I believe I just got learned

good info/explanations

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Zap zap my ass...

slidewayswrx Wrote:
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> I believe I just got learned
>
> good info/explanations

Patrique, that's one of the little things that I mean when I say the Xratty really is a better car than the 240.
Truth is though with PS in the Volvo none of us will ever be able to quantify the difference.

Better but.....so what.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Eric, I was always wondering what you were talking about with respect to front geometry. All that just made a load of sense...

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

So Lurch, increased negative camber and/or ball joint extenders like these would counteract some torque steer by changing the hub-level-offset??

http://www.pmwltd.com/grfx/extenders.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v639/fopeano/Franz%20GTI/201126_1013109409848698746_vl.jpg


Not that I think either is a good idea for rally.....

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____________________________________________________________-

One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf

Josh,

Negative tire camber can be gotten a couple ways, eh?

One way affects HLO more than another. No matter where you are pivoting from, adding negative camber, the way I see it, will almost always INCREASE scrub radius and contribute to torque steer.

And yes, those ball joint extenders, it would seem to me, would increase HLO and increase torque steer affect. (The axle line is creeping up the V).

Negative camber is implemented to try to keep the wheels in best contact with the road as the car is cornering/leaning, but as far as I see it, it hurts you with regard to torque steer.

None of this is of too much concern for the average sub-200hp, normally aspirated, no torque FWD rally car.

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Lurch
Eric Burmeister
The west coast...of Michigan



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2009 04:32PM by Lurch.

And then there's the RevoKnuckle.



They call out "Kingpin offset" instead of hub level offset, but it's almost the same thing. HLO is the horizontal distance along the axle centerline from the "wheel centre line" to the "kingpin axis." You can see how the HLO is much shorter on the Revoknuckle thanks to the steering axis being placed totally inside the wheel.

Now imagine what happens when you put coilovers on your car that hang down past the top of the tire. And then you put wider wheels and tires on for a tarmac rally, but you don't really have space (due to your fancy springs) to keep the same wheel offset and let the tires creep in on the inside as much as the creep out on the outside. So you grab those wheel spacers and space them out.

Now sketch that in...what just happened to your scrub radius? Your HLO?



There's a MS3 in Germany with one.

This is what Ford uses on the Focus RS.

I'm thinking about making a set.

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Lurch
Eric Burmeister
The west coast...of Michigan



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2009 05:09PM by Lurch.

I'm still wrapping head around hub level offset.
Here's another good one.
What' changing the kingpin axis do for a car?

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Grant Hughes

Oh wow, suddenly the influx of weird double ball joint suspensions makes a whole lot of sense. It allows them to have a simple knuckle while being able to put the steering axis wherever they want it to be.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

wow that looks disturbingly the mistubishi awd stuff...

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First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
Cars Built (2.5), Engines Blown (2) Cages Built (0) # of rotations (3.5)
Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

Pete Wrote:
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> Oh wow, suddenly the influx of weird double ball
> joint suspensions makes a whole lot of sense. It
> allows them to have a simple knuckle while being
> able to put the steering axis wherever they want
> it to be.

bingo

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Lurch
Eric Burmeister
The west coast...of Michigan

Gravity Fed Wrote:
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> wow that looks disturbingly the mistubishi awd
> stuff...

????

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Lurch
Eric Burmeister
The west coast...of Michigan

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Doivi Clarkinen Wrote:
> -
> >
> > It was also the reason he crashed while
> running in
> > 4th overall position. He's got a steering
> > quickener for the lousy RX7 steering box and
> the
> > kickback after landing from a jump or
> something
> > broke his wrist (or sprained it, I'm not
> sure) and
> > he went off.
>
> This COULD be an educational discussion for the
> young 'uns.
>
> This SHOULD illustrate why PS is so desirable,

> John Vanlandingham
> Sleezattle, WA, USA
>
> Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
>
> www.jvab.f4.ca

So true about the PS. I just finished my rally Civic and took it out for a shakedown at a Rallycross. As I had expected, the PS needs to be improved upon, especially with its 2.2 turns lock-to-lock. It kicked back so violently that the horn button ground vibrated loose and I had to keep reminding myself not to wrap my thumbs around the wheel. I will start with the used pump and go from there.

I should post about the build-so far this car has turned out better than I ever expected and I learned so much in the process.

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Civic Rally Car