Rally America 2010... Euro Rallycross

Morison Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> john vanlandingham Wrote:
> > > Much of the rest of what you say has
> some
> > merit.
> >
> > All of it has merit, you're simply trolling
> like
> > the true asshole faggot you are.
>
> Oh, I forgot ... Every opinion is valid.
>
> > ... you want to attack somebody who did more
> before 30
> > than you'll ever understand to lamely try to
> > imagine you're arguing as equals.
>
> Dude, nothing I said was an attack.
> For fuck's sake I actually was playing nice this
> time and not taking a kick at you for the way you
> said what you said, which was your standard
> obnoxious self aggrandizing bullshit. (stating the
> bleeding obvious like you were some visionary)
>
> > You aren't arguing just insulting so don't
> whine
> > that you're given back EXACTLY what you give
> > here.
> Insulting? By pointing out that anyone who can
> compare the 2010 schedule to the 2009 schedule can
> see that the 6 events in 2010 occur on the same
> time period as the first 6 events of 2009?
>
> > Fuck off.
> No.
>
> In my apparently worthless yet equally valid
> opinion, your comments that have marginal, at
> best, merit are:
>
> "Track events de-emphasize the driver."
> True to a point but the driver, their judgment and
> conditioning will still be major factors in the
> end results. I'm not saying you're wrong just that
> it isn't as black and white as you suggest.
>
> "... but its still how much for a so called
> "National" entry fee?"
> Irrelevant to the discussion.
> Rally America is still loosing money in a big way
> with the Rally America Championship and it brings
> a lot of infrastructure and service to the
> national events when they roll into town. (some
> needed, some not. Some welcome, some not)
>
> "Never trust a Sanctioning body,"
> Never say never amigo.
> In many ways competitors HAVE to trust sanctioning
> bodies to set the right standards and make the
> right decisions for the sport. If you don't like
> the direction being taken, be proactive and
> supportive about getting the right decisions made.
>
>
> "especially when it's a privately held
> Corporation."
> without a doubt good reason to look at their
> actions with a more critical eye but in some ways
> a privately held corporation is even more likely
> to look at the desires of the stakeholders (its
> clients.) We get that you don't like RA. They
> aren't evil, horrible people. (then again, neither
> am I)
>
> "How many seasons till the whole "Rally"
> Championship for RA is done in parking lots?"
> USRC was the first sanctioning body to have a
> 'national' run wholly in a stadium... and at that
> event the 'first' woman to win a national as a
> driver.
>
> Havir has put a ton of his own money and Niday,
> Hurst and the rest of the RA crew have invested
> years of time to build rallying in the woods into
> something sustainable over the long haul. I
> seriously doubt they would just abandon it in
> favour of the quick buck. (Havir doesn't need the
> quick buck)
>
> John, participate in the conversation or go away.
> Your crass, homophobic name-calling is really,
> really tiresome.
>


Touched a nerve did I?

The above was participation, why did you initially have to be the asshole putz that you strive to be and dismiss everything?
What I wrote looks ahead to the problems that adding tack events will bring which it seems some people are not thinking about.
Then again maybe you with all your deep connections to the pulse of the sport can scare up a couple of mega horse power cars, so you didn't think about how much crashing into each other occurs, how many engines let go, gearboxes splatter, not an important thing, not valid.


Back to the question of "Valid" it seems.

The funny thing is in your last bit you used a word that I've pushed for 25 years in THIS sport, putz, and that's sustainable.
The model that has been pushed for the last 10 years and particularly the RA model of fill the cameras----when and if they're around----with "past sell by date" so called "extreme" "stars" is not sustainable.
How can you even suggest it is sustainable with the catastrophic decline in entries in so called "Championship" events.
Sustainable with just a half dozen cars?
Saying that somehow shows you're not serious, or not sober, or perhaps simply insane.

I know BC is famous for lax dope laws, but man you're somking something a lot stronger than bud in your cheerleading.

Sustainable is the reason I push the very specific types of cars i push, and why this discussion forum was founded: to have a place relatively free of discussion about the ultra-rich crews playing and discuss the way ORDINARY people's SUSTAINABLE participation might be realised.



A final note Morison: YOU will have no standing here to tell ANYBODY to shut up and go away. YOU particularly who only comes to argue.
You need to learn your place.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Mark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i agree with jon's first post.
>
> and for those of you that think rallycross is
> exciting to watch on tv i encourage you to try to
> watch a full episode from the uk.
>
> it's still boring!
>
> it doesn't matter that they have way more hp or
> awesome set-ups, the race is basically decided
> within the first lap. and it seems to combat this
> there is a lap of your choosing where you have to
> go around an extra piece of course so that you
> slot in somewhere different. its still pretty damn
> boring, and i like watching racing, but i couldn't
> hardly get through an episode.
>
> i think that rally-america may have screwed over a
> lot of people. i know ojibwe was an amazing event
> to even spectate and it seems like it may not be
> coming back. also rally colorado is in flux now
> because of this and feels like a big fuck you to
> those of us living in colorado to me.
>
> i also think it's hilarious about how people
> protested saying that the xgames didn't have that
> much effect on entries for the last 3 events, yet
> these are the 3 that were cut (seemingly without
> reason other than the xgames).
>
> even without factoring in where the national
> events are, i would think a better championship
> could be crafted by making the season last a full
> 12 months so that cars could be fix and funding
> could be found between events.
>
> i hope colorado, ojibwe, lspr, and other events go
> nasa.
>
> "Never trust a Sanctioning body, never, especially
> when it's a privately held Corporation."
>
> -Mark
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> www.coloradorallycup.org


Thanks Mark for some clear honest opinions.
As somebody said somewhere "how can they dump Ojibwe and keep STPR?"

Let's hope the organisers in the shat upon events aren't too stuck in their ways and get talks going with NASA.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:

> Then again maybe you with all your deep
> connections to the pulse of the sport can scare up
> a couple of mega horse power cars, so you didn't
> think about how much crashing into each other
> occurs, how many engines let go, gearboxes
> splatter, not an important thing, not valid.

John, you completely missed that I agreed with your comments in that regard. The people that think that the 'euro rally cross' will be a place for the back-yard budget teams are fooling themselves. It will be a haven for high-dollar sponsored teams - that should be clear to anybody.

> How can you even suggest it is sustainable with
> the catastrophic decline in entries in so called
> "Championship" events.
> Sustainable with just a half dozen cars?
> Saying that somehow shows you're not serious, or
> not sober, or perhaps simply insane.

I'm not saying that at all. Sustainability is a tough nut to crack at the best of times but without some larger visibility and public awareness, growth will be limited. (Note that Canadian Rally has been televised for all but one of the past 17 years or so and most of the people getting involved were introduced to the sport by that broadcast.)

> A final note Morison: YOU will have no standing
> here to tell ANYBODY to shut up and go away. YOU
> particularly who only comes to argue.
> You need to learn your place.

Because I bring a different viewpoint than you and because I don't always agree with you, I only come here to argue? Because you only know how to spew bile at me in a knee-jerk reaction, you are adding to the discussion?

Give it a rest John.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Nothing against Euro-style rally-X, but this all reminds me of SCCA'a "Circuit Rally".

450HP two wheel drive cars. Sounds like a hoot, but has that been thought out?

The late in the season organisors must be PISSED!

Who at RA puts these press releases together?

I wonder who will be left to run, if SRT-USA's contract is not renewed. It sounds like Block is exploring other options. I think he has the motivation and $ to put something together.

---

Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Morison Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > john vanlandingham Wrote:
> > > Schedule all stacked up in the spring
> to
> > early
> > > summer is going to force an awful lot
> of
> > money to
> > > be spent in a shorter period of time
> but
> > hey,
> >
> > The six events happen across the same time
> span
> > that those same six events would have
> happened
> > anyway.
> >
> > Much of the rest of what you say has some
> merit.
>
>
> All of it has merit, you're simply trolling like
> the true asshole faggot you are.
>
> I'm told you're friendly in real life, but I think
> you show your true colors here with the
> pseudo-anonymity of the internet..
> In motorsport you are a "never was anything", and
> you want to attack somebody who did more before 30
> than you'll ever understand to lamely try to
> imagine you're arguing as equals.
> You aren't.
> You aren't arguing just insulting so don't whine
> that you're given back EXACTLY what you give
> here.
> Fuck off.
>
> John Vanlandingham
> Sleezattle, WA, USA
>
> Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
>
> www.jvab.f4.ca

Oh give it a rest John, he was actually agreeing with you this time. Calm down, take a deep breath and actually read what he wrote this time, instead of just seeing his name and automatically responding with juvenile insults. There was no attacking or insulting in Keith's post. Maybe look in the mirror before lecturing others on their "true colors." You really are starting to look crazy on here, John. (starting?)

john vanlandingham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The appearance of speed depends on speed time
> distance that the viewer is from what they're
> watching, and the size of what they're watching. A
> 747 doing 450mph viewed from 5 miles away doesn't
> look too fast, and a 747 doing 160mph from 150
> years away appears to be floating nearly still.
>
> Any rally car once up to speed looks fast at 70mph
> from 10 feet away.
>
> But ......the current restricted turbo 4wd cars in
> North America viewed from grandstands and on a
> tight inside a stadium type course I believe are
> going to look agonizingly slow.
>
> Even the looniest of European Rallycross, the real
> stuff with 550-650 bhp motors and drivers with a
> couple of decades of world's top experience don't
> look all that insane from a distance or on TV.
>
> We have neither the machinery or the drivers at
> even half that level.
>
> Realistically, anyway.
>
> As for good news, how many spare motors, spare
> close ratio boxes, spare ROLLER BODYSHELLS does
> anybody have just laying around cause those real
> rallycross guys blow shit up, break shit and bang
> up the panels constantly.
>
> Let's see, who has extra complete high spec cars?
> Who? WHO? WHO!!!???
>
>
> And tracks?
> The better Euro Rallycross tracks are BIG trackes,
> and speeds will hit 70-75, and the cars will do
> that in 3-or so seconds from a standing start.
> Any track based sport is FAR more emphasising
> tailored vehicle and tailored set up and then
> PRACTICE.
>
> Which is diametrically opposed to rally as it has
> been know most of its history---don't be dumb
> asses and suggest I have overlooked how much
> pre-event testing for correct suspension set ups
> and gearing, but when the "course " takes 5 hours
> to do it is quite another thing than when there's
> a little 1 mile course that takes 1:45 to do again
> and again and again-----and far less emphasises
> THE DRIVER, and hence is that much LESS
> interesting.
>


You're right. We can't do it exactly like Yurrip right off the bat so we shouldn't even try to get something started. What's the point? How could I be so stupid? What was I thinking?

Doivi Clarkinen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kudos to RA for having the balls to implement real
> European style rallycross! Let's hope it expands
> and they introduce entry level classes and a
> feeder series, though the key to that is finding
> more venues around the country which might prove a
> challenge. But you gotta start somewhere and NJMP
> should make a good venue. Too bad it's on the
> wrong side of the country, I'd be all over that.
> This should be very popular and exciting and lends
> itself well to TV. And make X-Games just a stupid
> memory.
>
> As for the second part all I have to say is, they
> dropped Ojibwe but kept STPR? WTF?



Season needs to wrap up at X Games.

If you were after X Games and couldn't move your event you were out, or so it seems.

I know Rally CO has a 3-5 week window for their event, much later and you get into snow, much sooner and you get into torrential rain season...

Even if RA had or hadn't offered them a slot in the calendar if they could have moved their date it is unlikely they could have moved their date to before the end of July...

What if RA became the sole sponsor of a euro style rally cross series, which finishes at X games, and NASA took over stage rally? Do you think that would be good?

(and I mean in a only one stage rally sanctioning body... NOT in a "RA is evil" kind of way... that argument is played out and tiresome to hear)

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

That is not an unlikely outcome for the state of rally in the US Timm.

This will help a few people get some extra sponsorship dollars if it can be successful. Not necessarily for them to do any additional stage rallies, but at least they might be able to get money.

This does lower costs for Rally America. Three less events to get all their shit and gear to.

The other thing to consider is the damage to those events that were dropped. I'll use Colorado as my example. In it's first years as a Club Rally, it was lower key, but always had a cool Parc Expose downtown and a fun afterparty. They had a decent group of sponsors supporting the event, most of whom still seem to do. So this year there is two huge Parc Exposes both nights and tons of spectators, beer carts getting sold out of beer, live band, etc. Huge ROI to their local sponsors. Will those local sponsors still be willing to support the event if it becomes a regional rally? It won't provide the same ROI so they won't be likely to be willing to give as much as this year. Will the organizers be able to have an event with less entries paying smaller entry fees, and less sponsorship dollars?

---

Grant Hughes

I have a feeling Anders' is going to spend alot more time on the phone this week.

---

Grant Hughes

Kevin please explain why the "Season needs to wrap up at X Games."

I don't think the X-games is a part of any season.

---

Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

Euro rally cross... it looks just like Xbox or Play Station, thats why its important to have it end with a grand showdown at the x games.

The truth is that rally doesn't work well on Tee-Vee, unless you have helicopters chasing cars and two dozen camera people. Watching Euro-rally cross on the tube is slightly entertaining, but I wouldn't enter one: if someone punted into my precious volvo on the first turn hole shot, I'd give up and go back to bicycles.

The idea that TV coverage is what is going to "save rally" is just crap.

I'll tell you what would be cool, I think its called "Volks rally". Perhaps those who know can fill in the details here. Its Euro rally cross with a $500 limit on cars. Might force people to figure out how to make stuff for themseves, or for cheap, rather than just shovelling money down the hopper. Plus, FUN FUN FUN! for drivers.

alkun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Euro rally cross... it looks just like Xbox or
> Play Station, thats why its important to have it
> end with a grand showdown at the x games.
>
> The truth is that rally doesn't work well on
> Tee-Vee, unless you have helicopters chasing cars
> and two dozen camera people. Watching Euro-rally
> cross on the tube is slightly entertaining, but I
> wouldn't enter one: if someone punted into my
> precious volvo on the first turn hole shot, I'd
> give up and go back to bicycles.
>
> The idea that TV coverage is what is going to
> "save rally" is just crap.
>
> I'll tell you what would be cool, I think its
> called "Volks rally". Perhaps those who know can
> fill in the details here. Its Euro rally cross
> with a $500 limit on cars. Might force people to
> figure out how to make stuff for themseves, or for
> cheap, rather than just shovelling money down the
> hopper. Plus, FUN FUN FUN! for drivers.

That "volks" rally was what Captain Slow ran on Top gear, right? While he tried to decide if lining all his air vents up was Finnish? lol

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Here's the link to Cap'n Slow:

---

Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

alkun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The idea that TV coverage is what is going to
> "save rally" is just crap.
>
> I'll tell you what would be cool, I think its
> called "Volks rally". Perhaps those who know can
> fill in the details here. Its Euro rally cross
> with a $500 limit on cars. Might force people to
> figure out how to make stuff for themseves, or for
> cheap, rather than just shovelling money down the
> hopper. Plus, FUN FUN FUN! for drivers.

I believe you mean "Folkrace"
Wikipedia actually has an entry:
Folkrace is a popular, inexpensive, and entry-level form of Swedish rallycross that originally came from Finland, where it was called Jokamiesluokka. The sport also exists in Norway and Denmark, where it is known as Bilcross and Folkerace respectively.

The races are run on special gravel or tarmac tracks, 800 meters in length. The tracks are designed to limit the top speed to 80 km/h. The competitions are divided into different classes depending on age and gender. Participants can be as young as 15 years of age.

The race is divided into different heats with usually six cars. The driver to win a race is awarded seven points, second five points, third four points and so on. When all the heats have been driven, the total score is calculated and the top six drivers get to race in the A final, the next six in the B final and so on. The winner of the A final wins the event.

To maintain its inexpensive nature, there is a rule on price. The races are run in standard cars, but participants are generally free to choose as long as they meet certain minimum safety regulations. Anyone can place a fix-price bid on any car, the buyer is then chosen randomly. The fixed price is 6500 SEK (ca USD 1000). Refusing to sell is grounds for having one's competition license revoked. Not included in the sale is personal equipment such as seat and safety harness. This type of system eliminates the motivation for sinking extensive amounts of work and money into a folkrace car.

Because old road cars are used up in folkrace, retro and antique car enthusiasts talk about "the folkrace death": The folkrace expend many cars that are too old to be considered usable for everyday driving but too new to have reached the status as a "veteran" or "antique".
[edit] External links

* Ola's Bilsport Sida
* Eriks folkracesida
* http://www.sbf.se/info/folkrace

To give you an idea of the popularity, I say afew years ago when searching for the excellect series of drawings they use on cage rules a list of Licened Scrutineers and it was 1200 names long. Memeory says that in little Sweden with now 9 million population there were something around 16,000 licence holders.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.