Doivi Clarkinen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pete Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sounds beauty. Makes me miss my old
> peripheral
> > port.
> >
> > I don't understand one thing though - the
> stock
> > manual box (it was a manual box, right?) with
> a
> > 1.5 quickener spliced in is only 2.6 turns
> lock to
> > lock, which is only slightly less than the
> stock
> > P/S box which most people run without the
> pump
> > just fine. (On dirt at any speed the
> steering's
> > still too light to need more than a few
> fingers)
> >
> > Or was there some fancy funky steering arm
> thing
> > going on that made the steering faster than
> I
> > think? He sure didn't seem to be turning
> the
> > wheel very much.
> >
>
>
> You don't need to turn the wheel very much when
> you are steering with the throttle!
>
> Also the front suspension on his car is DMS struts
> for a Gen.2 RX7 with Gen.2 spindles and Turbo II
> brakes and custom made chromoly tube a-arms with a
> wider track and lengthened tie rods.
>

Did all that shit and didn't bother to use the fawkn Rack?
I know when dearest ol' Jake Himes got his MkI RX& I sorta suggested using the whole schmeer and He said his brother did just that whole crossmember rack, alloy arms and spindles, nice calipers---whole damn thing went in.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Nice!

---

Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
tie rods.
> >
>
> Did all that shit and didn't bother to use the
> fawkn Rack?
> I know when dearest ol' Jake Himes got his MkI
> RX& I sorta suggested using the whole schmeer
> and He said his brother did just that whole
> crossmember rack, alloy arms and spindles, nice
> calipers---whole damn thing went in.
>

Keep in mind we did this at my shop between Wild West rally and Prescott Forest in 2001. There wasn't time to re-engineer the whole front of the car. Andrew busted up the original front suspension at Wild West and we ended up robbing bits off Dave Hintz's parts car as it was. I did suggest that the whole front crossmember would probably go right in but there was no way there was enough time to do all that before Prescott. We were mainly fixing a broken car between events while he was on the road and doing an upgrade at the same time. BTW, he went on to finish 5th O/A at Prescott.

I love the camera setup in Havas' videos. Probably the best in-car I've seen in an amateur setup.

Great vid, the man can drive and is a blast to watch. thanks

Here is my know-it-all/armchair quarterback comment for the day;

He should have made the co-driver hold it in gear for him so he could have both on the wheel. He could have shouted at him to shift, too. Who needs paddle shifters?

Doivi Clarkinen Wrote:
>I did
> suggest that the whole front crossmember would
> probably go right in but there was no way there
> was enough time to do all that before Prescott.

It does go right in, use the original front bolts and you even get a nice caster gain.

Problem is you need to figure out how to bolt the engine in. If you're using the engine from the suspension donor, then you're golden (have to redrill the holes an inch back if you use the original front X-member bolts, BFD) but if you want to use the front cover mount then you have to figure out how to make it work with the rack in the way.

I love the Ford style engine strut things but I don't see where to put one on the right side of the engine.

BTW - Steering arms for FC are shorter, so that alone makes the steering faster.

---

Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

alkun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is my know-it-all/armchair quarterback
> comment for the day;
>
> He should have made the co-driver hold it in gear
> for him so he could have both on the wheel. He
> could have shouted at him to shift, too. Who needs
> paddle shifters?
>
>
>

But who will flip the pages?

---

rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> I know when dearest ol' Jake Himes got his MkI
> RX& I sorta suggested using the whole schmeer
> and He said his brother did just that whole
> crossmember rack, alloy arms and spindles, nice
> calipers---whole damn thing went in.
>
>

Yup. I remember seeing all that when I pulled one of his blowed up motors out of the rx7 for him.

turoc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> alkun Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Here is my know-it-all/armchair quarterback
> > comment for the day;
> >
> > He should have made the co-driver hold it in
> gear
> > for him so he could have both on the wheel.
> He
> > could have shouted at him to shift, too. Who
> needs
> > paddle shifters?
> >
> >
> >
>
> But who will flip the pages?
>

That's why god gave us teeth.

soooo whats the scrub radius

---

First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
Cars Built (2.5), Engines Blown (2) Cages Built (0) # of rotations (3.5)
Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

Gravity Fed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> soooo whats the scrub radius

OK, where the suspension pivots and where the TIRE pivots may in a GOOD car be in the same place of very close to it.
Let's start with a superior car, years ahead of the junk that 99% of youse wise guys are saddled with: The Saab 96.

Look at the piccie and draw a line passing thru the upper and lower ball joints and then continue the line down to the ground.
Now llook where the center of the tire is.
If they intersect, then thats "zero scrub radius steering" and you have nice, light accurate steering.

Now I goota go find a piccie of "old school" rwd stuff for contrast.
Be right back.

This might do:


Look at how deep the front wheel is. Most of that Wiiiiiiiide wheel is outboard of the hub. Inboard of the hub somewhere is the two balljoints the steering pivots around.
Draw a line to where the ball joint line hits the ground.
It could very well be 5-6-7" INBOARD of the center of where the WHEEL is pivoting.
That's its scrub radius.
It's a big lever that kicks and snaps and breaks thumbs and for lightweight car boys like Andrew, breaks wrists.
Especially if theres some good castor dialed in and say bump or droop steer.

Fortune has it that since Saab and Citroen way back in 1955 introduced the world to serie production cars with zero scrub radius steering, nearly everything fwd/awd and some good rwd cars such as Ford Sierra aka Xratties have gone to designs close to zero scrub radius.


This help?

>
> -------------
> "The beatings will continue until moral improves"

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2009 09:18PM by john vanlandingham.

See, and that's why we like John. He'll explain in pictures and words. My standard response was to go to google and look it up, so then I'd be like, check here to find out what scrub radius is.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=scrub+radius

By the way, that's one of my new favorite and most used sites. Can't even tell you how many messages and such I get each day that are answered with a simple search in google.

---

Grant Hughes

NoCoast Wrote:

Damn Grant I wasn't done yet!!


-------------------------------------------------------
> See, and that's why we like John. He'll explain
> in pictures and words. My standard response was
> to go to google and look it up, so then I'd be
> like, check here to find out what scrub radius is.
>
>
>
> By the way, that's one of my new favorite and most
> used sites. Can't even tell you how many messages
> and such I get each day that are answered with a
> simple search in google.
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Fucking right your not. I want to see the old American and I want an explanation of what's desirable and why for a rally car.

---

Grant Hughes

For FWD, especially on uneven surfaces, scrub radius is very important because as each wheel gains or loses traction from side to side, the side with more grip will try to drive "around" the scrub radius and the result is often perceived as "torque-steer" or the wheels driving away from the side with more grip.

It's not as problematic on RWD cars, since the tires aren't fighting each other for acceleration. Hence, why you see the far inside offset (deep dish) on RWD cars (Porsche, Mustangs, etc.) and far outside offset on FWD and 4WD cars.

As tires get narrower for ice, it leads to some unusual looking wheels to maintain the proper offset:


Scrub radius isn't the only contributor to torque steer, however. Hub level offset plays an even bigger role.

If you draw the same line through the centerline of tire and the same line through the steering axis (top and bottom ball joints...or top strut mount and lower ball joint for strutty stuff), you get two lines that, even with zero scrub radius, will make a V in the front view of the car.

If you now look at that V from the front and intersect a line that goes through the axle, and you measure the distance along that line from one side of the V to the other, you are measuring hub level offset.

While scrub radius acts as a lever by applying force against the road surface with the tire, hub level offset acts as a lever through the halfshaft and will have even more effect on torque steer. You can even design the suspension to have negative scrub radius to help counter act hub level offset forces.

Sorry no pics, Grant.

---

Lurch
Eric Burmeister
The west coast...of Michigan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2009 10:44PM by Lurch.