perfectly natural. I'm guilty of it myself from time to time. But be careful what you wish for. The more "successful" you are, the brighter the spotlight. And the spotlight focuses on your wrongs more brightly than your rights.

Drive a mile in another man's shoes before you pass judgement. In the meantime, enjoy the fact that someone has the money and desire to commission a cool RWD Escort, can put together sponsorship deals to campaign excellent machinery, and can put on a great rally inspired show. Does it hurt the clubman? In some ways it hurts, and in some ways it helps. I don't know what the net effect is.

Lurch "

I suggest everyone else pull their heads out of their asses and count two ten before they type. Shame on you!

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

Wait are you saying there was a purpose to this thread?

---

Matt Smith

Racing in glorious black and red

My daily life is a Saab story (sold!)

I have had 2 pairs of DC shoes, and they lasted about a month a piece. Total crap. I can buy a pair of Globe Skate shoes, and abuse them for 8 months or more, and they are still in one piece.

that's good to know. I will stick with my vans and airwalks which last forever wven skating and biking. I did jus tpick up some worl industries shoes for dirt jumping.....we'll see how the work.

---

Matt Smith

Racing in glorious black and red

My daily life is a Saab story (sold!)

mothra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> that's good to know. I will stick with my vans
> and airwalks which last forever wven skating and
> biking. I did jus tpick up some worl industries
> shoes for dirt jumping.....we'll see how the work.
>
> Matt Smith
>
> Racing in glorious black and red
>
> My daily life is a Saab story


Your vans lasted biking?

My pedals ATE them alive. I wear Fivetens now. And of course, they came out with the new skate style AFTER I bought the impact low cut.... grrrr

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Dazed_Driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mothra Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> My pedals ATE them alive. I wear Fivetens now. And
> of course, they came out with the new skate style
> AFTER I bought the impact low cut.... grrrr
>


You have the OLD STYLE???!!!

And you wonder why I flip you shit when you have the old style!


> Feisty Peacock?
>
> My noodle I doodled was ate by a poodle

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.