Morison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aaron Luptak Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > - but rules is rules
>
> What rule?
>
> The car needs a windscreen when it goes through
> scrutineering. After that the organizers can
> inspect the car at will but only the chief
> scrutineer can exclude the car for safety reasons.
> (Although I suspect RA stewards and/or Hurst would
> try to intervene)
>
> I simply can't see Hurst, stewards or the chief
> scrutineer OK-ing this in lieu of a missing
> windscreen.

See it or not, it happened - I'm fairly certain that at least one of the people you mention was present. But I don't know for sure - I'm new, and just a lowly speccie/fan/worker.

---

KF7RWG
http://www.utahrallygroup.com

Ben,
Since you were actually there - who made you do this instead of running without a windscreen?

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Hurst wouldn't let us go with a destroyed / absent windscreen. This though did fit the rules.

Everyone can always analyze situations, and rules can always be put in place, but not every situation will be covered. Rules are written post incident, never before, it's the nature of the game.

Did a cracked windshield fit the rules? No.

Did no windshield fit the rules? No.

Did this? Technically, yes, but I'll admit that I wouldn't have been surprised if we were told we couldn't run.

And yes, a cop did see us transiting and literally took a double take when we were stopped at an intersection with him to the right. After he turned back with a "WTF?" expression he drove off in the other direction.

---

Winningest one-eyed co-driver in Rally America history.

Press on Regardless! Nice job getting a finish out of it. That's real rally spirit.

Why are people so quick to try and find a scrut. to blame? Lighten up! Someday, you might be the one needing a little (or a lot of) leeway and a little good karma could help.

---

Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

Rallying without a windscreen with proper eye protection (as in goggles) is way super fun fantastic. Sense of speed from wind blowing in your face, the added sound of the engine and outdoors, the perfect visibility. Of course, if you had one of the sudden poof fires like someone at the last IRC round had it'd not be much fun as all that fire and heat would be coming right towards your face...

---

Grant Hughes

tedm Wrote:
> Why are people so quick to try and find a scrut.
> to blame? Lighten up! Someday, you might be the
> one needing a little (or a lot of) leeway and a
> little good karma could help.

If I have two options available to me and the officials push me to the less safe option I am for sure going to push back.

Sounds like Hurst was there ... but in his absence I would have run without the windscreen and pointed out in the rulebook that no-one had the authority to stop me.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

I have pulled 3 cars from competition because they had badly broken windscreens and no eye protection in the car. I would let someone get back to service if they had eye protection and a badly broken/missing windscreen. I wouldn't let them leave service that way. No eye protection, no deal. Hurst is as safety minded as anyone around. If he said it was a go and the competitor was doing transit speed then fine by me. I trust Mike and obviously he trusted the competitors.

Congrats on the efforts and kinda amusing solution!

So, I've heard that some competitors keep a flat lexan cut to fit the front in there service rigs for this very reason. However, the rules say no lexan up front. If you got back to service with a broken windshield and goggles, could you duct tape the lexan windshield onto the car to run with for the remaining stages? Or is it still a no go?

Why is that rule in effect? What are the benefits of glass over lexan in the front, besides its harder to scratch glass, and the glass wont potentially bow inwards?

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

heymagic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have pulled 3 cars from competition because they
> had badly broken windscreens and no eye protection
> in the car.

How do you define eye protection?

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Morison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> How do you define eye protection?

Do squint goggle count? I usually carry a pair of those around.

Damn that is an ugly paint job - whose idea was plaid?

---

"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

wvonkessler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Damn that is an ugly paint job - whose idea was
> plaid?
>
> My opinions are my own and are not to be construed
> as representing the viewpoint of any other person
> or organization. How's that for legalese?

Und was willst du, junge? Feldgrau?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

"Rallying without a windscreen with proper eye protection (as in goggles) is way super fun fantastic. Sense of speed from wind blowing in your face, the added sound of the engine and outdoors, the perfect visibility. Of course, if you had one of the sudden poof fires like someone at the last IRC round had it'd not be much fun as all that fire and heat would be coming right towards your face..."

Sounds like snowmobiling or skiing to me. ;-)
Wind in the face. Exhilarating.

---

Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

Morison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> heymagic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have pulled 3 cars from competition because
> they
> > had badly broken windscreens and no eye
> protection
> > in the car.
>
> How do you define eye protection?

To me eye protection for a shattered windshield would be actual goggles, for no windshield just glasses. unless I see glass slivers then back to the goggles. Glass is an inert substance, once in your eyes or lungs it just sits there and does damage. In Washington state you only need glasses above 30 or 35 mph, no windshield needed. I have had competitors with heavily cracked windshields cover the inside with shipping tape and allowed that. No 2 instances will be the same.

At DooWops this year I saw Lanes Volvo after the stage he rolled on. It was a mess, deformed so wipers couldn't possibly work and glass everywhere. I asked them if they had any eye protection and another windshield in service, answer was no to both questions. So I made the hard/easy decision to pull them out. Hard because I like those guys and I know they could challenge for the win, easy also because I like those guys and don't want to see either one get injured over a preventable reason.

Back in '03/04 or so a competitor made it into service after rolling. Frickin glass slivers everywhere. They wanted to continue with the broken windshield. No friggin way...while we are standing there discussing it an EMT comes over to check them out. Co-driver say he is fine but thinks he has dust in his eyes because they are scratchy...dumbassed EMT shines a lite in his eyes and sats "you're ok"..WTF, you can see glass splinters on a wet surface like an eye with a penlight in daytime?? Bullshit! I parked their car and told the co-driver to go to the ER and get his eyes checked.

I have a friend who smashed a windshield with her face when she was 16, still had glass coming to the surface 30 years later.

Lots of factors need looked at everytime a decision to pull a competitor is made. That is an irretrievable decision. I've been around Hurst enough to know we are of like mind on most of these decisions. I trust his judgement.

Dazed_Driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, I've heard that some competitors keep a flat
> lexan cut to fit the front in there service rigs
> for this very reason. However, the rules say no
> lexan up front. If you got back to service with a
> broken windshield and goggles, could you duct tape
> the lexan windshield onto the car to run with for
> the remaining stages? Or is it still a no go?
>
> Why is that rule in effect? What are the benefits
> of glass over lexan in the front, besides its
> harder to scratch glass, and the glass wont
> potentially bow inwards?
>
> Feisty Peacock?
>
> My noodle I doodled was ate by a poodle

Yes yes, I'm reposting myself.

I'm just trying to make sure it gets seen, as I've had a couple people ask me about this and I'm curious

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.